|
|
Post by Golden Ear on Mar 1, 2012 21:48:47 GMT -5
I received my XDA-1 today and set it up right away. I did 2 different connection. The first one was XDA directly connected to UPA-2 and second I used Marantz preamp to the mix. My initial impression with XDA direct connection to UPA-2, I was floored how much clarity and detailed that was not presently on my Marantz CD player which has elevated ops amps and DAC. In fact, Marantz used some of their high technology on that CD player that can only can be find on their reference series. I never heard my Polk LSi15 sound this awesome in my 9 years owning them. I was about to dispose them because they sound bad like MP3. ;D The ring radiator tweeter produce every last ounce of bits on CD's by having XDA-1. XDA-1, UPA-2 and Polk LSi15 match made in heaven! Even time-life music became more enjoyable. The imaging, soundstaging, detail expand from their previous DAC use in Marantz. Now, having Marantz preamp into the mix gave me the same sound I was hearing before and it appear the sound signature of XDA has been bypassed and Marantz sound became the sound signature. I took the Marantz out and now it will just collect dust as I have no use for it. Some people say at low volume it will loose bits and I did alot of critical listening to that but what I find out it does loose some bits on my system at level 10. I find it's volume to be aggressive even at .5 it's sound loud but I made an adjustment on the back of my UPA-2 to reduce the gain and can turn the setting a little higher. At 45, the sound was so loud that my ear can't take it. I'm not sure if my XDA is linear or log maybe you guys can tell me. All in all, emotiva took my hobby of listening to new height! I'm curios now that XSP-1 will be release in few months and wondering if adding that will add even more resolution?
|
|
|
|
Post by garbulky on Mar 2, 2012 0:17:55 GMT -5
From what I hear on the forums the volume issue has been fixed in terms of it being too loud. If I recall correctly, it was only like the first few batches back then. I specifically asked them to send me the one with the fix for high power amplifiers so I know for sure that they did do it for me but I have a feeling all of them have been fixed by now. My speakers are quite efficient and require only a few watts to bring them up to power. Mine are rated around 95 db/ 1 watt. On CD's I usually listen at 20 to 30 and turn it up to 40 on some with good dynamic range (voice sounds softer requiring it to be turned up). Songs with poor dynamic range have to be listened to at 15 or 10. These are mainly pop songs, rock songs, or hip hop songs that I have to listen to at this low volume or it's too loud due to terrible dynamic range. Hitting near 50 the XDA-1 gets quite loud. At 0.5, it's very soft though. From what I see your LSi15 are more innefficient than mine...so Im not sure how much of a difference it is. I never had issues with the volume being too loud at 0.5 volume setting. I still heard audio but it is definitely not loud at all. I turned the UPA-2 adjustment on the back down and tried putting my XDA-1 higher, but I found after some extended listening, doing it this way introduced clipping or a quite audible distortion on moderately loud music/ and the dynamic range felt a little compressed or not quite right. It actually sounded too AGGRESSIVE like you mentioned. I tested it with the UPA-2 volume set back to normal at full and no such distortion occurred and that "not quite right" sound went away. SO, I DON'T RECOMMEND ADJUSTING THE UPA-2 volume control at the back. I believe it was designed for fine tuning an amplifier over small ranges for zoning work and not work as a proper volume control over wide ranges. I would just let the UPA-2 volume stay at full and run it off the XDA-1. If the volume at a low number is still too loud, you can call emotiva and ask them if they are sure that the unit they sent you had the volume level fixed for high power amplifiers. I have a feeling you got the correct XDA-1 though. BTW, if you connect it to a Blu-ray player, you might find yourself turning it upto 50 or 60 because the dynamic range tends to be great! Try connecting it to your computer and see if you have a similar problem. Also, since it is obvious that your marantz was coloring the sound....give it a week to let your ears get used to the new more neutral sound. Sometimes when I upgrade from sound that was colored to better quality sound, I find certain things to be weird sounding.... Like the volume is way too loud and harsh, the bass can be too weak etc. Sometimes, it's just that the previous equipment had a mid-bass boost and poor treble response that I was used to (similar with your warm sounding marantz) so I find myself turning up the volume to get that bass boost, when in actuality, that bass I was looking for was never there in the proportion my ears were used to hearing on poorer quality equipment. So you just keep turning the volume up without realizing that the comfortable volume had been reached some time ago. Also, turning it up can feel uncomfortable because there is very little distortion and great dynamic range especially with the treble. Usually warmer sounding systems let you not really enjoy that treble in the proper proportion. So you don't realize that with a more neutral system, the sound is much louder than you think it is. This increased volume hurts your ears or makes it feel uncomfortable, but your brain doesn't realize it's too loud, because there is no distortion and it is still looking for the mid-bass hump or poorer treble response and thinks it is not loud though in reality, it is loud. So give it a week to let your ears adjust, if you still have problems call Emotiva. You might also find that the bits you think you might be lost weren't actually lost, but adjusted down in the correct NEUTRAL ratio causing the low bass and some quiet details to go below the audible sound floor. Maybe you might not and you might be hearing the bit loss. Over time, I feel that even though the bits are technically lost, the loss isn't enough to be audible and it's more due to the XDA-1 reducing everything in proper proportion and nothing to do with hearing bit loss. But you may find it different. I don't know.  