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Post by nirvana1911 on Sept 20, 2011 21:57:30 GMT -5
I set up my UMC-1 and it sounds good, and thought I'd improve it further by running Emo-Q and tweaking it from there.
At the end of the calibration, my movies sound worse than when it came out of the box, so I changed everything back to flat.
The speaker distance, phasing and level seems to be ok.
It's just with the equalizer settings messed up the sound, it's increased and decreased certain frequency bands that make it sound thinned out and "tinny".
Can anyone help out in regards to this?
Thanks.
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Post by 2infinity on Sept 20, 2011 22:28:31 GMT -5
Do it manually emo q has issues
You'll be glad you did!
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doc1963
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Post by doc1963 on Sept 21, 2011 5:24:52 GMT -5
The purpose of EmoQ, as well as any auto room correction software, is to tailor the EQ curve to achieve what it perceives the listening environment to be "ruler flat".
It may, or may not, achieve this goal. Without following up the auto EQing with a manual check using software such as REW, we never know.
However, even "if" EmoQ were to get it exactly right, who's to say you're going to like how "flat" sounds? Many do not...
The good thing about EmoQ is that, unlike other auto calibration systems, you CAN go back and tweak the results (by adjusting the EQ sliders and crossover settings) until you get the sound to match your personal tastes.
Additionally, you can use EmoQ to set your distances and levels and NOT use the EQ settings at all. To do that, just set the "EQ Setting" (in your Input Setup menu) to "None".
EmoQ isn't perfect, but neither is its competition. To not use it because you think it has "issues" would be selling a fairly useful tool, and your ability to use it correctly, too short. I would suggest that you try to tweak the results (as it gives you the functionality to do so) before you give up on it altogether.
Hope this helps.....
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Post by casey01 on Sept 21, 2011 10:48:13 GMT -5
I set up my UMC-1 and it sounds good, and thought I'd improve it further by running Emo-Q and tweaking it from there. At the end of the calibration, my movies sound worse than when it came out of the box, so I changed everything back to flat. The speaker distance, phasing and level seems to be ok. It's just with the equalizer settings messed up the sound, it's increased and decreased certain frequency bands that make it sound thinned out and "tinny". Can anyone help out in regards to this? Thanks. No matter the system, room eqs aren't for everyone. They don't always make things better and sometimes with the final settings, they can be way off the mark. Much will depend on your existing environment prior to calibration. Sometimes the changes can be dramatic, yet, on other occasions, they can be hardly noticeable. I have tried 3 different systems and all of them, to my ears anyway, set the bass way too low. As always, let your ears be the final judge of what sounds good and what doesn't. It is interesting to note, although not regularly publicized, many of the speaker companies who have endeavored to produce as neutral a sound as is possible in their models, aren't too thrilled with the use of these eq systems since, in their mind, it changes the very nature of what they are attempting to do with the sound emanating out of their speakers. |
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Post by kerosene7 on Sept 21, 2011 12:52:53 GMT -5
I have a similar problem with EMOQ. I'm hunting around for a way for me to manually EQ the room besides just "listening to it".. I saw a reference to REW and will check that out. Any other suggestions?
I'm a "N00B" to doing manual adjustments and this Emotiva rig is the best stereo/HT setup I've ever tried to "adjust myself". The only decent stereo I've had before was something I inherited (Door sized electrostatics from the 80s along with matching amp, pre-amp, disc transport,cables etc).
Sadly I had to pass that stereo along, but the *sound* stuck in my head and I've judged everything I've heard since against it.
Any tips would be appreciated.
Setup:
Oppo-95/UMC-1/XPA-5/DefTech Mythos ST (speaker inputs and LFE feed active)/DefTech Nine center/Deftech Studio 350 surrounds
PS. Please don't take this as a knock on the UMC-1/XPA-5. Without any signal molestation, the detail, imaging, depth etc are amazing. My room is a freak of nature though and I do believe it needs adjusted for.
