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Post by hawk14 on Apr 13, 2011 10:37:30 GMT -5
I never wanted to see the day when I had to choose between these two amps. But since I am now forced to have only one system, I must now do extensive testing and listening to the two in order to see who will stay in a combined ht and two channel set up, and who will go. Some Background regarding my system, I have Definitive Technology speakers all the way around in my home theater, and I was putting a two channel system together built around the Nola Viper IIa, a very fine speaker which I love for two channel listening. To me, you can't get much better than Def Tech for home theater. Alas, I must part with the least sonically satisfying for two channell listening, and have the winner run double duty. The Def Tech PM700's were no match for the Vipers, but I didnt expect them to be. So the Def Techs go up for sale. I will post that on this site later. The more difficult decision will be between the two amps. the MF A3cr is a highly regarded amp well reviewed and well known for its bass, detail and sweet sound. The UPA-1's have been boxed for the past several months since their purchase, waiting for my room to be finished so I can put them into action. Last night, I hooked them up, turned them on and did some initial listening. Initial impressions, the UPA's seem to be more open on top, and a little more forward sounding. By the way, I don't like forward, in-your-face, midrange. To be fair, I'm leaving them on for a couple of days before I get down to some real listening. I've heard a lot of good things about the UPA's and I don't want to short change them due to any initial harshness that I may hear in comparison to the MF. The associated equipment is: McIntosh c15 preamplifier; Musical Fidelity A5 cd player; River Cable IC's between amps and preamp; Signal Cable IC's between cd player and preamp; Nola Blue Thunder speaker cables (biwire). Stay tuned guys, because the 2nd place amp (not really a loser! ;D) will sadly be missed but will have to go up for sale, and someone is going to be the benefactor of a great amp for a great price.  |
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Post by hawk14 on Apr 15, 2011 7:40:40 GMT -5
Hmm, things are getting interesting. The UPA-1's have been on since Wednesday, and while I don't want to make any premature comments, I'm hearing some things a little differently. I suspect two more days of not being turned off should do the trick, at which point I will do the critical listening.
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Post by Micro1 on Apr 15, 2011 7:45:23 GMT -5
Things are heating up!
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Post by hawk14 on Apr 18, 2011 8:53:58 GMT -5
Ok, let me start off by saying that I hate comparing all kinds of audio gear other than speakers. Normally, within a minute or so, I can tell you if i prefer one speaker over another, or if I even like it at all. For me, comparing amps and pre amps is so much more subjective and harder because you don't actually "hear" an amp. And for me the only way to compare amps is to do a direct comparison and have the ability to switch back and forth between amps at a moments notice. That is impossible in my home as I don't have the equipment or space. So, I have to rely on my rather short auditory memory. I had been listening to the MF A3cr for the past year or so through my Def Techs, and found the amp to sound somewhat uninvolving. However, when I hooked them up to my Nola Vipers, everything opened up and sparkled like never before. In that instance, I knew it was more a function of the speakers than the amp. But that is also when I knew I was going to have a problem because I had the UPA-1's sitting in the box for the two channel set-up, and recently discovered that I was going to have to choose between the two. Enough of the background info; lets get to it. First off, I like both of these amps and could be happy with either of them in my system. The MF A3 is a very clean amp, it leans toward the warm side of neutral and has a warm seductive midrange. And both these amps are very smooth in presentation with the ability to crank things up if you want to get a little rowdy. When I first compared the UPA's to the MF A3, I thought the midrange was forward, bordering on bright. But that's not it at all, the UPA's midrange is more pronounced, but in a good way. You actually hear just a little bit more. In comparison, the MF midrange is somewhat recessed. For example, in a concert hall, the voices out of the MF are toward the back of the stage, while the UPA's bring them to the front of the stage. Another area where I thought the UPA's were forward or a little brite/harsh was in the treble. Again, this is not the case at all. In comparison to the MF, the UPA's treble sparkles more, its more open and extends farther from side to side. The highs with the UPA's are crisper but without any harshness. The bass in both the UPA's and the MF is about the same. Both are tuneful but not overpowering. But again, I believe that this is more of a function of the speaker than either of these amps. The Viper IIa's are known for solid tuneful bass, but they are not the last word in bass slam, not by a longshot. So I'll call bass even. Probably the most significant difference is in two areas which pretty much determined the winner for me. The first area is noise level. I played a couple of acapella tracks from both male and female artists and didn't notice anything wrong with the MF until I heard the UPA's. The UPA's just whipped the MF in noise or lack thereof. The background of the singers on both recordings was dead