BTW, I am very glad that the XDA-1 sounds better than the marantz. I think that says a lot! Think about what a deal that was where a 250 dollar DAC outperformed a dedicated preamplifier! Wow! Don't forget to experiment with your speaker position now especially with the toe-in angles and distance from the walls (increase the distance). Put some tape down on the floor around the speakers to mark your original "good" position so you can always come back to it if you make a mistake. I sent you a message some time ago about what the "wrong sound" is from the XDA-1. This happens due to the wrong amount of toe-in. Anyway, this wrong sound actually sounds right because the details are still there and the voice appears to almost be in the living room with you. But it's not and the sound can be so much better. The correct sound has to have a good amount of depth and the voice has a transparent feel to it like you can see behind the voice. The transparent feel cannot be described properly and you will know when you hear it. It is very obvious when you hear the depth and transparent feel of the voice. To get this correct sound, it might take a LOT of experimenting with the positioning and toe-in angles of the speakers. (Toe in means the speakers are not flat against the wall but slightly angled inwards towards your ears.) It's also possible you might not need any toe-in! Enjoy! |
|
|
|
Post by Golden Ear on Mar 2, 2012 0:55:56 GMT -5
Since I added UPA-2 to my system, it did provide noticeable in sound quality but nothing drastic like XDA-1. The XDA-1 made a huge change in sound and the transparency was top notch. My Marantz CD player is just being use as a transport and the XDA does the conversation and preamp. I spend more time listening than ever before. Before, I spend 15 minutes and I find myself turning it off because it was too laid back and the roll off in treble give me no sparkle in high. On some music, warm sound does sound good but the rest was history. The Polk Lsi15 does not sound good at toe in because the way the ring radiator were designed. Unlike dome tweeter, they sound awesome in toe in. Perhaps my question would be, will adding USP-1/XSP-1 would give me more resolution on top what I have now? I been seeing people adding USP-1 and I'm not sure if they gain any more resolution or because they have TT. Listening to emotiva product become more enjoyable than anything else in its price range. Is there anything better than Emotiva? I'm sure there are but with price that we don't want to pay. All of us who purchase emotiva want both value and performance. This is exactly what emotiva is giving us. Thanks to factory direct purchase otherwise we all be paying premium price. The built quality is something you don't normally find in its price range. Cheap unit usually have a chassis so tin as if it was made from can sardines. Emotiva maybe slow bringing new product every now and then but when they release a product it's a technical tour the force. Denon/Marantz every year keep putting more feature and those features add more circuitry to the system cause it to loose more signal integrity. Will adding USP-1/XSP-1 would add anything on my system since I only listen to CD at the moment?
|
|
|
|
Post by spurriersucks on Mar 2, 2012 8:16:00 GMT -5
From what I've read adding a USP-1 will give the XDA-1 a littlwe warmer sound. Some say the XDA-1 alone is a little cold sounding. I have both but have not listened to just the XDA-1. Mine is feeding into the USP-1. I'm very happy with the sound it produces. My music has never soundd better. Glad you are also happy with your purchase.
|
|
|
|
Post by garbulky on Mar 2, 2012 9:17:37 GMT -5
I'm really glad that things worked out in sound quality for your speakers! Isn't that great that it can make such a difference?! I too really like the transparency that it has. According to Lonnie, the XDA-1 had some improvements made to its output stage which he considers to be really good. I was worried because I knew you already had a decent CD player and pre amp, so I was hoping we hadn't steered you wrong. So, I'm really happy you are enjoying it. If you have any other digital devices, even a really cheap 30 dollar dvd player with a digital out or a cheap blu-ray player, the sound connected to the XDA-1 will be fantastic. Even your cable box now comes with a digital audio out and the quality can be surprising on some tv shows and movies. For instance Glee in HD sounds really nice especially the later seasons. Even the soundtracks to movies sound really nice. Earlier they used to be just background filler that I rarely listened to. But now I get a lot of enjoyment out of the soundtrack. But the biggest improvement to the stuff you can access is by connecting a laptop or PC to the XDA-1. It doesn't take up space, or require a big tv just the cheapest laptop or PC you can find. Even a second hand slow one will do! You will be able to access a lot of old and new records from www.youtube.com . When you play the video look for the nut or bolt looking configuration button and set the video quality as high as it will go. This will give you the best audio quality that video can provide. All you require is a regular USB cable (exactly like the one that goes on the printer which have two different ends). No other setup needed. If you ever graduate to putting your entire CD collection on to the computer, rip it in FLAC format and it will be bit identical to the CD's. If you don't have enough space, external hard drives are very cheap now and you would never run out of space with them even with thousands of CD's. Then you will need a free media player that can play WASAPI or ASIO mode on your PC. J-river media center will do this for free. |
|
|
|
Post by Golden Ear on Mar 2, 2012 9:48:55 GMT -5
I was surprised when I add Marantz to the mix so I can control the volume correctly was the sound signature of XDA was simply non existence. It just remain Marantz like the way it was before with no change in sound quality. Because UPA-2 and XDA has both high gain, even in low volume that I listen remain its tonal balanced as if I have loudness control. On my Marantz on low level its just loose the fidelity altogether. I google it last night and I find the combination of Polk Lsi and Marantz maybe too warm. This is exactly what I got extremely warm and the treble was simply very low. When I turn the treble control, the sound just become sizzle and don't sound right. XDA out of the box sound right from top to bottom and I don't hear a frequency that being emphasis on any range which is what I'm looking for. I tried many brand before including Yamaha (bright), Onkyo (sterile/veil), Denon/Marantz/Nad (warm) and all of them color the sound. I'm not sure why these manufacturer want to color the sound instead of neutral. I guess it's like buying ice cream what flavor you like. All in all, I will be emotiva fan and will be keeping an eye for their new product in the future.