If you care what problem I'm having:
Using a crappy disc player the EMOQ settings sounded much better than without although the whole thing sounded too "warm" to my ears.
I replaced the junk player with an Oppo 95, re ran EMOQ just to be updated. The settings were pretty much the same as from the previous runs but I'd swapped out some cables and shifted the speakers a bit soo..
I ended up with something that was horrifying. Both analog stereo out (from Sabre32s) and HDMI/HT were crazy bad. Bad as in sounding like it would damage the speakers.
I turned off the EQ settings and everything is much better... in that it's not going to wreck my ears, or my speakers, but definitely too "cold/bright" now and not "neutral".
As far as I can tell.. EMOQ was trying to tell me "the room is too warm" but the adjustments tossed some low ends and some high ends up through the roof and dropped some middle freqs as low as it would go.
I think that I need to drop the levels coming in from the Oppo as well
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Sept 21, 2011 13:05:05 GMT -5
Curious as to how it sounded with movies vs music. Many turn off auto EQ like audessy with music because they don't like the sound, but with movies (dialog, explosions, etc) it worked great. I'm kind of old school. If it sounds good with music, then I shouldn't have to worry about how it does with movies.  |
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Post by casey01 on Sept 21, 2011 14:18:52 GMT -5
Curious as to how it sounded with movies vs music. Many turn off auto EQ like audessy with music because they don't like the sound, but with movies (dialog, explosions, etc) it worked great. I'm kind of old school. If it sounds good with music, then I shouldn't have to worry about how it does with movies. Nothing wrong with that. I fully agree especially when it comes to today's lossless audio formats. There shouldn't be a requirement for different set-ups. . |
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Post by roadrunner on Sept 21, 2011 15:41:03 GMT -5
I have been in this hobby for over 45 years now and have used most of the auto room correction systems out there. I have never liked what any of them do to the sound of my systems. I have always been able to manually calibrate my speakers to obtain better results than any of the "Auto EQ" systems are capable of. There are a lot of records, CDs, DVDs and Blu-ray discs on the market made specifically for setting up your system. Of the full featured,visual setup tools available, Avia II and the Walt Disney software are among the best in helping you properly setup your entire system. If you don't need or aren't a visually oriented learner, the setup CD that I have been using has all the software tools needed to perform manual calibrations quickly and accurately. This CD is available from Reference Recordings's web site. Just click on the link below. www.referencerecordings.com/SAMPLE.aspXLO/ REFERENCE RECORDINGS TEST & BURN-IN CD "The Absolute Sound Super Disc List" This is THE step-by-step guide to setting up and fine-tuning your audio or home theatre system. Roger Skoff of XLO Electric (innovators in the field of cables and interconnects) and "Prof." Keith O. Johnson (audio guru and co-inventor of HDCD) lead you through a quick and easy system set-up. Included are tracks dealing with Balance, Wiring and Polarity, Speaker Placement, Soundstaging, Imaging and Depth, Absolute Phase, Component Demagnetization and Burn-In, PLUS a varied selection of RR jazz and classics to show off your fully-tweaked system! (Music includes: "Stormy Weather"; "Shiny Stockings"; GOULD: Derivations; JANACEK: Sinfonietta (excerpts); BIEBL: Ave Maria; WEINBERGER: Polka and Fugue) RX-1000 - 24K GOLD CD ONLY $29.98The RX-1000 has step-by-step written instructions that walk you through calibrating your system. There are no visuals, but I have never found that to be a handicap in using this wonderful CD. It is top notch. I have a feeling that many of those who are currently