B&W 805 nautilus. Which amp?

[sounder]

I'm adding a pair of 805 nautilus to my two channel system. Currently I have a USP1 and a UPA2 running with a project turntable. Do you think the UPA is powerful enough with the 805s? I'm considering moving to two UPA1 monos or an xpa2.

Anyone have these? What do you run? Anyone use the UPA2 with their nautilus b&ws?

[roadster]

B&W Nautilus = XPA amps. Case closed

[knucklehead]

Before you jump up and buy a new amp at least give the UPA-2 a try. It is more capable than most give it credit for. And if it does come up short the UPA-1 mono's should provide more than enough ump.

[roadrunner]

Sounder,

Before attempting to answer that question I would like to know the dimensions of your listening room, the layout of the room and its furnishings, the distance from your speakers to your listening spot, and what your listening habits are (genre of your music and volume level). The UPA-2 may be all that you need, depending on your answers to my questions.

The next thing I would ask is, "What are your budgetary restrictions?" If buying XPA-1 mono blocks will not put a strain on your budget, I would recommend that you purchase them to ensure your 805s sound their best. If your budget hasn't room for both the 805s and the XPA-1s I would recommend you purchase the UPA-1 mono blocks. The UPA-1 uses the same amp module as the XPA-5 so would offer very similar performance at a lower price.

Any of the Emotiva amps will provide excellent sound quality and all are capable of driving the B & W 805 speakers. Your decision on which amp to choose should be based on the factors mentioned above. You are likely to love the sound no matter what your choice is. Enjoy your new toys.

[Deleted]

All SS amps sound the same. Some play louder than others without clipping. Why? because they have a higher wattage rating.

I just think it so funny when people post questions like this...... How will my x speakers sound with a whatever amp. lol

Your speakers do not by any means care what amp they are hooked up to. Nor do they care how much wattage they can put out. Unless they are driven hard. Which in this case you would want a higher powered amp.

If you think your amp sounds better than a different amp. It will sound better. Because your mind is telling you it sounds better.

There is no difference in sound quality between a Behringer amp (couple hundred bucks) and a FM Acoustics amp ($100,000+)

[sounder]

My room is fairly large, like 26x30 l-shape with open stairs. I think the best advice is to try the existing amp and consider going up to the upa1 pair. I typically listen at low to moderate levels while playing pool or poker. Louder at times but. Never super loud.

Thanks kraemer but speakers that require power will sound different if they don't have enough. Sure a Ferrari and a Hugo can both go 60. But which one is more exciting? The one with adequate power. Clearly the 805s need enough power to really sing. I'm just not sure if the UPA has that power or not.

[Deleted]

I'd go with the XPA-2 or a pair of 1's. They would provide sufficient power needs for your speakers to sing (without clipping).

[knucklehead]

Mar 9, 2012 1:03:50 GMT -5 @kraemerkid2119 said:

All SS amps sound the same. Some play louder than others without clipping. Why? because they have a higher wattage rating.

I just think it so funny when people post questions like this...... How will my x speakers sound with a whatever amp. lol

Your speakers do not by any means care what amp they are hooked up to. Nor do they care how much wattage they can put out. Unless they are driven hard. Which in this case you would want a higher powered amp.

If you think your amp sounds better than a different amp. It will sound better. Because your mind is telling you it sounds better.

There is no difference in sound quality between a Behringer amp (couple hundred bucks) and a FM Acoustics amp ($100,000+)

I agree with this - and so do these people. Chances are the UPA-2 will do just fine unless you want to play your new speakers in the barn. And at 88db efficiency and 8ohms - and power recommendations of 120w the UPA-2 seems to be well suited to these speakers. Any higher powered amp (usually costing more of course) is money wasted IMO. Why buy more power if you can't use it? Those speakers aren't Cerwin Vegas designed to play at 120db while absorbing 300w - more like 80-90db and 60-100w - and will sound fantastic doing so.

Update note: fixed the link.

[Deleted]

Mar 9, 2012 1:30:34 GMT -5 knucklehead said:

Mar 9, 2012 1:03:50 GMT -5 @kraemerkid2119 said:

All SS amps sound the same. Some play louder than others without clipping. Why? because they have a higher wattage rating.

I just think it so funny when people post questions like this...... How will my x speakers sound with a whatever amp. lol

Your speakers do not by any means care what amp they are hooked up to. Nor do they care how much wattage they can put out. Unless they are driven hard. Which in this case you would want a higher powered amp.

If you think your amp sounds better than a different amp. It will sound better. Because your mind is telling you it sounds better.

There is no difference in sound quality between a Behringer amp (couple hundred bucks) and a FM Acoustics amp ($100,000+)

I agree with this - and so do these people. Chances are the UPA-2 will do just fine unless you want to play your new speakers in the barn. And at 88db efficiency and 8ohms - and power recommendations of 120w the UPA-2 seems to be well suited to these speakers. Any higher powered amp (usually costing more of course) is money wasted IMO. Why buy more power if you can't use it? Those speakers aren't Cerwin Vegas designed to play at 120db while absorbing 300w - more like 80-90db and 60-100w - and will sound fantastic doing so.

Your link doesn't work

[knucklehead]

Try the one I added. Don't know why that first one didn't work.