silent. It was like there was a black curtain behind the singers which allowed nothing else to come through. Amazing. The MF was good, but somehow it just wasn't as quiet as the UPA's. The other area where there was a real noticeable difference is power. At various points in the volume range, the UPA's played louder and stronger than the MF. The Mf is no slouch, with 120 watts in a dual mono design, but the UPA's true mono-block configuration with 200 watts on tap was just too much for the MF. The funny thing is, in my current living situation, I will never be able to take full advantage of the UPA's power advantage. But I guess its nice to know that you have the power if you ever need it. The bottom line, as I stated earlier, is both of these amps are excellent sources of power; they both are very smooth in delivery and can put the hammer down if called upon to do so. The UPA's however, bested the MF most significantly in the treble, width of soundstage, noise floor and power, and to a slightly lesser degree, in the midrange. I listen to a lot of jazz-fusion, from artists like the Yellowjackets, Jean Luc Ponty, Stanley Clarke, Al Dimeola and the like. For vocals, I listen to a lot of Sting, Sade, Diana Krall, Vinx and Jill Scott. My favorite pop/rock bands are the Police and Earth, Wind & Fire. I played all of the above artists during this shootout, and while I enjoyed it, doing the comparison was annoying, having to get up and change amps every other song, and sometimes in the middle of a song. But it needed to be done. If any of you reading this are dissappointed by the lack of audiophile terminology to describe the sounds that I heard, Im Sorry, but I dont pretend to be a pro reviewer, and I normally don't talk or write that way. Besides, I wouldn't know a "chocolately midrange" if it walked up and smacked me in the face! If I didn't officially announce the winner, I think by now you can tell that it is the UPA-1's, but it wasn't a total domination. It was more like a closely fought, well played football game with a 7 to 10 point margin of victory. ;D Job well done, Emotiva. |
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Post by bongteo on Apr 18, 2011 11:23:09 GMT -5
Well compose and straight to the point Your description is exactly what many upa-1 user including myself are experiencing. Detail, very black background, wide soundstage, extended high, tightly control bass,musical & slightly on the warm side, nuetral and reproduced faithfully to the source. It can do any genre beautifully and it's only $349 per amp now! It's already making me, and still am, very Emo (Pun intended) every night! ;D |
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Post by monkumonku on Apr 18, 2011 11:36:54 GMT -5
Well compose and straight to the point Your description is exactly what many upa-1 user including myself are experiencing. Detail, very black background, wide soundstage, extended high, tightly control bass,musical & slightly on the warm side, nuetral and reproduced faithfully to the source. It can do any genre beautifully and it's only $349 per amp now! It's already making me, and still am, very Emo (Pun intended) every night! ;D I have a question, since I like to make trouble. ;D If the UPA-1 is "slightly on the warm side" then how can that be consistent with its being "neutral and reproduced faithfully to the source?" It would seem that if it had a warm character then that would be adding something to the source that wasn't originally there. |
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Post by hawk14 on Apr 18, 2011 15:50:36 GMT -5
Thanks, Bongteo. Im glad you appreciated the review. I guess my hearing is pretty good if other UPA-1 owners are hearing similar sounds that I described!
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Post by jazzinfluenced on Apr 18, 2011 17:18:36 GMT -5
Wow, those Nola's are nice sounding speakers! Great to hear you can pair them up with the budget price upa-1's. Awesome...! Speaks volume of what these puppy's are made of.
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Post by geebo on Apr 18, 2011 17:36:42 GMT -5
Well compose and straight to the point Your description is exactly what many upa-1 user including myself are experiencing. Detail, very black background, wide soundstage, extended high, tightly control bass,musical & slightly on the warm side, nuetral and reproduced faithfully to the source. It can do any genre beautifully and it's only $349 per amp now! It's already making me, and still am, very Emo (Pun intended) every night! ;D I have a question, since I like to make trouble. ;D If the UPA-1 is "slightly on the warm side" then how can that be consistent with its being "neutral and reproduced faithfully to the source?" It would seem that if it had a warm character then that would be adding something to the source that wasn't originally there. But what if the source is "slightly on the warm side"? ;D |
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Post by monkumonku on Apr 18, 2011 17:46:53 GMT -5
I have a question, since I like to make trouble. ;D If the UPA-1 is "slightly on the warm side" then how can that be consistent with its being "neutral and reproduced faithfully to the source?" It would seem that if it had a warm character then that would be adding something to the source that wasn't originally there. But what if the source is "slightly on the warm side"? ;D Then that means the amp would be neutral because it played back the warm with warm, sort of like how a thermos does it. |
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Post by Micro1 on Apr 18, 2011 19:44:16 GMT -5
Great review and good taste in music! And +1 for being a Brooklynite.
