Singapore XDA-1 / USP-1 testing gig

[wizardofoz]

The tower of power is ready with guns blazing for tomorrows little gathering 8)

See below for details of the gig...sorry the phone pic is a bit grainy.

gallery.me.com/zwizardofoz/100041/Tower-of-power/web.jpg?ver=12917307580001

The HP box is not HP its a DIY AB in/out to ABC out/in that will independently switch all individual speaker wires without any bridged lines - the advantages of DIY

The units from the top down are

XDA-1 DAC
ERC-1 CD
Speaker/AMP switch
UPA-2 2 Channel 185W into 4ohms L/R B amp
UPA-1 1 Channel 350W into 4ohms L A amp
UPA-1 1 Channel 350W into 4ohms R A amp
UPA-1 1 Channel 350W into 4ohms Sub amp for a bazooka tube when running the ERM-1's

Speakers
A Klipsch KG4.5
B Emotiva ERM-1
C JBL L100T3

There will also be a benchmark DAC on hand
A Squeezebox 3
USB connected MacBook
USP-1
RCA 4:1 selector

Maybe a few other things

Will also be showing off my Pluto's and AuraSound Bass Shakers

[Chuck Elliot]

How are you handling the XDA-1 volume control issue?

XDA-1 -> UPA-1s -> KG4.5s has got to be a sensitive system?

[wizardofoz]

Dec 7, 2010 10:05:52 GMT -5 Chuck Elliot said:

How are you handling the XDA-1 volume control issue?

XDA-1 -> UPA-1s -> KG4.5s has got to be a sensitive system?

In my gainclone setup it seems rather sensitive, the KG4.5s on the UPA-1's seem quite well behaved...will post more one the day is done...the ERM's lack the bottom end of the KG's .. as for the JBL's... havent got them out of hybernation yet...

Its late here so have to keep the db's down to a dull roar

[louco73]

Four gentlemen got together today for a very long lunch at Singapore's biggest Emotiva fan's place (wizardofoz) to check out the XDA-1 with a combination of amps, transports, pre-amps and speakers. I'm going to summarize the tests we performed and our findings, of which we all concurred.

Standard disclaimer about these opinions being subjective from four gentlemen using the equipment at hand. Your mileage may vary!

First some photos:










The first test we did was to compare the following two paths:
ERC-1 -> Coaxial -> XDA-1 -> Balanced Connection -> UPA-1
ERC-1 -> Optical -> XDA-1 -> Balanced Connection -> UPA-1

We all found that the coaxial connection offered a fuller and warmer sound, that we preferred over the optical connection.

The next comparison was of the following four paths:
ERC-1 -> Coaxial -> XDA-1 -> Balanced Connection -> UPA-1
ERC-1 -> Coaxial -> XDA-1 -> RCA Connection -> UPA-1
ERC-1 -> Coaxial -> XDA-1 -> RCA Connection -> USP-1 -> UPA-1
ERC-1 -> RCA Connection -> USP-1 -> UPA-1

None of us could discern a difference between these paths. This is with one of us switching the two switches on the back of the UPA-1s simultaneously, so there was an immediate change.

The next comparison was with the older Oppo DV-983's analogue output from an SACD:
Oppo -> RCA Connection -> USP-1 -> UPA-1
ERC-1 -> RCA Connection -> USP-1 -> UPA-1

We found the analogue output of the Oppo to be quite harsh compared to the ERC-1, with the highs being too forward and intense. The bass with the ERC-1 was much better and the overall sound was warmer and more relaxing to listen to.

Next was my personal test to see if the new XDA-1 could compete with my now quite old (5 years) Benchmark DAC-1.
ERC-1 -> Coaxial -> XDA-1 -> Balanced Connection -> UPA-1
ERC-1 -> Optical -> XDA-1 -> RCA Connection -> UPA-1
ERC-1 -> Coaxial -> Benchmark -> Balanced Connection -> UPA-1
ERC-1 -> Optical -> Benchmark -> RCA Connection -> UPA-1

This was quite an amazing result for the new XDA-1 where there was no detectable difference between any of the above combinations. I have to add a caveat that we used the variable output of the Benchmark, which I consider to be inferior to the constant output. We will be testing the XDA-1 at my place to compare with the Benchmark's more favourable setup soon.

We also tested the performance of the UPA-1s vs a UPA-2 and we all agreed that using the UPA-1s resulted in more detail, clarity and headroom.

As for the speakers at hand we had Klipsch KG4.5, Plutos (made by wizardofoz), Emotiva ERM-1s and some Bose cubes (for the fun of it). For some more fun there was a car subwoofer, powered from a UPA-1, used to give the smaller speakers a bit of oomph.

If you listened to the Plutos without hearing the Klipcsh you would be impressed by the sound stage and clarity. It's only when you switch to the Klipsch that you realise the difference in bass response. The four of us all appeared to be bass junkies and therefore preferred the Klipsch speakers overall.

The ERM-1s are not too bad for their size and their price, but clearly lack the bass response that we all love and were outclassed in this company.

The Bose - well they sounded ok if you don't mind vocals with no warmth, no bass response, and no highs.

