XDA-1 vs Bryston BDA-1

[phil82]

Hey all,

Received my XDA-1 a few days ago and gave it a serious run on my father's system since I'm renovating and my system is tucked away for the time being. (B&W Diamond 804, Bryston 4B SST Amp, Bryston BP26 Preamp, Bryston BDA-1 DAC).

In a direct A/B Comparaison with the Bryston BDA-1 using Both Coaxial and Optical inputs I have not been able to tell the difference between the two (apart from a slightly higher voltage output on the BDA-1).

Obviously, the BDA-1 is better built, thicker metal all around and a lot more rugged. If it wasn't for the slight level difference between the two, We wouldn't have been able to tell the difference in sound.

This is when used along with the Bryston preamp. Using the XDA-1 as a preamp sounds a bit too bright/harsh for my taste, Not bad but not really "musical" to my ears, Then again, I'm used to the sound of the whole system as it is...

I'm very impressed by the XDA-1, I assumed it would sound good but wouldn't be able to compete with the 2000$ Bryston DAC (Heck, the optional bryston remote costs 350$ !!).

My only gripe about the XDA-1 is that i can't turn of the light show in front I wish there was a DIM step that would turn off all the halo lights and keep only the display and input LED on and another step that kills all display (The manual does state it can be turned off but I guess that for some reason that didnt make it in the firmware).

Just my .02$ worth

[harri009]

Great 1st post Phil, welcome to the audiophile bargain world. Now we need you to buy some amps and do the same comparison to that bryston 4B

[corgidog59]

Phil82,

Thank you for your insights and observations. I has along "posting" war with another contributor on another audio web site concerning a professional review of the Bryston CD player. Although, I have never heard the Bryston ($2,500), I made the point that for $400 the ERC-1 (or XDA-1) was just as good. I told my fellow poster to rip both products open and tell me from a purely electronic parts design persective what makes the Bryston so much better - $2000K more better than the ERC-1 (XDA-1). He vented on me mercively. I went on to say that CD technology is very mature. Manufactures aren't making ground breaking CD products with features like say going from a ordinary cell phone to an iPhone for example. Discussions seem to me at least, revolve around the latest DAC chips and over sampling rate. As an owner of the XDA-1 for over 2 months now, I can't tell the difference between it and the DACs on my receiver (Pioneer XSX-03). It all sound darn good to me. Don't get me wrong, if I could aford it, I would consider buying the Bryston for no other reason than the psychological affect of owning a high-end piece of gear. What really has made a diffference in my system is not the electronic componets but the speakers. I traded up from low end Polks to Monitor Audio RS6s a couple of years ago and that has made a noticeable improvement.

[stuofsci02]

Corgidog59,

While you might be right in this case, without having heard both yourself how could you make such an arguement?

Also in general, the DAC chip plays only part of the signficance. IMO the rest of the analog design is more important.

To that end, my Oppo BDP-83SE which many have said is on par with the XDA-1 or ERC-1 (maybe even a little better) has been beaten handily. So there are things out there that while more expensive are better.

[GMan]

Bryston gear is expensive because they're hand made in Canada. It can take up to a week to assemble one product so you're basically paying for the technician's salary. Plus, Bryston is sold thru a dealer network so there needs to be markup to allow for dealer profit. If Emotiva wanted to hand assemble their products in the US and sell thru a dealer network, they'd be charging similar prices. From an engineering standpoint, Bryston gear does test better on the bench but there's the law of diminishing returns. 90% of the performance for 20% of the cost is what appeals to Emotiva fans.

[phil82]

Don't get me wrong, The Bryston gear is great, And a good part of that money goes into local labor which is more expensive obviously but also in various little details, Bryston warranty is longuer than any other in the audio field, and the build quality of the gear is way up there.

Now, like most things in life, as quality goes up, cost-performance ratio goes down. So i was expecting the XDA-1 to be close, but never on par (soundwise) to the Bryston BDA-1, which had me quite surprised and pleased

[corgidog59]

stuofsci02


You are most correct in that I should have listened to the Bryston in order to make a fair comparison.

