XDA-1 vs Onkyo 5507

[12elfthfloor]

Hi,

Received my XDA 1 last night hooked it up and began to play. After a couple of hours 2 of us sat down for a listen.

CD Player > COAX > Onkyo 5507 (on pure Audio) > XPA1

VS

CD Player > Coax > XDA 1 > Onkyo 5507 (on pure Audio) > XPA1

##All using balanced cables.

##The same COAX was used.

The XDA was muddy, slow and vocals were more difficult to make out, as opposed to the Onkyo which had more clarity, focused and seemed to have a more forward sound stage.

On the contra, I think the band/music sounded a little more cohesive on the XDA-1.

Tried a couple of discs of varying types with same result.

Couple of questions, is there a break-in period on the XDA-1? has anyone heard the similar? is there something else i should consider?

Since last night i have left the system running on repeat so will get back with an update next week.

Side note, should there be an instruction manual, and a trigger cable in the box?

Cheers

[roadrunner]

To get a better feel for how the XDA-1 sounds versus you Onkyo 5507 pre/pro you should connect your CD Player to the XDA-1; and connect the XDA-1 directly to the XPA-1 power amps. This will give you a much better comparison... apples to apples. Most people find connecting the XDA-1 directly to the power amps sounds far better than piping it through a pre/pro before going to the power amps.

[bdripper]

I agree with roadrunner. How are you comparring the XDA vs the 5507 when the 5507 is in both set-ups.

I have Marantz CDP > XDA > UPA and it sounds pretty darn good.

[dave109]

wth why is the onkyo even in the chain when using the xda makes utterly no sense unless theres a volume issue

[vishal]

12elfthfloor,
While I agree with others that XDA-1 to XPA-1 will get you the best results I don't think keeping the Onkyo in the mix should degrade SQ comapred to Onkyo without the XDA. If anything it should improve since the XDA-1 DAC should be better than the one in the Onkyo. Weird!

That said, I know for sure I read a comment on one of the forums (or might even have been a website review of XDA) where the reviewer had the exact same experience. In their case the sound improved dramatically after a few ten hours or so of break-in. I don't get that but that's what they claimed.

Personally, I have the same concerns. I have an Integra DHC-9.9 going to XPA-1. My XDA-1 got delivered at home today. I will try the same experiment in the next 2-3 days and let you know what I find.

Let us know if your sounds improves after some "break-in".

[tjf120]

Feb 21, 2011 21:34:38 GMT -5 dave109 said:

wth why is the onkyo even in the chain when using the xda makes utterly no sense unless theres a volume issue

For most people, wouldn't they use the receiver for component switching?? IE, if you run the XDA direct into the amps, then you are 2 ch only?

Or are you thinking AB switch or something??

[dave109]

yeah if you use your set up other than strictly 2 channel listening than yeah the receiver would be used for component switching that uses an analog conection and or more than 2 channels

[12elfthfloor]

Hi all,

Thank you for your replies.

I certainly agree with connecting the XDA to the XPA 1's and will try that a little later. just didnt want to have to keep swapping cables when ever i wanted to watch a movie or listen to music.

My main aim last night was to compare the DAC of the ONKYO, (not the Onkyo as a unit) with the XDA-1 as a DAC. By connecting it this way i believed i was isolating a DAC to DAC comparison. The Onkyo as a unit would then be equal in both tests.

CD Player (Coax out)>

into the DAC of the XDA-1 (Balanced Out)
or
DAC of the ONKYO (Internal)


Then through the Onkyo (as a unit).


Hope this makes sense. Thank you for your patience... always learning!!!

Cheers

[12elfthfloor]

Feb 21, 2011 22:13:19 GMT -5 vishal said:

12elfthfloor,
While I agree with others that XDA-1 to XPA-1 will get you the best results I don't think keeping the Onkyo in the mix should degrade SQ comapred to Onkyo without the XDA. If anything it should improve since the XDA-1 DAC should be better than the one in the Onkyo. Weird!

That said, I know for sure I read a comment on one of the forums (or might even have been a website review of XDA) where the reviewer had the exact same experience. In their case the sound improved dramatically after a few ten hours or so of break-in. I don't get that but that's what they claimed.