As always, it's great to meet fellow forumers and Emotiva fans. We had a great time comparing our experience with different gear and listening to the equipment at hand. I highly recommend everyone to do this more often!

[shawmcbigdis]

Louco,

From your review it seems you are saying that none of you could tell the difference between the ERC direct to USP and ERC to XDA to USP. Or did I read that wrong?

I'm actually coming up with pretty much the same conclusions. I can't really hear a difference between ERC to my onkyo and ERC to XDA direct to UPA. I will write up my own full review tomorrow, going to bed now.

[monkumonku]

Dec 9, 2010 1:07:48 GMT -5 shawmcbigdis said:

Louco,

From your review it seems you are saying that none of you could tell the difference between the ERC direct to USP and ERC to XDA to USP. Or did I read that wrong?

I'm actually coming up with pretty much the same conclusions. I can't really hear a difference between ERC to my onkyo and ERC to XDA direct to UPA. I will write up my own full review tomorrow, going to bed now.

Well I was only able to do very limited listening last night. I had the ERC-1 analog connected to the USP-1, and the ERC-1 coax digital connected to the XDA-1 which was in turn connected to the USP-1. That way I was able to switch back and forth instantly. The only thing is that the XDA-1 route was very slightly lower in volume than the ERC-1 direct route. My first impressions were that the bass was tighter and more structured using the XDA-1, and also that the XDA-1 was a bit less forward in the mid/upper midrange. However, upon switching back and forth, I really couldn't validate either impression. To me, it was more like listening to the track, then muting it for a second and then unmuting it while listening using the same equipment. There was no real difference I could discern.

That was done by only testing two CD tracks, however.. Diana Krall's I Love Being Here With You from her Live in Paris CD, and Santana's studio version of Europa. While it seemed the bass was better using the XDA-1, repeated switching back and forth did not bear out that impression. This was done with both speakers (Mirage OMD-15 plus sub) and headphones (Grado 325is), same results.

I need to do a lot more listening, which I am very much looking forward to doing! ;D I'll report back later..

[sharkman]

It's nice to get people's impressions as they experiment. I've not tried the XDA with a pre-amp yet, but I did have a noticable improvement going ERC-XDA-XPA3 from the previous ERC-Denon 3803-XPA. More accurate bass, detail in mids and highs. If only the volume would work better.

[wizardofoz]

Dec 9, 2010 1:07:48 GMT -5 shawmcbigdis said:

Louco,

From your review it seems you are saying that none of you could tell the difference between the ERC direct to USP and ERC to XDA to USP. Or did I read that wrong?

I'm actually coming up with pretty much the same conclusions. I can't really hear a difference between ERC to my onkyo and ERC to XDA direct to UPA. I will write up my own full review tomorrow, going to bed now.

No you read that right...we did have the XDA up at 80 on the volume for the tests that involved the USP connections

Coax was the better of the ERC and XDA combo but the diff between the XDA RCA and bal was negligible to the UPA-1...as noted this might be different to an XPA-1 due to the fully differential design.

Still a great time we had doing all this...

[Confused]

Some say it's better paired with the USP, some say no difference with USP. Any other opinions? On the fence here.

[rockguitar]

Dec 10, 2010 9:26:29 GMT -5 rockguitar said:

"Next was my personal test to see if the new XDA-1 could compete with my now quite old (5 years) Benchmark DAC-1.
ERC-1 -> Coaxial -> XDA-1 -> Balanced Connection -> UPA-1
ERC-1 -> Optical -> XDA-1 -> RCA Connection -> UPA-1
ERC-1 -> Coaxial -> Benchmark -> Balanced Connection -> UPA-1
ERC-1 -> Optical -> Benchmark -> RCA Connection -> UPA-1

This was quite an amazing result for the new XDA-1 where there was no detectable difference between any of the above combinations. I have to add a caveat that we used the variable output of the Benchmark, which I consider to be inferior to the constant output. We will be testing the XDA-1 at my place to compare with the Benchmark's more favourable setup soon."

I agree about the Benchmark's volume control. I felt it softens the sound. I used a DACT stepped attenuator for my volume control when I had the DAC1, and felt that sounded much cleaner in my system.

[corgidog59]

So, is the XDA-1 a keeper for you all? Is a hit or a miss?

[louco73]

Dec 10, 2010 9:50:04 GMT -5 corgidog59 said:

So, is the XDA-1 a keeper for you all? Is a hit or a miss?

From my perspective, based on the initial tests, I think if someone needs a DAC then the XDA-1 offers great value for money.

If you already have a DAC then I think reading what other people with your DAC have said about the XDA-1 would make sense. If you are lucky to be in the USA you can always use the 30 day period to evaluate it.

Once we have done further testing in my own environment then I'll have more to say on the final word against the Benchmark. Even then, you are paying a fraction of the cost for the XDA-1 to get something with equivalent or near equivalent performance to the Benchmark (based on our tests so far). That's a pretty good deal.

[wizardofoz]

I am keeping mine but I'm a fanboy too.

I like it for a number of reasons

But I am also interested to see how it performs with an XPA-1 combo as well as compared to other Dac's

More updates will follow as time and tests permit

[wizardofoz]

Sometimes the info needs a bump