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Post by Nemesis.ie on Jan 17, 2011 6:05:29 GMT -5
Was that a manual single filter or an auto-cal? I think it should be able to do better. Also try with the "Hard knee house curve" and see what you think.  |
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Post by Trey on Jan 17, 2011 14:54:04 GMT -5
The top images were a before and after with one filter. The post at the bottom was a predicted image with 12 filters suggested by auto-eq. I still need to do another measurement to see what the end result is. I currently have a house curve of 80 8.0, 100, 0.0. Need to google hard knee house curve too.  |
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Post by Trey on Jan 17, 2011 15:01:17 GMT -5
Got it, I'll add it and remeasure/ EQ.
30 6.0
35 4.4
40 3.1
45 2.0
50 1.1
60 -0.1
70 -0.6
80 -0.5
90 0.0
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Post by Trey on Jan 17, 2011 15:07:31 GMT -5
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Jan 18, 2011 6:11:40 GMT -5
The top images were a before and after with one filter. The post at the bottom was a predicted image with 12 filters suggested by auto-eq. I still need to do another measurement to see what the end result is. I currently have a house curve of 80 8.0, 100, 0.0. Need to google hard knee house curve too. 12 filters is likely too much - over-filtering can cause issues, probably best to stick with 6 or less on a BFD (IMO). |
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Jan 18, 2011 6:13:30 GMT -5
Got it, I'll add it and remeasure/ EQ. 30 6.0 35 4.4 40 3.1 45 2.0 50 1.1 60 -0.1 70 -0.6 80 -0.5 90 0.0 That's the ticket. Just watch that if you set your overall sub level with an SPL meter or auto-EQ the curve isn't dragged back down (due to the bit below 30Hz being higher). Probably best to manually adjust using the RTA afterwards. |
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Post by Trey on Jan 18, 2011 9:25:30 GMT -5
Thanks again for your suggestions. I thought I was good to go and then read more on the Hard Knee House curve and eq'ing the EQ from that link I posted above. It too mentioned using too many filters is usually not a good thing and to manually adjust the filters. So with that, last night I ran a fresh un filtered measurement to start with, bumped up the target level from 75db to 81db and then only had to add four filters. I pulled down my peak at the 33Hz range and bumped up the 20Hz range. It did make a huge difference. I have the grapshs and will post them on my hometheatershack post later today. Thanks again! . |
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Jan 18, 2011 13:16:04 GMT -5
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Post by Trey on Jan 18, 2011 17:56:14 GMT -5
So I started from scratch following some of the guidelines listed in that post and ended up using only four total filters. Before in green, after in purple. Not sure what I'm looking at with the waterfalls so any inputs or suggestions are appreciated. I'm kind of thinking about getting a calibrated mic now so I can measure my front L/R speakers and see what full range looks like. This is fun! Thanks again for the tips so far!        . |
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Jan 19, 2011 7:08:27 GMT -5
A calibrated mic is even more important in the low frequencies. A lot of the non-cal ones drop off at the low end. Looking good there with the latest runs if they are accurate - and of course if it sounds better that's the main thing. As you can see, excellent results from just 4 filters. I'd be interested in seeing unsmoothed or 1/12 results too. The idea with the waterfall is that once a sound is made, it should go away quickly. If it does not, it is reflections hanging around (or indeed it was too loud in the first place). The waterfall shows how quickly a given frequency decays in the room. Less than 300ms for the sound to go away is supposed to be something to aim for, so your waterfall should be steep - following your curve at 0ms and rapidly dropping down so you should have very little showing at the 250ms or more point (which is a 1/4 of a second). This can show either how well your room is treat or if your sub is "flabby" and not controlled well. I'd love to see some waterfalls done for subs eqed to the same curve in the same room to compare the control. |
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Post by Trey on Jan 19, 2011 8:03:17 GMT -5
I used a .cal file for the RS meter I borrowed. The black line is what was loaded in REW. The red line is my soundcard.  No Smoothing for the final measurement:   |
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Jan 19, 2011 8:36:14 GMT -5
Looking good! What do you have your crossovers set at?
