Boy, do these look nice........

[Porscheguy]

www.hometheater.com/content/vienna-acoustics-beethoven-baby-grand-speaker-system

[Pauly]

Yes sir! I've always been a fan of Vienna styling.

Anybody know if their subs are any good?

[Deleted]

Jul 21, 2011 21:40:21 GMT -5 Pauly said:

Yes sir! I've always been a fan of Vienna styling.

Anybody know if their subs are any good?

Their sub is less than stellar, just look at the measurements. The sub is down -3dB's at 35Hz and down -6dB's at 45Hz! That is a 58 lb sub for $3500 and the response curve of an Amazon $300 sub.! Typical European sub that does nothing but cover the poor low bass response of the L&R mains. Look at the chart below and see what I mean.







The Beethoven Baby Grand ($4500/pr) is down -3dB's at 59Hz. (yeah, it rolls off quite slowly below that to -6dB's at 32Hz). The L&R mains have better response at 32Hz than the sub!

I noted with interest when I saw this thread because I just read this review at dinner. I was amazed at the performance of this speaker system for $11,250! Yes, I understand how Ed and others consider this a beautiful looking system, although for me the finish is not my cup of tea.

My huge disappointment stems from the price/performance of this system. I hate to use the generalization but I do find that many times European systems are overpriced in the US. The tendency, with some exceptions, is for limp subs that do not extend much below the mains. I see this over and over in these reviews. I do like the reviews here due mainly for the reason that they give some objective measurements to go along with the exaggerated review text. Having read thousands of reviews over the years I've become fairly good at reading between the lines. HT is as bad as any of them except for the measurements which give some indication of the actual performance. The "top pick" here is undeserved although many of the top picks are a stretch.

We have a L&R tower here that is fairly hefty at 65 lbs and seems to have very good quality build and parts. However IMO the performance leaves a lot to be desired for this price level. If you read carefully the review text you will see what I mean.

..........Most of the first page and a half are about WAF and Vienna's claims. Then it gets into the first part that hit me after I saw the graph: "it also has a nicely extended and airy top end, free of grain and unpleasant etch" I would presume it would have an airy top end (from looking at the graph) which I think many folks would describe maybe more accurately as elevated and bright. it would seem that the quality of the tweeter is what keeps it from becoming unpleasant although it is definitely peaked in the 12kHZ-14kHz range or so. I'm sure that gives many listeners the perception of very nice highs.

.........."without producing bass congestion and excessive bottom-end warmth." Maybe not excessive but somewhat elevated in the 60-90Hz range.

.........."they sound very similar to my distant memories of the bigger Beethoven Concert Grands. However, they seemed to produce less of a presence-region dip than I remember, although that characteristic is still there." There are some fairly significant dips and peaks for this class of speaker IMO. Notice peaks at about 1.2kHz and 13kHz and a 2.9kHz. They certainly are not too severe but surely audible in the 4-5dB range.

.........."$11,250 isn’t exactly pocket change. On the other hand, that’s not an excessive amount for fine furniture. Here you get beautifully finished furniture that sounds good, too." Seems to be stretching to be complimentary.

.........."Principal Grand subwoofer goes effortlessly down into the subterranean region." He calls down about 6 dB's at 35hz and about 10 dB's at 20Hz subterranean? The sub actually peaks at about 70dB's and roll off quite smoothly below that. That's performance I expect to see from a decent quality tower.

.........."there are those for whom the Baby Grand’s smooth, forgiving character—largely the result of that aforementioned presence-region dip—would seem to deviate too far from flat. That’s the Vienna Acoustics sonic signature. They’re not “accurate” in the classic, technical sense. But they are musical, and if you can spend the money for a meticulously built, superbly engineered surround sound system that strives for both physical and sonic beauty (though perhaps sacrificing tonal linearity in the process), the Vienna Acoustics Beethoven Baby Grand system should be on your short list..........." This reminds me of the final paragraph in most of Julian Hirsch's reviews at the old Stereo Review. In other words nothing to write home to Mom about.


OK, what am I doing here? Trying to trash Vienna speakers? No, not at all. I just simply happened to read this read a few hours ago and it is fresh in my mind as an age old type of review on an expensive speaker system (at least to me) that leaves me very disappointed in the performance versus the price and high quality cabinet. Leave a speaker such as the Emo 8.3 aside for now as we will apparently be able to read a HT review on it in the near future. I believe there are many speakers sold at B&M stores in the US that perhaps have superior performance at a significantly lower price. Perhaps HT is a little loose passing out the top pick designations. I'm sure the Vienna speakers do sound quite good but oh the graph is so bumpy. Look at the difference between the L&R, the C and the surrounds!


Still think I'm picking on Vienna Acoustics? Wait until I move onto a $2700 Onkyo receiver that puts out a whopping 79 watts per channel into 8 ohms with all 5 channels operating. ;D

I know nothing will change this situation, I just hope folks will read these reviews very carefully and please do look closely at the measurements

(I'm retired folks, I had nothing better than to jump on HT's review). Now off to take my Geritol and heat up the hot water bottle (it's cold out here in Seattle!).

;D ;D ;D


PS: Ed, please quite calling the other folks here boy!