having trouble working with EmoQ have never viewed the videos that Emotiva produced explaining how EmoQ works and showing you how to use EmoQ to tweak its settings. I feel this is a "must" for everyone new to using the UMC-1. The UMC-1 provides you with the tools to sculpt the sound to be whatever you want it to be, but to take full advantage of this enormous flexibility you need to understand how it works and to know which tools to use and how to use them. This is why you need to view the videos that Lonnie and Big Dan created for your assistance. A good analog SPL meter is key to performing a manual setup/calibration of your system. Right now, Radio Shack is clearing out its analog SPL meters at a bargain price of $14.97 in their retail stores. It normally retails for $57.95 and was selling on-line for around $45.00. Call all the local Radio Shack stores and see if you can find an ANALOG SPL METER before they are completely sold out. One of the biggest problems I have noticed over the years with noobs is they have no idea how to properly place their speakers. Speaker placement has a huge impact on how they will sound. Spend some time on the Internet on Audioholics, Secrets of Home Theater and HiFi, Dolby Digital, DTS, and THX and read everything they have about speaker placement. This will pay huge dividends in making sure you get the most out of your speakers. Good luck. |
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HDSapper
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Post by HDSapper on Sept 21, 2011 16:28:15 GMT -5
You sold me on it Ronnie. When I went to the link I saw that they had a "20% off if you buy 2 items" sale so I picked up the "RX-1000 TEST & BURN-IN CD" as well as "MIKE GARSON's - JAZZ HAT". Never can have too many quality HDCD discs laying around, right?
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Post by roadrunner on Sept 21, 2011 22:26:26 GMT -5
You sold me on it Ronnie. When I went to the link I saw that they had a "20% off if you buy 2 items" sale so I picked up the "RX-1000 TEST & BURN-IN CD" as well as "MIKE GARSON's - JAZZ HAT". Never can have too many quality HDCD discs laying around, right? I am happy to hear you picked up both of those CDs. While you were at it you could have picked up several of their "Samplers" priced at only $9.98 and also got the 20 percent discount on them. The Reference Recordings Samplers are a huge bargain. Great music, all HDCD encoded and selected from some of the greatest musicians in the world. Most of the Samplers have from 60 minutes to 73 minutes of superbly mastered music on them. I am addicted to their offerings. I am sure you will be buying more albums from them. All of their CDs make great "demo albums" when you want to evaluate speakers or other audio gear. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2011 22:57:47 GMT -5
ROADRUNNER RULES!
Post number 7 above might be one of the most important posts in the history of this forum! If we could only get more folks to read and follow this advice, rather than to search for a receiver or pre-pro that has the Odyssey 27 VTX-32 Pro IIxi or whatever auto, sit on your butt and have a beer while the machine sets it all up for you system, that our resident expert is pushing this week, we would have much better sounding systems. I'm always amazed at how many like to spend countless hours arguing whether speaker cable X has more precise imaging than speaker cable Y or whether DAC A has better midrange transparency than DAC B but won't spend a few hours setting up their system to the max using both a good quality auto system and manually checking every aspect or simply doing it the old fashioned proven manual way. EQ's in the newer pre-pro's and sub can be a great help if used correctly.
Great stuff Roadrunner! ;D ;D ;D
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NorthStar
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Post by NorthStar on Sept 21, 2011 23:04:52 GMT -5
Roadrunner, is he that guy from the Emotiva Lounge?
