hemster
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...still listening... still watching
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Post by hemster on Aug 9, 2011 17:19:36 GMT -5
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Post by orangeLollies on Sept 8, 2011 23:01:44 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2011 5:17:11 GMT -5
this is very timely help as I wait for the x-ref 12s. thanks!
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Post by wisconsinite on Feb 18, 2012 8:16:59 GMT -5
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Post by jlafrenz on Feb 18, 2012 9:05:53 GMT -5
When you co-locate subs you will increase the output. Have you looked into any EQ's for your subs?
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Feb 18, 2012 9:51:32 GMT -5
Unless you have your components selected before hand, and your music or theather room designed and built from the ground up, you will have to be prepared to live with compromises when it comes to sub & speaker placements. And this will be moreso if your theater is located in a shared living space. My home theater is located in our living room. I can't afford to have my subs projected out into walking areas with power cord and I/C stretching across the tiled floor. Residents and visitors must have clear, safe walking spaces. Therefore, just as my surrounds are anchored to the walls in fixed positions, so must the LCR and subs located conveniently and permanently. What is my solution for those compromises? I plan to use excellent subs that can output progdigious SPL even from less than ideal locations, and get a good sub & Room Correction System(s). And that is the reason I can't wait to get my hands on TacT RCS, especially that you can make manual tweaks after the auto correction. This is like a wet dream come through.
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Post by wisconsinite on Feb 18, 2012 9:53:05 GMT -5
When you co-locate subs you will increase the output. Have you looked into any EQ's for your subs? No I have not looked into an EQ for the subs |
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Feb 18, 2012 10:00:11 GMT -5
Sub placement can be so problematic that you can't afford not to have a good EQ system for the subs. Velodyne has a stand alone system, so are DSPeaker AntiMode and Mini DSP.
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Post by wisconsinite on Feb 18, 2012 11:00:08 GMT -5
Sub placement can be so problematic that you can't afford not to have a good EQ system for the subs. Velodyne has a stand alone system, so are DSPeaker AntiMode and Mini DSP. who make the better unit , your thinking I will gain by purchasing EQ system > Does the go between my 5508 pre and the subs ? |
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Feb 18, 2012 11:28:59 GMT -5
I don't know much about the Velodyne SMS. But the Mini-DSP and the AntiMode do go between the sub out on the pre/pro/avr and the subs. The mini-dsp required a computer and is more flexible, but the antimode does not. I am using the Antimode with excellent results. You can PM Nemesis.ie for excellent tutorial on how to use the mini-dsps
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Post by Topend on Feb 18, 2012 17:15:40 GMT -5
I had an SMS-1 but sold it recently. It is an excellent sub PEQ and user friendly.
I sold it after the last UMC-1 FW update and purchased a Dayton Omnimic.
I found the bass management in the UMC-1 is much improved with the last FW and use the Omnimic to fine tune after running EmoQ.
Dave.
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Post by orangeLollies on Feb 19, 2012 2:23:27 GMT -5
I have tried placing my subs in 3 different locations , if I do the crawl test the bass is huge in the front left corner of the room. I don't even need a SPL to find this spot , question is If I stack them like in the picture it looks like you know what , if I place them like in the other 2 pictures bass is very very week , so the best place is in the corner. I know 2 subs are better than one but I'm thinking if there stacked in the same corner Im not gaining balance just output, maybe I should just have 1 in the corner and sell the other ? Hi a1uc, the links in the first two posts are focused on active mode cencellation for control of low freqs in small rooms. The ideal placements for two subs are front-center and rear-center, with SPL and phase matching applied along with a bit of EQ... I have tested this method in my own room with borrowed subs and the results were jaw-dropping. However, these methods only provide around 80% coverage for flat response, with the boundaries being the other 20% where peaks still exist. Unfortunatley in your case, being seated at the rear boundary you will always experience poor (or at least less-than perfect) bass response... it's physics, and you cant change it. I know you had some lengthy discussions with Bob/LOTR/Northstar regarding your speaker placement issues in another thread... Unfortunattley unless you can sit futher into the room, yer at a serious disadantantage. I would try a sub at the front and the other at the rear, or half way along your side wall... with some good sub EQ as others have suggested - the miniDSP's are are very good option... You'll prob need some serious EQ applied to tame those boundary peaks, but it's probably gonna be as good as you'll get. OR, just spin the room 90-degrees and sit in the middle!  (I do know you ruled out that option in the past, which is why I never bothered to speak up) In saying all this, it may well be possible to have great bass at the boundaries, if so, you probably need very deep pockets and a crew of expert room acoustic engineers and builders...? |
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Post by wisconsinite on Feb 19, 2012 9:18:59 GMT -5
I have tried placing my subs in 3 different locations , if I do the crawl test the bass is huge in the front left corner of the room. I don't even need a SPL to find this spot , question is If I stack them like in the picture it looks like you know what , if I place them like in the other 2 pictures bass is very very week , so the best place is in the corner. I know 2 subs are better than one but I'm thinking if there stacked in the same corner I'm not gaining balance just output, maybe I should just have 1 in the corner and sell the other ? Hi a1uc, the links in the first two posts are focused on active mode cencellation for control of low freqs in small rooms. The ideal placements for two subs are front-center and rear-center, with SPL and phase matching applied along with a bit of EQ... I have tested this method in my own room with borrowed subs and the results were jaw-dropping. However, these methods only provide around 80% coverage for flat response, with the boundaries being the other 20% where peaks still exist. Unfortunatley in your case, being seated at the rear boundary you will always experience poor (or at least less-than perfect) bass