SEALED OR PORTED SUB

[peter71]

I think one very important piece of information that is often left out in these posts, is what have you actually heard in your house. I have had the luxury to demo/own a few subs in my house such as the Paradigm DSP 3100 and 3200, Klipsch Synergy 12, Yamaha YST 150 and now I the Emo Xref 12. Though all the subs are much different (size, power output, driver size) my room and main speakers have been constant.
It really boils down to what you are trying to achieve. I tend to prefer ported sub as I like how they can pressurize a room. The Xref 12 hits very hard and fast but is not my fav at this time.
Also if price is a factor and you can grab a nice used sub (such as Paradigm DSP3200 for $400-450), is the Emotiva Xref 12 at $629. really the best choice?
It's fun to debate, but nothing carries more weight than posts from actual HT/music enthusiasts that are willing to share their personal experiences.

[NorthStar]

With Music I personally prefer a closed enclosure (acoustically sealed) subwoofer, or two. [12" or smaller.]
And with Movies, two vented (ported) subwoofers, at least. [15" or larger drivers.]

And that, is from experience in various rooms over the years.

* Transmission Line subs are also good in the 'ported' category.

[DYohn]

Also, another thought. I could build you a subwoofer using this driver:



And one using this driver:



And make both systems weigh the exact same. Which do you think is likely to perform better?

[NorthStar]

The second one at the bottom!

[selkec]

definately the second one at the bottom.

I do get where you are coming from on the weight thing. But what you are showing is not comparing apples to apples as it was once put.

So anyways. anyone own an emo xref 12 want to chime in here?

[DYohn]

Oct 1, 2011 22:44:30 GMT -5 selkec said:

definately the second one at the bottom.

I do get where you are coming from on the weight thing. But what you are showing is not comparing apples to apples as it was once put.

Sure it is, they are both 12" drivers and I'll make both systems weigh, say, 75lbs. Or I'll make the Pyramid weigh 100lbs if you like. My point is that weight means next to nothing when comparing subwoofs.

[selkec]

The weight means something. obvioously those 2 subs you showed there is a huge weight difference. lol BUT.....just for example compare the subs in the xref and the Ed sub I compared earlier. Im sure you have the info somewhere. I will bet you there is not that big of difference between them. Not like the example you posted. So with that being said and the enclosure size about the same. One can deduce that the Ed is most likely built more solid. Or with thicker material and/or more bracing.

This does not mean it is a better sub from the weight. But it most likely means its built better or beefier. I really dont think its loaded with granite or sand.

[NorthStar]

An accelerometer, a stethoscope and a sinewave sweep will tell the all story on resonance modes and cabinet-wall resonance (enclosure), solidity and reliability. ...And it has nothing to do with Weight.
It's construction intelligence with strategic braces and solid design.
Weight is good, but it's not what affects sound quality.

* And there is a big difference between a ported and sealed design; the port-tuning frequency has to be well designed too without any turbulance.
And the sealed sub has to be totally and hermetically and acoustically and internally soundproof.
Good sealing glue!

[selkec]

I wonder if we can get back on track to the original post. lol

Im sure weight is not really a reason to buy anything. It just made me curious why some weigh so much more than others.

[NorthStar]

Remember some manufacturers putting bricks in their products?

[Deleted]

Oct 1, 2011 23:20:32 GMT -5 selkec said:

The weight means something. obvioously those 2 subs you showed there is a huge weight difference. lol BUT.....just for example compare the subs in the xref and the Ed sub I compared earlier. Im sure you have the info somewhere. I will bet you there is not that big of difference between them. Not like the example you posted. So with that being said and the enclosure size about the same. One can deduce that the Ed is most likely built more solid. Or with thicker material and/or more bracing.

This does not mean it is a better sub from the weight. But it most likely means its built better or beefier. I really dont think its loaded with granite or sand.

+1

[jamrock]

I recalled a pair of speakers I had. For the sake respecting Emo's rule 'not to defame other products' I will only say the name starts with 'W' They weighed a ton but had no low end output. When I opened it up, I realized that the enclosure was built around a piece of 3/4" thick granite or marble in base and a corresponding piece at the top. That alone added possibly 25lbs - 40lbs to the speaker. LOL!

There is also the case of 'over-building' That is going above & beyond what is necessary to achieve the objective. It is a good marketing ploy, because it truly impresses the uninitiated who will pay for what they don't need or can't even use.