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Post by hawk14 on Apr 18, 2011 20:54:54 GMT -5
Wow, those Nola's are nice sounding speakers! Great to hear you can pair them up with the budget price upa-1's. Awesome...! Speaks volume of what these puppy's are made of. I have to admit, it took me a long time to pull the trigger and try them out with the Nolas. As you said, the Vipers are great speakers and require quality amplification. Stuff like home theater receivers or weak amps just wont cut it; I hooked up my Yamaha jut for kicks and it could not handle the Vipers at all. The UPA-1's have got to be one of the best deals in power amps today. Micro 1, thanks for the thumbs up on the music and hail to the County of Kings! |
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Post by bongteo on Apr 26, 2011 6:45:04 GMT -5
Well compose and straight to the point Your description is exactly what many upa-1 user including myself are experiencing. Detail, very black background, wide soundstage, extended high, tightly control bass,musical & slightly on the warm side, nuetral and reproduced faithfully to the source. It can do any genre beautifully and it's only $349 per amp now! It's already making me, and still am, very Emo (Pun intended) every night! ;D I have a question, since I like to make trouble. ;D If the UPA-1 is "slightly on the warm side" then how can that be consistent with its being "neutral and reproduced faithfully to the source?" It would seem that if it had a warm character then that would be adding something to the source that wasn't originally there. This is really making trouble! This is just musical terms of individual and depends on how you want to interpret it. If you don't believe it by using all your "Engineering knowledge" on HIFI, then I think there's only 1 way to find out and confirm your thought is by purchasing one (Ofcos you need to purchase a pair, just saying in case someone would like to pin point on vocabulary again.) and test it yourself. If you do not want to purchase, then it's either you choose to believe it or just take this as any other sh** (Review) and don't smell it! It's just so simple! don't think too much and enjoy your system. |
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Apr 26, 2011 7:07:57 GMT -5
Hawk 14: If you are using the UPA-1s for HT duty as well, the extra power may well be used/of benefit in very dynamic scenes. Do the UPA-1s have more secondary capacitance too? That's one of the reasons I like them, they sound great for music and still have the punch/headroom for HT. At a similar base volume level, I am pretty sure something like "The Way of The Warrior" will give the amps and speakers more of a work out than Diana Krall and friends.  |
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Post by hawk14 on Apr 26, 2011 8:13:22 GMT -5
Nemesis, I didn't do any critial listening for home theater, as I was confident that the UPA-s would be fine in that realm. I have no doubt that they will be able to "bring the noise" when the time comes for movies and sports.
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Post by monkumonku on Apr 26, 2011 8:59:18 GMT -5
I have a question, since I like to make trouble. ;D If the UPA-1 is "slightly on the warm side" then how can that be consistent with its being "neutral and reproduced faithfully to the source?" It would seem that if it had a warm character then that would be adding something to the source that wasn't originally there. This is really making trouble! This is just musical terms of individual and depends on how you want to interpret it. If you don't believe it by using all your "Engineering knowledge" on HIFI, then I think there's only 1 way to find out and confirm your thought is by purchasing one (Ofcos you need to purchase a pair, just saying in case someone would like to pin point on vocabulary again.) and test it yourself. If you do not want to purchase, then it's either you choose to believe it or just take this as any other sh** (Review) and don't smell it! It's just so simple! don't think too much and enjoy your system. Oh, I wasn't doubting the excellence of the UPA-1 - I am an Emo fanboy. ;D My point was that you said the sound is "neutral and reproduced faithfully to the source" which I interpret to mean that it is an accurate amp, one that is like the "straight wire with gain" that an amp should be. But then you also characterize it as having a "warm" sound. By use of the word "warm" that implies the sound has a character and therefore it can't be neutral and faithful to the source because "warm" would color it. Regarding the UPA-1, I believe all of your high praise for it. |
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Post by stuofsci02 on Apr 26, 2011 10:44:18 GMT -5
This is really making trouble! This is just musical terms of individual and depends on how you want to interpret it. If you don't believe it by using all your "Engineering knowledge" on HIFI, then I think there's only 1 way to find out and confirm your thought is by purchasing one (Ofcos you need to purchase a pair, just saying in case someone would like to pin point on vocabulary again.) and test it yourself. If you do not want to purchase, then it's either you choose to believe it or just take this as any other sh** (Review) and don't smell it! It's just so simple! don't think too much and enjoy your system. Oh, I wasn't doubting the excellence of the UPA-1 - I am an Emo fanboy. ;D My point was that you said the sound is "neutral and reproduced faithfully to the source" which I interpret to mean that it is an accurate amp, one that is like the "straight wire with gain" that an amp should be. But then you also characterize it as having a "warm" sound. By use of the word "warm" that implies the sound has a character and therefore it can't be neutral and faithful to the source because "warm" would color it. Regarding the UPA-1, I believe all of your high praise for it. Agreed.. If you want your review to carry any weight don't contradict yourself in the same line. |
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