XDA-1

[musicmatters1]

I'm kinda of new to this.

What does it do? What's it's function. Explain it to me like a beginner.

[stuofsci02]

The XDA-1 is an external DAC (Digital to Analog Converter).

In order to get any music from something that is stored digitally (CD, MP3, FLAC File etc.) it first must be converted to analog before being amplified and played by the speakers.

If you have a CD or DVD or BluRay player that has RCA or XLR analog output on the back then the player has a built in DAC. Depending on the price of the player the built in DAC my be very good for sound quality or horrible for sound quality.

If you have a integrated amp or reciever it may have digital inputs (coax or optical). If this is the case the reciever has a built in DAC, but again the quality can be from very bad to ok.

The XDA-1 has digital inputs and an analog output. This allows you to connect the digital output of a CD player, DVD player computer etc. into the XDA-1 and have it do the digital to analog conversion for you.

In general a lot of gains can be made using a dedicated external DAC like the XDA-1 instead of the internal DAC on a cheaper cd player or AVR.

You can however buy a CD player that has a very good internal DAC if you spend more ~$500 - $5000. But in general this DAC can only be used by the CD player. The XDA-1 will allow you to use a cheap player as a digital transport and make it sound great. You can also plug lots of things into it so your computer, digital music server, CD transport etc. can all benefit.

The one thing to be sure is once your signal is analog coming out of the XDA-1 you do not want it to be converted back to digital for EQ purposes. A lot of AVRs will do this. Then it is actually worse then no XDA-1 at all. That is why a lot of people will go direct to an AMP from the XDA-1 or will use a analog pre-amp (like the USP-1) instead of going into an AVR.

Cheers,

Stuart

[cawgijoe]

An AVR can be used as long as there is a "pure direct" or other such name mode that will just pass the signal through without adding any signal processing.

[stuofsci02]

Dec 22, 2010 15:37:59 GMT -5 cawgijoe said:

An AVR can be used as long as there is a "pure direct" or other such name mode that will just pass the signal through without adding any signal processing.

This is true, however I have never heard an AVR do it well...

[cawgijoe]

Dec 22, 2010 15:44:50 GMT -5 stuofsci02 said:

Dec 22, 2010 15:37:59 GMT -5 cawgijoe said:

An AVR can be used as long as there is a "pure direct" or other such name mode that will just pass the signal through without adding any signal processing.

This is true, however I have never heard an AVR do it well...

Well......I have.

The Pioneer Elite VSX-01 sounds great. I'm sure other higher end AVR's from Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, etc would also.

[stuofsci02]

Dec 22, 2010 16:18:01 GMT -5 cawgijoe said:

Well......I have.

The Pioneer Elite VSX-01 sounds great. I'm sure other higher end AVR's from Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, etc would also.

I think once you have tried a good pure analog pre-amp you might change your mind.

[cawgijoe]

Dec 22, 2010 16:41:35 GMT -5 stuofsci02 said:

Dec 22, 2010 16:18:01 GMT -5 cawgijoe said:

Well......I have.

The Pioneer Elite VSX-01 sounds great. I'm sure other higher end AVR's from Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, etc would also.

I think once you have tried a good pure analog pre-amp you might change your mind.

Possibly.

However if we are to believe that an AVR's "pure" or "direct mode" is exactly that and does not alter or process the signal at all, there is no reason it should not sound good.

[stuofsci02]

Regardless of "pure" or "direct" mode, the AVR or Preamp most certainly modify the signal. Even if it is only in the volume dept.

Even here on the Emotiva website the USP-1 is advertised as a better alternative to using an AVR as a preamp for 2 channel listening.

I would go as far to say that a reasonably priced stereo pre-amp will beat using an AVR (in any mode) at any price let alone the $800 - $1000 AVRs most people use.

[cawgijoe]

Not saying that a dedicated preamp is not better, but at the moment I am quite satisfied with my AVR and have no intention of spending the dough to move in that direction.

I will do some research of course, but I would like to see statistical data on AVR or preamp signal modification using a direct mode.......leaving the volume out of the equation.