Personally, I have the same concerns. I have an Integra DHC-9.9 going to XPA-1. My XDA-1 got delivered at home today. I will try the same experiment in the next 2-3 days and let you know what I find.

Let us know if your sounds improves after some "break-in".

You hit the nail on head! this is what i am wondering.

Will do.

Thank you.

[vishal]

My findings:
Unboxed and powered up the XDA-1 last night and left running all night. Tested in the morning. Not a whole lot of testing but some quick listening to see if there were obvious differences.

What was compared:
A: HTPC (via HDMI 24 bit/192KHz) -> DHC9.9 (via XLR) -> XPA-1 (via Emotiva X-series spk cables) -> Magnepan 1.7 planars
(I know I should probably drop that to 16/48 for a fair comaprison. But why? This is the best SQ Option A can give me)

B: HTPC (via USB 16 bit/48KHz) -> XDA-1 (via XLR) -> DHC9.9 (via XLR) -> XPA-1 (via Emotiva X-series spk cables) -> Magnepan 1.7 planars
(For fairness - I will do Coax/optical at 24/192 later - will have to add a sound card to PC for that.)

C: (not compared) I will do the pure XDA-1 -> XPA-1 (no DHC9.9) later but this is really not a option. I need to use the DHC for HT. Dont want to toggle XPA-1 switches.

- Source was all lossless music (FLAC and WMA Loassless)
- DHC9.9 was on "direct" mode throughout. Meaning it should NOT have been messing with my analog signals and doing anymore A/D/A on it for DSP reasons.

After a quick listen to some of the reference material that I use for sound testing here are my findings:

1. There is an ever so little improvement in the SQ with the XDA in the picture (Option B). Mainly around clarity of high frequencies and better spatial separation of those frequencies. Also the soundstage was definitely wider. But since I am using Maggies (known for these exact characteristics), I have pretty awesome sound in that area even without the XDA. So the improvement is definitely subtle and I had to strain my ears to pick it up.

2. All this talk about more and better defined bass - I could not hear it. Maybe because Maggies are not the strongest in reproducing bass frequencies. Actually for that exact reason I was hoping for more/tighter bass. I wanted to believe this badly but just did not see it.

Bottomline, unless the SQ improves via XDA-1 for one reason or another I will be super hard pressed to justify keeping it even at $299.

I will provide an update after
- Give the XDA-1 a week or so "break-in"
- Use an SPDIF into the XDA-1. I know on my HDMI/DHC9.9 just going from 16/44.1 to 24/192 (even on CD ripped lossless music) the SQ improvement is significant.

Thanks.
-Vishal

[Deleted]

The toggle switches on the XPA-1's are rated to 50,000 cycles. So you would have to try and wear them out. I got my XDA-1 today, as well as a USP-1. Using the XDA-1 straight to my amp for music and the USP-1 for Directv and bluray to my amp.

Can't wait to try it out

[honk]

Hi,

I have the 5507 and the XDA next to it. SQ is excellent with both units. No real audible difference (flat/pure direct, reference speakers at XPA1s).

Don't get me wrong, but I think your Maggies are no tool for SQ checks ( ... no doubt, they are 'special' in other ways, but they has more flaws than strenghts).

[vishal]

Ah I attract my first Maggie basher - finally. Sadly though "honk", my purpose in this thread is not to be drawn in a Maggie debate. Maybe you have great speakers that cost 10X+. Or maybe you have a system where Maggies sound horrible (really?). Regardless, I coudn't care less. The 1.7s are here to stay in my system and they sound fabulous to me.

So the question that remains is whether the XDA-1 makes them sound better or not. Since my previous post I have made changes to ensure that I am supplying bit perfect lossless 16/44.1 audio to the XDA-1. Just incase the PC was robbing us of any fidelity. With the source media being 16/44.1 in the first place the USB input of XDA-1 will not limit the sound quality.

But even with that the sound through the XDA-1 is not any better than the Integra DAC. Interestingly the same findings as you "honk" :-)

So one test remaining - XDA to XPA (no Integra invovled). Serious doubt that will make big enough diff to make it a keeper.