Given the old saying that, "you get what you pay for". I was skeptical that $2,500 was going to provide me with a listenning experience 5X better than what Emotiva offers either through the ERC-1 or XDA-1. Moreover, the Bryston MSRP reflects not so much quality but the actual cost (labor / overhead and etc.) of producing their player. But all that aside, I have read most of the posts on the ERC-1 and XDA-1. While they are mostly favorable there is a fair number of inconsistent / variation of users assessments. For example, phil82 thinks the XDA-1 is nearly a match for the Bryston. I read another forum contributor who thinks the PS Audio D-Link iii performs better then the XDA-1. You can find more of these types contradictory reviews.

The fact is, listening is so so subjective. While audio experts can hook up a piece of equipment and show through graphs how perfect the sound coming from the source equipment is, your ears can only hear what they can hear.

In my case, my hearing is not as good as it once was (former artillery officer). It may be the reason why I cannot hear any differences between the XDA-1 for CD play back and running the signal through my receiver. But, I keep jumping back and forth from CD (XDA-1) to HDMI on my remote hoping to finally hear something extrodinary. But nothing yet.

For the record, the following statistics on hear impairment come from the National Institute of Health's web site:

Approximately 17 percent (36 million) of American adults report some degree of hearing loss.

There is a strong relationship between age and reported hearing loss: 18 percent of American adults 45-64 years old, 30 percent of adults 65-74 years old, and 47 percent of adults 75 years old or older have a hearing impairment.

As a former military guy, I had to have my hearing checked every time I had to have a physical. Most people go through life never having their hearing checked.

My point to all of this is that, I am not alone in suffering from hearing loss. Many reviewers may also have some undetected level of hearing impairment but still review audio gear which is a bit unsettling if you think about it.

It is all OK with me, I enjoy the hobby and enjoy reading what other' experiences are with their system componets. I am truly amazed at how knowledgable many of the members of AVS Forum are. My IQ goes up by a whole point just spending time on that forum. lol

[monkumonku]

Feb 22, 2011 12:20:05 GMT -5 corgidog59 said:

stuofsci02


You are most correct in that I should have listened to the Bryston in order to make a fair comparison.

Given the old saying that, "you get what you pay for". I was skeptical that $2,500 was going to provide me with a listenning experience 5X better than what Emotiva offers either through the ERC-1 or XDA-1. Moreover, the Bryston MSRP reflects not so much quality but the actual cost (labor / overhead and etc.) of producing their player. But all that aside, I have read most of the posts on the ERC-1 and XDA-1. While they are mostly favorable there is a fair number of inconsistent / variation of users assessments. For example, phil82 thinks the XDA-1 is nearly a match for the Bryston. I read another forum contributor who thinks the PS Audio D-Link iii performs better then the XDA-1. You can find more of these types contradictory reviews.

The fact is, listening is so so subjective. While audio experts can hook up a piece of equipment and show through graphs how perfect the sound coming from the source equipment is, your ears can only hear what they can hear.

In my case, my hearing is not as good as it once was (former artillery officer). It may be the reason why I cannot hear any differences between the XDA-1 for CD play back and running the signal through my receiver. But, I keep jumping back and forth from CD (XDA-1) to HDMI on my remote hoping to finally hear something extrodinary. But nothing yet.

For the record, the following statistics on hear impairment come from the National Institute of Health's web site:

Approximately 17 percent (36 million) of American adults report some degree of hearing loss.

There is a strong relationship between age and reported hearing loss: 18 percent of American adults 45-64 years old, 30 percent of adults 65-74 years old, and 47 percent of adults 75 years old or older have a hearing impairment.

As a former military guy, I had to have my hearing checked every time I had to have a physical. Most people go through life never having their hearing checked.

My point to all of this is that, I am not alone in suffering from hearing loss. Many reviewers may also have some undetected level of hearing impairment but still review audio gear which is a bit unsettling if you think about it.