|
|
|
|
Post by garbulky on Mar 2, 2012 10:05:22 GMT -5
I haven't heard your marantz preamplifier before. But usually the coloring is to make a unit sound better with poorer quality speakers while sacrificing quality on better quality speakers like yours. But sometimes, the coloring is there because some customers actually prefer the "signature" colored sound. Sometimes, it's just poorer engineering/design.
For instance, it wasn't until the XDA-1 that I found the Xenos 3HA headphone amp was coloring the sound in some way. That was a nice amp for the price too! Well reviewed on head-fi.org . It was designed to be neutral, but it's engineering and likely the quality of the components used just couldn't compete with what the XDA-1 was capable of.
|
|
|
|
Post by Golden Ear on Mar 2, 2012 14:07:46 GMT -5
I am glad that I purchased XDA-1 and I thought would regret buying it till I listen to it made me say WOW! The sound was neutral and that transparent sound made music come alive. XDA squeeze every ounce of bits on CD to be reproduce with deep and wide soundstage. I heard many expensive speaker with many different design on their tweeter including dome, ribbon, horn and ring radiator. It appear the Vifa ring tweeter are highly regards that many expensive speaker use it on their design including Krell revolution that cost more than a car $30k and Sonus Fabre are just few that use them. The combination of XDA and UPA2 are nice match with Polk LSi and I will say it one more time, its match made in heaven! Thanks to Emotiva and their engineers for bringing performance withing reasonable price that most can afford. Are there better product out there? I'm sure there are but not the price we want to pay. Keep the good work Emotiva!
|
|
|
|
Post by maximumkahuna on Mar 2, 2012 14:38:16 GMT -5
Is there a "Pure Direct" setting for the pre amp that will just pass the signal through and give you volume control? Most receivers have a mode like that which allows you to bypass the internal DAC. Try that and you may be able to set the XDA-1 volume to 80 and use the preamp volume control. Still...if you like the sound the fewer components in the signal chain the better.
|
|
|
|
Post by Golden Ear on Mar 2, 2012 16:36:50 GMT -5
Is there a "Pure Direct" setting for the pre amp that will just pass the signal through and give you volume control? Most receivers have a mode like that which allows you to bypass the internal DAC. Try that and you may be able to set the XDA-1 volume to 80 and use the preamp volume control. Still...if you like the sound the fewer components in the signal chain the better. I used my Marantz preamp and it has "source direct" features but even that it retain Marantz sound which is very warm to my taste. It even bypass the sound signature of XDA. XDA direct to UPA sounds neutral and transparent than having Marantz to the mix. Karen Carpenter has very realistic voice and the instrument were down right impressive. XDA made it happen! |
|
|
|
Post by audiofile on Mar 2, 2012 17:33:49 GMT -5
So basically what all of you have done is connected your sources to the XDA-1, then sent the XDA-1 output to an AVR or pre/pro, then out to the amps?
|
|
|
|
Post by Golden Ear on Mar 2, 2012 19:12:06 GMT -5
So basically what all of you have done is connected your sources to the XDA-1, then sent the XDA-1 output to an AVR or pre/pro, then out to the amps? CD Player > XDA-1 > UPA-2 Neutral, transparent sound CD Player > XDA-1 > Marantz > UPA-2 Retain Marantz (warm) sound even in "source direct" Finding a neutral sounding unit is not an easy task as each manufacturer have their in house sound signature. I am happy Emotiva has neutral sound that doesn't add or delete to the sound. This is what Hi-Fi is all about with no coloring on the sound. Mass market brand tend to fall in category of bright, warm and veil and hardly neutral. |
|
|
|
Post by Golden Ear on Mar 4, 2012 20:00:53 GMT -5
XDA gave me sound that surpassed my expectation considering its price. I have spent more than the XDA yet didn't even come close. I hope the next DAC would enhance what its strength even further and incorporate analog volume. I hope the next DAC would be the best regardless of price leaving hardcore audiophile nothing more to desire.
|
|