Someone's avatar reads: "Inaudible is inaudible and you don't get extra brownie points for making it twice as inaudible as another solution" This principle is also true in other areas. An example would be that; If you can achieve the desired size & quality enclosure with 3/4" medium density wood, no need to use 1-1/2" wood. With the latter, the enclosure would be much heavier but not necessarily better. This is overbuilding that adds weight but no value to the product.

[Deleted]

Well, let's see.

.....We've got the Emotiva X-Ref12 sub with a 12" driver and it weighs 44 pounds.

.....We've got the SVS PB12-Plus sub with a 12" driver and it weighs 127 pounds.





Oh yeah, I do recall seeing on AOL news that there has been a rash of brick theft in the Youngstown, Ohio area.

[Deleted]

Oct 2, 2011 4:57:38 GMT -5 jamrock said:

I recalled a pair of speakers I had. For the sake respecting Emo's rule 'not to defame other products' I will only say the name starts with 'W' They weighed a ton but had no low end output. When I opened it up, I realized that the enclosure was built around a piece of 3/4" thick granite or marble in base and a corresponding piece at the top. That alone added possibly 25lbs - 40lbs to the speaker.

Wose?

[jamrock]

Oct 2, 2011 5:01:38 GMT -5 @chuckienut said:

Oct 2, 2011 4:57:38 GMT -5 jamrock said:

I recalled a pair of speakers I had. For the sake respecting Emo's rule 'not to defame other products' I will only say the name starts with 'W' They weighed a ton but had no low end output. When I opened it up, I realized that the enclosure was built around a piece of 3/4" thick granite or marble in base and a corresponding piece at the top. That alone added possibly 25lbs - 40lbs to the speaker.

Wose?

You're evil! ;D

[selkec]

SO let me get this straight. I was going to drop it but you are convinced weight is pretty much BS. and its over building?

Just answer this. of the 2 I compared. The Ed and the Emo 12. WOuld you say the Ed is overbuilt? I would for onew say not. I would say the Emo is underbuilt. If you are paying the same price or close for a 12" sub. Its the same size and close in every aspect. Why would you chose the one that weighs 25 lbs less. There is obviously something missing. Less bracing. Less of a sub. I say WHY NOT GET THE BETTER or as you call it over built sub if your smending the same. In fact the subs I compared the Ed is over 100$ less.
I think you are wrong. Weight does matter. It is just another thing you have to factor in when deciding what sub you want.
So lets see here......if you had the choice of 2 subs. Different brands. same close to same specs and size and output and everything. But there was one that was 25lbs more. Which one would you choose? the underbuilt one or over built one?

[jamrock]

Once the enclosure requirements are met, look at the electronics. That could then be the deciding factor. Price is worse b/s than weight especially in a free markert economy!

[selkec]

ok time to drop it. I never get a answer so im over it. I finally looked at your sig and realized I was fighting a lost cause. You are going to side on Emo no matter. So anyways......back to the topic

I am not siding with anyone. I love Emotiva equipment. However if I were to be looking at subs I would be looking at companies that specialize in subs. svs, hsu, Ed, epik.

And back to the first post. Get the ported and/or the best your budget allows. Then just turn it down if needed.

[NorthStar]

Some REL subwoofers aren't heavy at all (weight).

The REL T5 Subwoofer weights only 26 pounds, and it is a 'Top Pick' (Recommended) Sub for everything!

And remember this folks: This Sub is Musical.
{Just google it to read praised reviews from all over.}

P.S. And it is a Sealed Sub, with a downward firing 8" long-throw woofer.
In-room bass extends below 30 Hz; which is excellent with 99% of all Music recordings, and even for Movies where most of the average bass impact is in the 40-60 Hz region.

[jamrock]

Weak! Extremely weak! If I don't agree with you despite that facts I have proffered, it is because I am biased towards Emo. When you point the finger at me, how many fingers are pointing back at you? For your information, I have owned Velodyne subs before I came across Emotiva. And no one can honestly question the engineering integrity of Velodyne. I would advise you to go back and read the posts from Chuckienut and DYohn, they both forgot much more about the subject than you and I can recall. Food for thought! The fact remains that weight alone is not a reliable factor in determining the quality of a speaker/sub.