response... it's physics, and you cant change it. I know you had some lengthy discussions with Bob/LOTR/Northstar regarding your speaker placement issues in another thread... Unfortunattley unless you can sit futher into the room, yer at a serious disadantantage. I would try a sub at the front and the other at the rear, or half way along your side wall... with some good sub EQ as others have suggested - the miniDSP's are are very good option... You'll prob need some serious EQ applied to tame those boundary peaks, but it's probably gonna be as good as you'll get. OR, just spin the room 90-degrees and sit in the middle! (I do know you ruled out that option in the past, which is why I never bothered to speak up) In saying all this, it may well be possible to have great bass at the boundaries, if so, you probably need very deep pockets and a crew of expert room acoustic engineers and builders...? or half way along your side wall is not an option on the right there is no side wall on the left is a fire place , I'm pretty much at the point of selling most of my gear there is no sense of having that much money tied if you not getting any benefit out of it , I already have a buyer for the 5508 I will replace that with a UMC-1 I also have someone that want one of the subs , I'm not sure on the rest. I looked at my paper work this morning I have around 12k into this setup with the TV etc I could get the same sound for 1/2 of that if not less . My room unless I spin it is just not going to work and I'm not going to spin it . Thanks for your input . |
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Post by orangeLollies on Jun 17, 2012 2:30:54 GMT -5
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on Jun 17, 2012 9:32:10 GMT -5
I looked at my paper work this morning I have around 12k into this setup with the TV etc I could get the same sound for 1/2 of that if not less . My room unless I spin it is just not going to work and I'm not going to spin it . Thanks for your input . My room isn't much different than yours, and I have prodigious bass! Granted, you'd spend about $10k for the speakers, though.  |
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Post by orangeLollies on Jun 17, 2012 18:09:10 GMT -5
I looked at my paper work this morning I have around 12k into this setup with the TV etc I could get the same sound for 1/2 of that if not less . My room unless I spin it is just not going to work and I'm not going to spin it . Thanks for your input . My room isn't much different than yours, and I have prodigious bass! Granted, you'd spend about $10k for the speakers, though. Only 10K to defy the laws of physics?.... sounds pretty cheap to me ;D |
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on Jun 17, 2012 18:45:38 GMT -5
There's no defying of physics; SPL is SPL, waves are waves. He has a lot of reflective surfaces, and so do I. That's why I don't have Klipsch (other than I can't stand them in a good room); very, very bright. When you have "bright" speakers in a "bright" room you can just forget about bass. His subs are likely canceling themselves out because of room nodes created by placement and room characteristics in relationship to his seating position. Going to his Paradigms will help quite a bit as they are "darker" than his Klipsch. Taming his room a bit, along with better sub and seating placement will help his HSUs. If he were to replace his Paradigms with Phase Tech PCs (which are bassy to begin with) he'd even have more bass to dial in.
By way of comparison: just finished playing songs from the new Rush album for a friend. He complimented me on how well I had my sub tuned. I told him I didn't have the sub on. I had to pull the sub back to show him that the amp was off. ;D
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Post by hungryears on Aug 2, 2013 16:18:01 GMT -5
Here is an old, yet some what amazing technique for the placement of a sub in any room, with out any equipment.
This will only work if you are configuring One Sub.
OK .. place the sub anywhere either behind your speakers or at an even plane with the speakers, anywhere but in front of the speakers.
Play some Stanley Clarke or other bass filled work, then walk around the room, stopping and listening at many different spots in the listening room. When you find the spot that sounds the best, take your sub and place it right there.
I know .. sounds crazy right? But it cost nothing to give it a try and you just might surprise yourself.
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Post by The Mad Norseman on Aug 2, 2013 16:20:58 GMT -5
Here is an old, yet some what amazing technique for the placement of a sub in any room, with out any equipment. This will only work if you are configuring One Sub. OK .. place the sub anywhere either behind your speakers or at an even plane with the speakers, anywhere but in front of the speakers. Play some Stanley Clarke or other bass filled work, then walk around the room, stopping and listening at many different spots in the listening room. When you find the spot that sounds the best, take your sub and place it right there. I know .. sounds crazy right? But it cost nothing to give it a try and you just might surprise yourself. Yes, that technique certainly works almost every time! But unfortunately, this method also comes along with the misfortune of probably having the absolutely lowest 'WAF' of all sub placement methods too!  |
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Post by leonski on Feb 17, 2014 15:47:42 GMT -5
Trouble with room eq is simple. You haven't done ANYTHING to the room. so, if you put the microphone where you sit….you can get wonderful bass….THERE. But, 5 feet away? Peaks and valleys still exist and might even be made worse by the EQ. Multi-location EQ can help 'average' out the problems, but still not FIx the Room.
In general, a good room needs at least some bass trapping and it would't hurt to have multiple subs….NOT stacked!
for those of you who have reasonablly 'regular' shaped rooms? Google 'Room Mode Calculator' and view and try to understand the results.
My room has 8 sides, is very asymmetric and has an off-center peaked ceiling. I've had trouble finding bass hot spots….but my DEN, on the other hand? A huge bass peak which seems to mean that my den is acting as a helmholtz resonator…..
Generally, the Sub Crawl is done by FIRST putting the sub WHERE YOU SIT….than moving about the room looking for best response. THAN swap the sub into that location and the seat should than have good bass. Placing the sub near your speakers THAN moving around the room? What the heck does THAT do?
Another decent test of bass response? Get a couple LARGE friends. Tall will do. Get the system up and runing with some bass heavy material. THAN….stand your volunteers in the corners. The difference in bass should indicate possible need for bass traps in the corners…which is perhaps one of the worst places for bass...
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