[rocky500]

A thread on another forum about this

www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/17160-HT-Pre-Pro-or-AVR-s-that-have-analogue-volume-control

[stuofsci02]

cawgijoe

That is fine and fair. I have no expectations for others and their system. That said, this is an audio forum and the original poster was asking about an external DAC. In my opion (and likely a lot of others) when you are adding an external DAC or a highend CD player you are going for beyond average Joe 2-channel playback.

In most instances using an AVR (even an expensive one) as a preamp or integrated stereo amp would totally defeat the mission.

Now while you may be perfectly happy with this setup and are not willing to spend money to improve on it (which does not bother me in the slightest), this forum is about providing accurate information.

[stuofsci02]

Dec 22, 2010 20:02:57 GMT -5 rocky500 said:

A thread on another forum about this

www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/17160-HT-Pre-Pro-or-AVR-s-that-have-analogue-volume-control

Interesting read..

[cawgijoe]

Dec 22, 2010 20:21:30 GMT -5 stuofsci02 said:

cawgijoe

That is fine and fair. I have no expectations for others and their system. That said, this is an audio forum and the original poster was asking about an external DAC. In my opion (and likely a lot of others) when you are adding an external DAC or a highend CD player you are going for beyond average Joe 2-channel playback.

In most instances using an AVR (even an expensive one) as a preamp or integrated stereo amp would totally defeat the mission.

Now while you may be perfectly happy with this setup and are not willing to spend money to improve on it (which does not bother me in the slightest), this forum is about providing accurate information.

I completely disagree with you on this.

I have owned three DAC's so far.....my first was an Audio Alchemy V1.1 used with a Denon receiver and Sony CDp-X339ES cd player. Without going into tons of detail, the sonic improvement was a big step up over the cd player alone.

Next came an Entech 205.2 which was used with the Denon and then the Pioneer Elite. A Squeezebox Duet was added to the mix. Cd playback was improved further.....but the real revelation was the sound quality of the Duet versus it's internal dac.

I now have the XDA-1.

I will not use the XDA-1 till Christmas day and will report back then. I'm hoping it improves upon the previous dacs.

The information I am providing is based on my own listening.

You are basically saying that if you own an AVR you are wasting your time and will not hear any difference with an outboard dac. Based on my experience, that's pure bunk.

[bobbyt]

What are these "analog preamps" I keep hearing about? That's like when people talk about "DACs with volume control".

All preamps are analog--they take a voltage (analog) and amplify the signal.
DACs don't have volume controls--they turn bits into an analog signal to pass to the preamp.

The DAC and preamp are two separate functions. For whatever reason they don't tend to be in the same box, which might be what confuses people about the XDA.

Usually you see them by themselves, or the DAC in the transport (ie a CD player), with the preamp in the power amp (ie an integrated amp), but there are several DAC/preamp combos and should be more since they suit computers and music servers very well.

[stuofsci02]

Dec 22, 2010 20:55:12 GMT -5 cawgijoe said:

You are basically saying that if you own an AVR you are wasting your time and will not hear any difference with an outboard dac. Based on my experience, that's pure bunk.

This is not at all what I said at all.

I said for AVRs that convert an analog signal back into digital for volume, eq etc. that adding an external DAC could be worse then running the digital input from the souce directly to the AVR since there will be two extra steps. You will have D>A then A>D and then D>A again. The last two steps being done with the AVRs converters. So I would say adding a DAC in this case makes no sense.

For AVRs with a direct mode, I indicated that in general this would not perform nearly as well as a halfway decent 2 channel pre-amp. That is not to say you would not see an improvement by getting a better CD Payer or DAC. However the full potential of an improved DAC or CD player would not be realized.

I equate it to upgrading to a sport suspension in a car but leaving the stock all season tires on.

[stuofsci02]

Dec 22, 2010 22:50:37 GMT -5 bobbyt said:

What are these "analog preamps" I keep hearing about? That's like when people talk about "DACs with volume control".

All preamps are analog--they take a voltage (analog) and amplify the signal.
DACs don't have volume controls--they turn bits into an analog signal to pass to the preamp.