[BillBauman]

chuckienut, I find your insights here to be valuable and well thought-out. Thanks for taking the time, retired or not. I found your review of the speakers, unheard, to be more valuable than the review itself.

[ausman]

I would have to agree with you chuckie, people tend over inflate themselves when they give reviews on on specific things like speakers and so for it is nice to a honest opinion from somebody, reading most reviews ht mags give thing 3 quarters sounds like a boffin speech of the lit given by that particular Co, not an honest opinion by the reviewer..

it's interesting when you sample said speaker within your own ht setup and end up with a different opinion to what the ht mag has actually given it..


I find when you use mid ranges for subs I would say you would get minimal bass response anyway..

I would say the europeans like less watt with radiant sound..
I bet me bottom dollar chuck add those speakers on an emo amp you wouldn't get to 0 before you blew them..
half the cost of european speakers goes into the wood veneer they use..

build anything out of mdf 9/10 you'll get poor sound, now make it the cabinet out of real hard woods then you may hear something different..

my opinion these set of speakers are nothing but a trophy to be admired from afar not to actually use them for a listening piece to listen to music or ht with.. they look purdy to look at, someone who buys alot of shoes would like this setup, though for my listening ears i'd say it's a waste money for the sound they give out..

[Deleted]

Actually MDF and baltic birch plywood are the two best materials for building cabinets. So called "real wood" is hardly ever used because it's resonant.

[Nemesis.ie]

I don't like the look nor the response graphs.

[djoel]

I've heard them in a show room, never been impress by what I heard. They do look nice, they're tiny in comparison to what I've owned currently and in the pass.


Djeol

[Porscheguy]

Hey, I just said they look nice.....

[indyscammer]

Just waiting for Bigred to chime in....he likes both the look AND the sound.

[cgolf]

Definitely not my cup of tea either but hey, what do I know?? I'm a fan of Axioms!!!! ;D

[DYohn]

They sound great for music.

[Deleted]

... as long as the music doesn't have much bass.

[Wideawake]

I've also heard these in a showroom and did not like their looks or their SQ. They look better in pictures. But then, I'm not one for the furniture look anyway. I don't care for the wood look on audio equipment. That frequency chart looks horrible. I don't care for a flat response but the 8 to 10 dB changes certainly can't sound good. I like about a 3 dB hump from 100 - 300 Hz and also from 1K to 3K Hz and then a rising response from about 14K Hz upward (since I can't hear much of the high frequencies). ;D

[monkumonku]

Never heard them but I don't like that finish at all. I'd rather have the Emo satin black look.

[savjac]

Jul 22, 2011 1:57:15 GMT -5 @chuckienut said:

(I'm retired folks, I had nothing better than to jump on HT's review). Now off to take my Geritol and heat up the hot water bottle (it's cold out here in Seattle!).

;D ;D ;D

Wow what an excellent review without having ever heard the speakers

I actually love the sound of these guys. Very sweet, very smooth and they really flesh out the sound of music in a way very few other speakers I have heard do. On paper they may have weaknesses and in person they did as well, but not to the point shown on the graphs. They made this old dork smile a good bit.

[hemster]

Well, I haven't heard these speakers. They do look nice though!

I'm as likely to go out and buy these as the new Ferrari I read bout in Car and Driver. It too looks 'nice' but remains as elusive (affordability-wise) as these nice speakers.

[Deleted]

Aug 28, 2011 18:02:34 GMT -5 savjac said:

Jul 22, 2011 1:57:15 GMT -5 @chuckienut said:

(I'm retired folks, I had nothing better than to jump on HT's review). Now off to take my Geritol and heat up the hot water bottle (it's cold out here in Seattle!).

;D ;D ;D

Wow what an excellent review without having ever heard the speakers

I actually love the sound of these guys. Very sweet, very smooth and they really flesh out the sound of music in a way very few other speakers I have heard do. On paper they may have weaknesses and in person they did as well, but not to the point shown on the graphs. They made this old dork smile a good bit.

I hear you! I enjoy the mental exercise of trying to evaluate a speaker by reviews and their test measurements as well as reading between the lines of subject review comments. Most times I feel I get a fairly accurate sense of their real SQ but can be way off as we all know. I guess it is just a semi-educated guess. However, a listen in a dealers showroom is also a guess as what they will sound like in your room as the room acoustics are so important. All part of the fun of this sport.

Two speakers with identical test results can of course sound quite different. To me this is just an initial tip off as to how they might perform, but hopefully somewhat valid.

[paintedklown]

WOW! Excellent review Chuckie. Seriously, I found it to be more revealing of these speakers performance than the professional write up. Not knocking the guy who did the review, but Chuckies assessment makes sense, and seems to be quite accurate, based on the graphs and specs of the speakers.

I too agree that these speakers LOOK amazing. I feel they are overpriced as far as performance is concerned however. For the same money, you could get speakers that are much more accurate sounding.

[thepcguy]

Jul 22, 2011 3:50:15 GMT -5 @theresa said:

Actually MDF and baltic birch plywood are the two best materials for building cabinets. So called "real wood" is hardly ever used because it's resonant.

The wood they're using, are they from India? ;D