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Post by terrynew on Sept 22, 2011 1:17:23 GMT -5
ROADRUNNER RULES!Post number 7 above might be one of the most important posts in the history of this forum! If we could only get more folks to read and follow this advice, rather than to search for a receiver or pre-pro that has the Odyssey 27 VTX-32 Pro IIxi or whatever auto, sit on your butt and have a beer while the machine sets it all up for you system, that our resident expert is pushing this week, we would have much better sounding systems. I'm always amazed at how many like to spend countless hours arguing whether speaker cable X has more precise imaging than speaker cable Y or whether DAC A has better midrange transparency than DAC B but won't spend a few hours setting up their system to the max using both a good quality auto system and manually checking every aspect or simply doing it the old fashioned proven manual way. EQ's in the newer pre-pro's and sub can be a great help if used correctly. Great stuff Roadrunner! ;D ;D ;D
UMC-1-(pre/pro #1) -FW 7.04.00.07
XPA-5 (The Beast)
Monitor Audio RX6:RX Centre: RXFX
SVS PC12-Plus DSP (Incredible)
Sony BDP-S370
Samsung PS50B850
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hemster
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Posts: 51,950
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Post by hemster on Sept 22, 2011 4:12:18 GMT -5
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Post by marcuslaw on Sept 22, 2011 4:36:27 GMT -5
You sold me on it Ronnie. When I went to the link I saw that they had a "20% off if you buy 2 items" sale so I picked up the "RX-1000 TEST & BURN-IN CD" as well as "MIKE GARSON's - JAZZ HAT". Never can have too many quality HDCD discs laying around, right? I am happy to hear you picked up both of those CDs. While you were at it you could have picked up several of their "Samplers" priced at only $9.98 and also got the 20 percent discount on them. The Reference Recordings Samplers are a huge bargain. Great music, all HDCD encoded and selected from some of the greatest musicians in the world. Most of the Samplers have from 60 minutes to 73 minutes of superbly mastered music on them. I am addicted to their offerings. I am sure you will be buying more albums from them. All of their CDs make great "demo albums" when you want to evaluate speakers or other audio gear. In case anyone out there is not interested in samplers, the Reference Test & Burn In disc sells on amazon for $25.36. Also, that means free shipping for all you non-Prime members. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2011 5:09:43 GMT -5
I just say no to EmoQ. There are alternatives including very good ones that are free.
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Post by toolshed on Sept 22, 2011 6:04:41 GMT -5
EmoQ is terrible. The job of auto-correction - especially they way most people will use it - is not to set things up, make them sound different, and then have you use REW for 8 hours (plus 1-2 weeks of reading if you know nothing about room equalization) to manually correct it.
Nor do I find it a problem to bash emotiva on their terrible auto-correct system. For a company that makes products that are usually beyond compare, at least their amplifiers are untouchable, it is OK to say EmoQ sucks. You simply cannot have proper room correction with one microphone point. Simple as that. It will get you delays/distances, etc, nothing more.
For full disclosure here, I am an Audyssey correction fan.
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Chris
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Post by Chris on Sept 22, 2011 9:49:23 GMT -5
Well took the advice above and ordered one of the Cd's up. Should be here next week. Ill post my thoughts/results after i try it out.
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Sept 22, 2011 15:25:06 GMT -5
EmoQ is terrible. The job of auto-correction - especially they way most people will use it - is not to set things up, make them sound different, and then have you use REW for 8 hours (plus 1-2 weeks of reading if you know nothing about room equalization) to manually correct it. Nor do I find it a problem to bash emotiva on their terrible auto-correct system. For a company that makes products that are usually beyond compare, at least their amplifiers are untouchable, it is OK to say EmoQ sucks. You simply cannot have proper room correction with one microphone point. Simple as that. It will get you delays/distances, etc, nothing more. For full disclosure here, I am an Audyssey correction fan. There are many here that don't disagree with you. I don't consider emo-q to be a auto correct system. Just a decent EQ that will start you off so you can manually tweak things. |
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Sept 22, 2011 16:41:12 GMT -5
Up to 5 yeras ago, I would agree with RR on his post #7. However, I think that home theater / surround audio has advanced beyond manual calibration. If a correction system is going to dictate where I place my speakers, then I, along with most home theater enthusiasts will have to resign ourselves to less than the best. Because, based on the size, shape, decoration, furnishing and utilization of the room, I/WE HAVE TO DECIDE where the speakers are placed.
To the rescue came auto correction systems such as ARC, Audyssey and it's many variants. They give you the best sound possible regardless of speaker placement. And great sound regardless of seating positions. Their downside is that tweaking is severely curtailed. Emo-Q is not a competitor for Audyssey and was never marketed that way by Emo. Those who try to make comparisons should simply drop it!
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