The DAC and preamp are two separate functions. For whatever reason they don't tend to be in the same box, which might be what confuses people about the XDA.

Usually you see them by themselves, or the DAC in the transport (ie a CD player), with the preamp in the power amp (ie an integrated amp), but there are several DAC/preamp combos and should be more since they suit computers and music servers very well.

Well in general what you says is true, however the XDA-1 makes use of a DAC chip that can change volume level in the digital domain before the D to A conversion. So it is actually a DAC with volume control.

And when we say a "true" analog preamp we are referring to a pre-amp that does not have a digital portion to it. For instance you can use a pre/pro like the UMC-1 as a preamp and depending on how you set it up, it may actually redigitize the signal to do its preamp function. On some of these pre/pros and AVRs you can put it in a pure mode which is supposed to bypass this. You can also do this by using the Ext. 5.1/7.1 inputs on an AVR if equipped..

[srb]

Dec 22, 2010 23:28:38 GMT -5 stuofsci02 said:

Well in general what you says is true, however the XDA-1 makes use of a DAC chip that can change volume level in the digital domain before the D to A conversion. So it is actually a DAC with volume control.

My understanding is that volume control of the XDA-1 is performed in the analog domain by an internal resistor ladder within the AD1955 chip, after D/A conversion, but before external I/V conversion and filtering, and therefore is "lossless".

Steve

[Erwin.BE]

Dec 22, 2010 22:50:37 GMT -5 bobbyt said:

What are these "analog preamps" I keep hearing about?

Yeah, let's go semantic on the OP so to make sure he doesn't understand it!

Functions of the XDA-1

1/ It's a DAC (Digital to Analogue Converter). It's a chip that turns zero's and one's into audible real "analogue" music.
2/ It then enforces this analogue signal to a higher voltage output. You have the choice between standard RCA outputs and the professional XLR outputs (if your amp has the XLR inputs).
3/ There are several inputs, all digital. These can come from sources such as a CD-, DVD- or Blu-ray-player, a computer or a device connected to a computer (AppleTV, Sonos, Squeezebox), a cable or satellite receiver. Only audio, no video and only 2 channel.
4/ It has a volume control (with remote even). Not all DAC's have this, and certainly not many in this price region. This means you can leave out the traditional analogue preamp, but only if you have no analogue sources such as a FM tuner or a turntable.

[moodyman]

Dec 22, 2010 23:22:40 GMT -5 stuofsci02 said:

For AVRs with a direct mode, I indicated that in general this would not perform nearly as well as a halfway decent 2 channel pre-amp. That is not to say you would not see an improvement by getting a better CD Payer or DAC. However the full potential of an improved DAC or CD player would not be realized.

Just wrong. I'm sure there are plenty of avr's and pre/pro's which have an analog section which is quite good and a performance level that would surpass a "halfway decent pre-amp"

Additionally you can use the multichannel analog inputs for an even cleaner path.

[stuofsci02]

Dec 23, 2010 7:19:52 GMT -5 moodyman said:

Dec 22, 2010 23:22:40 GMT -5 stuofsci02 said:

For AVRs with a direct mode, I indicated that in general this would not perform nearly as well as a halfway decent 2 channel pre-amp. That is not to say you would not see an improvement by getting a better CD Payer or DAC. However the full potential of an improved DAC or CD player would not be realized.

Just wrong. I'm sure there are plenty of avr's and pre/pro's which have an analog section which is quite good and a performance level that would surpass a "halfway decent pre-amp"

Additionally you can use the multichannel analog inputs for an even cleaner path.

You say "just wrong" and then you follow that up with "I'm sure"..

The question I have is... Have you done the test for yourself?

I have.....

I used to run everything through the EXT. inputs on my NAD reciever before getting a pre-amp. I have tried using Rotel pre/pro's in the $2000 range. None were as good as even the USP-1 (a cheap preamp) and there are plenty of preamps that are better then the USP-1. Emotiva themselves state that the USP-1 sounds better then the UMC-1 when operating from an analog source.