It is all OK with me, I enjoy the hobby and enjoy reading what other' experiences are with their system componets. I am truly amazed at how knowledgable many of the members of AVS Forum are. My IQ goes up by a whole point just spending time on that forum. lol

You are right about many of us having suffered some loss of hearing, if not from specific things such as exposure to constant loud noises earlier in our life, then simply from getting older (sigh)..

But I want to say a few things regarding differences between equipment:

One, you say that the reason for such a huge difference in cost between a Bryston and and Emo is not so much quality but the actual cost (labor, overhead, etc.). I think that is true to some degree, but I also feel some companies add more markup than others, and there are also longer distribution chains that add additional markup along the way. Also, the smaller the company, the less the economies of scale and thus their cost per unit produced is higher. I think Emo must have a pretty decent volume of sales which allows them to keep their costs per unit down.

Next, and this is just my personal opinion which will probably open up a can of worms but I would say that there is much less difference in sound between two such components than people think there is. That's psychological - they expect the more expensive one will sound better and that's what they hear. Or, they need to justify all that money they spent so they make themselves hear a difference. I know a lot of folks will get mad and say, "I heard what I heard so don't try and tell me what I heard because you don't have my ears!" That is true, but nevertheless psychology plays a big role in our appreciation of audio, just as it does with the appreciation of wine. Look at all the people out there who can't form an opinion on their own equipment until the read an "expert" review of it, or get confirmation from other people's comments. There's more safety in numbers. It's no different with wines - people will taste a wine and then if there is an "expert" in the midst, they will wait to hear what he or she has to say before pronouncing their own opinion. If they do speak first and then the expert disagrees, then the person will retaste the wine and say oh yes, now I see. It isn't as good as I thought it was. Also, I think a lot of people get differences in volume confused with differences in quality - a slight difference in volume will make most people choose the louder one as the better one.

[jmilton]

Monku, YOU are louder...therefore BETTER!

Your analogy reminds me of the tale of "The Emperor's New Clothing". There is some truth to someone declaring, "It sounds amazing!", and others falling into line with the declared opinion. There is no substitute for getting your hands on as much product as you can, and seeing for yourself...unfortunately, you'd almost have to be a reviewer to get said products into your home in the first place. Life is cruel...

[monkumonku]

Feb 22, 2011 12:50:28 GMT -5 jmilton said:

Monku, YOU are louder...therefore BETTER!

Your analogy reminds me of the tale of "The Emperor's New Clothing". There is some truth to someone declaring, "It sounds amazing!", and others falling into line with the declared opinion. There is no substitute for getting your hands on as much product as you can, and seeing for yourself...unfortunately, you'd almost have to be a reviewer to get said products into your home in the first place. Life is cruel...

Yeah but who can trust reviewers? We know what a shady group they are! ;D ;D

The thing is, many people will trust reviewers and other people's opinions more than their own ears. I guess that is good for the manufacturers since it keeps us all afflicted with upgraditis. ;D

[hokienation]

Great thread that has touched upon some interesting questions. Can companies like Bryston continue to exist, even flourish with their current operating model as companies like Emotiva are gettting closer in terms of performance for a fraction of the cost through off-shore manufacturing and direct distribution channels?

Phil's point about the cost of the Bryston remote really puts things in perspective....

[stuofsci02]

I think there will always be a small market.. Just like there is for high-end cars.

As great as Emo products are, when I go to other forums like the B&W forum, there are very few people using EMo gear. Most are using Classe, Mac, Krell, Bryston etc.

And it is not because no one there knows about Emo...

[briank]

I trust my furry ears and not those shady reviewers or those skeptical sushi eaters. ;D

[tourtelot]

Easy to tell actually.

Set up a double blind test between the two units.

Hard to do right and boring to boot you say?

Then be very happy with your wonderful sounding rig and leave the reviewing, comparing and chatter to others who will happily do it until the cows come home.

No comparison is valid, in my humble opinion, unless it is double blind.

YMMV.

D.