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Post by ajani on Dec 16, 2010 14:07:45 GMT -5
Where is overseas, I migth help you, Marco Jamaica |
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Post by ajani on Dec 16, 2010 14:11:21 GMT -5
Ajani, have you tried using different power cables? I know some gear is sensitive to those kind of tweaks. Also, is there a perceptible burn in with time where it does smooth out? Nope... I expect a product to sound good from the start, then I can look for tweaks to make it sound even better... I'm not into trying to compensate for bad sound upfront with tweaks... My hope is that the XDA-1 will smooth out with time... |
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Post by airliner on Dec 16, 2010 15:19:39 GMT -5
Where is overseas, I migth help you, Marco Jamaica Sorry, I thought it was the old continent, thiw way it is too far for me. |
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Post by merlinwerks on Dec 16, 2010 16:01:54 GMT -5
An interesting assumption made here: That an instantaneous switch is the best way to test for differences... Is it really? If I show you 2 pictures that are almost identical except for one small difference, is the best way to determine that difference to do a quick back and forth between the two pics? The first time I tried the XDA-1 in a quick back and forth with the DAC1, I thought it was pretty close and was very impressed (as seen in the preliminary reviews I posted on it), however after 2 weeks of having it in my system, I find it bright and somewhat irritating... Of course there is no absolutely right way, but I do believe it is much better than listening to A, taking 30-40 secs to swap cables then listening to "B", then trying to discern differences. Relative to your analogy, if the difference is that small and subtle then for me there is not much difference. As far as your own DAC comparison, I would think that if the XDA-1 is now bright enough to be nearly irritating, then it should still be apparent in a quick back and forth. If not, the brightness is most likely coming from the piece of gear between the ears ;D All IMHO of course. |
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Post by ajani on Dec 16, 2010 16:29:12 GMT -5
An interesting assumption made here: That an instantaneous switch is the best way to test for differences... Is it really? If I show you 2 pictures that are almost identical except for one small difference, is the best way to determine that difference to do a quick back and forth between the two pics? The first time I tried the XDA-1 in a quick back and forth with the DAC1, I thought it was pretty close and was very impressed (as seen in the preliminary reviews I posted on it), however after 2 weeks of having it in my system, I find it bright and somewhat irritating... Of course there is no absolutely right way, but I do believe it is much better than listening to A, taking 30-40 secs to swap cables then listening to "B", then trying to discern differences. Relative to your analogy, if the difference is that small and subtle then for me there is not much difference. As far as your own DAC comparison, I would think that if the XDA-1 is now bright enough to be nearly irritating, then it should still be apparent in a quick back and forth. If not, the brightness is most likely coming from the piece of gear between the ears ;D All IMHO of course. Certainly a quick switch is better than taking a minute or 2 to switch cables and return to the listening position, but I don't see it as superior to an extended listening period with a component... Let's assume the brightness is "between my ears", then what difference would a quick A/B make? If I'm convinced I hear the difference when I listen long term, then I won't be able to enjoy the product regardless of what a blind test said... Which is another limitation of that testing methodology btw... And considering the cost of a psychiatrist, it would probably be cheaper just to buy the component I prefer than to seek therapy to stop me from hearing differences... But for the record: the irritating sound is not an immediate ear crippler... So I can listen for a little while before it starts being annoying... quick back and forth will only identify the difference if I keep at it for a long time (and yes I've tried and found that to be the case)... Whereas without the back and forth I can notice it much quicker, while just relaxing at the listening position (or the other room for that matter)... |
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Erwin.BE
Emo VIPs 
It's the room, stupid!
Posts: 2,269
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Post by Erwin.BE on Dec 16, 2010 17:33:25 GMT -5
I have a subscription to HiFi Choice but didn't get it yet "this" month (Jan 2011...). While I enjoy reading it, I don't completely trust them. The Brit brands get the upper hand a bit to often to be believable. Anyways, just to say that claims for this or claims to that are just that, claims. Be it from professional reviewers or from actual users. Difficult to see the hidden agenda. A user may post a favourable review to please a friend or because he/she is a chauvinist, a pro may also plug the brands that spend on adds. There's one I trust 100% and that's The Audio Critic, Peter Aczel. He likes the Benchmark very much. Therefore, I was determined to get the DAC1 HDR a year ago. But decided to wait for the XDA-1 when it was anounced. But this Summer, a Weiss DAC2 for DAC1 HDR money had my name on it... I am very happy with my investment, but that's just my claim! It's ironic that you say HiFi Choice gives the brit brands the upper hand, when in their conclusion for the test they had to admit that the best 3 DACs in the test (all scored 5 stars) were the American ones: Benchmark, PS Audio & Lavry... I don't take the opinion of any reviewer (whether pro or consumer) as gospel... At the end of the day it's really just an opinion... The audio critic is great for measurements, but even that assumes that we are able to measure everything that contributes to sound quality, which I don't believe... Last month, the two UK multidisk players did win, even if they measured worse than others. It's like that more often than not. Mind you, these blokes probably just discovered DAC's. There's not much copy about computer based playback in the magazine, is it? Liking a sound of a device is not the same as this device is the most faithfull ("HiFi") to the original. Or else nobody would buy tube gear. I always aim to buy the most neutral sounding device. All frequencies treated equal. No boomy bass or excessive highs. |
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Post by navman on Dec 17, 2010 11:51:44 GMT -5
British mags have been reviewing DACs for a long time now.
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Post by lynxo on Dec 17, 2010 12:48:18 GMT -5
Ajani, have you tried using different power cables? I know some gear is sensitive to those kind of tweaks. Also, is there a perceptible burn in with time where it does smooth out? Nope... I expect a product to sound good from the start, then I can look for tweaks to make it sound even better... I'm not into trying to compensate for bad sound upfront with tweaks... My hope is that the XDA-1 will smooth out with time... if the outputs on the XDA-1 are cap coupled, give it some more time. if it sounds the same after a month or so, it's a bright sounding DAC. how do you like the depth, sound stage on the XDA-1 vs. the DAC1, subtle differences? What attracted me to the XDA-1 is of course the price and that is has built in volume control to connect directly to the XPA-1's, bypassing a preamp. I just hope it's not a bright sounding DAC like you are experiencing. |
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Post by bearfan51 on Dec 22, 2010 7:33:17 GMT -5
Well that and the fact that audio memory is extremely unreliable and very easily massaged. If it takes someone more than a couple milliseconds to switch between the two things being compared then the results are highly suspect and you're really only fooling yourself as far as I'm concerned. I've certainly fooled myself many times ;D I've said before if more people had the means to do level matched/instantly switched A/B comparisons, there would probably be about half the audio companies that we have now. Not to be an ass, but I'm calling Bravo Sierra here.... ;D Saying that audio memory is extremely unreliable is an extreme generalization. It 100% depends on who's listening. How do you explain people who have perfect pitch hearing? How is it that you can spot the fakes with the celebrity GPS voice-overs? When you know a distinct sound signature, you can absolutely tell when you're NOT hearing it. You can tell when someone you know is ill, by their voice. That's audio memory. There are many other examples of this type of hearing recognition. Listening is a skill that needs to be practiced and refined, not teased with 30 second bursts. With experience, you can begin to pick out subtle differences in the tone of specific instruments, and can tell when those attributes are missing. (Stradivarius, anyone?) Now one thing we agree on is level matching. If you are directly comparing two pieces of gear, you absolutely need to match the levels as precisely as you can. I'm enjoying this conversation, as I'm looking at the XDA-1 to possibly replace my Adcom. |
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