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Jan 19, 2011 8:39:47 GMT -5
I just edited my post to answer the waterfall Q (missed it earlier, sorry).
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Jan 19, 2011 8:42:04 GMT -5
The graphs look nice. Especially the improvement below 30Hz. You should notice that in bass heavy music and movies. So the question on the mic cal is really down to what is the difference from one mic of the same model to the next. The only way to be sure your result is correct is getting a calibrated mic. I've no idea what the variance of those mics are. |
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Jan 19, 2011 8:43:41 GMT -5
Looking good! What do you have your crossovers set at? It would also be good to see a full-range sweep to see how it is blending with the mains (and if the crossover may need adjustment). |
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Post by Trey on Jan 19, 2011 9:22:54 GMT -5
My sub is crossed over at 80Hz, my L/C/R and surrounds are also at 80Hz. I'd need to get a mic with a cal file and a phantom power supply to get a full range sweep. Oneday I guess.
I def feel the added bass in the lower range in music and movies. I played a couple of movies last night, Transformers, chapter 20 when the truck flips over the lady in slo-mo and then Wall-E, when he is attached to Eve's ship on the way to the Axiom and then when both of them were playing outside the ship. Both were simply awesome, big improvements over what I had before.
Music was better as well, played Eagles DTS CD of Hell Freezes Over and the kick of the bass drum was now felt in my chest. Big grin on that one!
I really do appreciate the suggestion to look into the Hard Nose House Curve which led to that thread with more suggestions. It was well worth the read and effort.
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Jan 19, 2011 9:24:11 GMT -5
A calibrated mic is even more important in the low frequencies. A lot of the non-cal ones drop off at the low end. Looking good there with the latest runs if they are accurate - and of course if it sounds better that's the main thing. As you can see, excellent results from just 4 filters. I'd be interested in seeing unsmoothed or 1/12 results too. The idea with the waterfall is that once a sound is made, it should go away quickly. If it does not, it is reflections hanging around (or indeed it was too loud in the first place). The waterfall shows how quickly a given frequency decays in the room. Less than 300ms for the sound to go away is supposed to be something to aim for, so your waterfall should be steep - following your curve at 0ms and rapidly dropping down so you should have very little showing at the 250ms or more point (which is a 1/4 of a second). This can show either how well your room is treat or if your sub is "flabby" and not controlled well. I'd love to see some waterfalls done for subs eqed to the same curve in the same room to compare the control. I saw somewhere at the REW forum where you could by the Galaxy 140 SPL custom calibrated with its own cal file for around $130. I'm seriously considering one. The Galaxy is known to have better response in the higher frequencies as well. |
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Post by Trey on Jan 19, 2011 9:27:18 GMT -5
It's hereI just bought an XDA-1 today so a new mic will have to wait. It's def on my list of things to buy. |
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Jan 19, 2011 9:40:22 GMT -5
My sub is crossed over at 80Hz, my L/C/R and surrounds are also at 80Hz. I'd need to get a mic with a cal file and a phantom power supply to get a full range sweep. Oneday I guess. I def feel the added bass in the lower range in music and movies. I played a couple of movies last night, Transformers, chapter 20 when the truck flips over the lady in slo-mo and then Wall-E, when he is attached to Eve's ship on the way to the Axiom and then when both of them were playing outside the ship. Both were simply awesome, big improvements over what I had before. Music was better as well, played Eagles DTS CD of Hell Freezes Over and the kick of the bass drum was now felt in my chest. Big grin on that one! I really do appreciate the suggestion to look into the Hard Nose House Curve which led to that thread with more suggestions. It was well worth the read and effort. If you like the Eagles, get the Farewell Tour 1 DVD. I have both and this one has a much better DTS audio track. But I miss Don Felder on it. |
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Post by Trey on Jan 19, 2011 11:18:01 GMT -5
The DVD or the HD-DVD? I did hear the HD-DVD was incredible.
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