[paintedklown]

Feb 27, 2011 19:15:11 GMT -5 vishal said:

So one test remaining - XDA to XPA (no Integra invovled). Serious doubt that will make big enough diff to make it a keeper.

Please do and report your findings back here. Maggies are actually very popular around here and have many fans. Your feedback will be considered valuable.

I must throw in that I feel removing your Integra from the chain will make an audible difference...I am excited to see what you discover.

[12elfthfloor]

Hi,

As promised, i have let the XDA run now for 6 days for 24hours with a CD on repeat. Sat back and had a listen over the weekend and the sound has definitely changed.

Also did some switching of various CD players and interconnects all with noticeable differences (of course) so i know my ears are working.

6 days later it sounds a lot better, definitely. Even to the ears of my fellow listeners subjected to my sessions, but in comparison to the Onkyo 5507? not so sure.

Sure, like Vishal i will give the XPA 1 direct a shot, but as my whole system (9 channels) is currently using balanced cables to prevent any possible interference i believe it would be a little crazy to revert to RCA for the left and right. Which means when i want to listen to CD i will need to switch balanced cables. Not really my cup of tea.

Tonight i will do again what i did in the first post. Compare the DAC of the Onkyo with that of the XDA. Fingers crossed it comes up trumps as i would really like it to be a success.

Cheers

[paintedklown]

Thanks for the update. I will be looking forward to your findings with only the XDA-1 between your CD player and amps.

[vishal]

Ran the final test - Integra to XPA (over RCA) compared to XDA to XPA (over XLR).
Just the two magnepan 1.7s. No sub. Integra in Direct mode. Vol matched by ear. Flipped switch on XPA-1s to switch between the two. What a pain.
Short summary - no audible difference.
Sorry paintedklown, I wanted the XDA to come out a winner but it just didn't.

I will give it another week of break in and repeat the test. Will have a couple other listeners do the blind test.
Till then ...

[roadrunner]

vishal

Next time you do the comparison, make sure you have matched the volume using a SPL meter. It is nearly impossible to match the levels by ear and your test is meaningless if the output levels are not identical. In the past, I have helped friends set up comparisons of components that they thought were set to the same value. The last time this occurred, his "ear" settings were off by 2 dB; and, this most certainly would have skewed the results of his comparison. Human beings have a hard time accurately judging volume levels.

I look forward to seeing your findings on the next go-around. Have fun doing the comparison. If possible, can you recruit a friend or neighbor to "blindly" change between the Onkyo 5507 and the Emotiva XDA-1 while all listening participants keep their guesses to themselves during the tests. Tally all the guesses at the conclusion of the test and see how accurately each is selected. It could turn out to be a very enjoyable afternoon or evening.

[vishal]

Thanks roadrunner. Here's the thing though...
Other than satisfying my audio-geek curiosity, this is not going to do much for improving my system. It was funny as I excitedly discussed my plans for the "blind test" with my wife last night. I had to recruit her. She simply asked - "Thats fine but if you cant hear the diffference yourself, how does it matter whether others can or not? You already have your answer". :-)

Guess what? She is right. I can go buy the $60 Radio Shack SPL meter toy and do the level matching thing and the blind test - but the fact remains that if its gonna take jumping through that many hoops to notice an improvement then its already past the point of being practical.

Would I love to have a dedicated XDA+XSP+XPA channel for my 2-ch. Yes sure - it will look cool too. Will I be able to justify it - No.

So yes, I will do some more testing after another week of break in but I am not holding my breath. I am getting slowly convinced that the $$$ I spent on the upscale Integra pre/pro were indeed worth it. Specially given the fact that 12elfthfloor has got similar results - I am getting convinced that the DAC in the Integra/OnkyoPro is awesome and stands right up to the one in XDA-1.

Lets see if the next week changes that opinion.

[dragonhd95]

vishal,

Your source is from computer thru USB, and DHC9.9 is using HDMI.

Can you try to test with CD Player (COAX) instead, if that possible?

And let us know the result.

Thanks