[bobbyt]

Your first link has a forward slash ( / ) on the end that breaks it.

I came across that page before, because the speaker they're using are the ATC SCM12s I have in my living room. Neat that they picked them for their amp testing.

[michaels]

Interesting article, but I have to disagree. Some speakers are harder to drive and a good high power amp does make a difference for my speakers. At low to moderate listening levels, I do not notice it but bass needs more power to open up. I suspect the b&w's are similar. Give your current amp a try though.

[stiehl11]

Mar 9, 2012 1:30:34 GMT -5 knucklehead said:

Mar 9, 2012 1:03:50 GMT -5 @kraemerkid2119 said:

All SS amps sound the same. Some play louder than others without clipping. Why? because they have a higher wattage rating.

I just think it so funny when people post questions like this...... How will my x speakers sound with a whatever amp. lol

Your speakers do not by any means care what amp they are hooked up to. Nor do they care how much wattage they can put out. Unless they are driven hard. Which in this case you would want a higher powered amp.

If you think your amp sounds better than a different amp. It will sound better. Because your mind is telling you it sounds better.

There is no difference in sound quality between a Behringer amp (couple hundred bucks) and a FM Acoustics amp ($100,000+)

I agree with this - and so do these people. Chances are the UPA-2 will do just fine unless you want to play your new speakers in the barn. And at 88db efficiency and 8ohms - and power recommendations of 120w the UPA-2 seems to be well suited to these speakers. Any higher powered amp (usually costing more of course) is money wasted IMO. Why buy more power if you can't use it? Those speakers aren't Cerwin Vegas designed to play at 120db while absorbing 300w - more like 80-90db and 60-100w - and will sound fantastic doing so.

www.matrixhifi.com/contenedor_ppec_eng.htm

Not here to argue the point but that study is akin to "Take the Pepsi Challenge" and really doesn't support your statement. I'm sure there are others out there that do, though. As an engineer I would likely be unemployed if I set up something like that.

I will say that not all amps sound the same, BUT, the difference between them are slight. I'll use the same study referenced in the link to prove my point as over 60% heard a difference between the setups. Unfortunately, because the subjects weren't defined (only the objects), the study is left incomplete to find out much more. If you don't hear a difference then you're not missing much. I have an XPA-2 and 5 and they integrate seamlessly in my HT application without being noticed (i.e. my L/R do not sound noticeable different from the others).

[sounder]

Thanks for all the comments. I do agree about the sound of amps... to a point. As long as you have enough (as in the XPA2 and XPA5 combination), they will sound very very similar. Balancing them becomes an issue, but with today's electronic room correction it should be no problem. The question becomes, "what's enough?"

After reading all of this, I think I'm going to try the UPA2 for a while, and later upgrade to two UPA1s. I think the power supply alone will give more headroom, making the amps work less. I don't think there'd be much improvement by going to XPA2, which costs more. Maybe I'll wait for a sale, or find a set in the Emporium.

Thanks all!

[knucklehead]

Until very recently I owned an Acurus A150 amp that I had for quite a while. Going from it (200wpc into 4ohms) to the XPA-5 made exactly no difference with my ERTs. I tried to find the point at which the Acurus amp started clipping but thought better of it - I need to preserve what hearing I have left. This morning an XPA-2 will be showing up on my doorstep - I expect it won't make any difference either other than give me more 'headroom'. The only reason I bought either of the XPA series amps is they were a good deal - not because I thought there would be a veil dropped and the sound stage opened up and deepened - and angels would begin singing.

The point of my posting that link was to show that amps don't make a difference - UNLESS it is driven to clipping/distortion. That isn't a very good DBT - in fact very few examples of DBT listening exist and I haven't seen a link to one yet other than the one I supplied. Seems very few people can agree on what constitutes a good DBT - and some people will flat out tell you they hear things nobody else can.

I hear the term 'headroom' bandied about here quite often - as in 'you can never have too much headroom' (read that to mean power). BS - having 2% or 50% headroom makes no difference - as long as your amp isn't clipping at the levels for which you use it then you don't need more power. Recommending a pair of XPA-1s for a pair of speakers that have a published limit of 120w each makes no sense whatever to me. The OP stated he didn't listen at high SPL very often - mostly at normal or slightly above normal. The UPA-2 should work just fine for those speakers.

And there is this:

www.tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/index.htm

[roadrunner]

Mar 9, 2012 1:20:35 GMT -5 sounder said:

My room is fairly large, like 26x30 l-shape with open stairs. I think the best advice is to try the existing amp and consider going up to the upa1 pair. I typically listen at low to moderate levels while playing pool or poker. Louder at times but. Never super loud.

Sounder

With a room that size and with the open layout/stairs I would tend to think you will want to go with the XPA-2 or the XPA-1 for those times that you do listen at high volume levels. However, I would play some of your most dynamic recordings at the loudest level you are ever likely to listen at and see if your UPA-2 is able to handle that load without showing any signs of distress. If it can, then you are set and will not need to replace the UPA-2 with a more powerful amp.

If you have not already done so, I recommend that you read the reviews by Audioholics and Secrets of Home Theater and HiFi for both the XPA-1 and the XPA-2. Both amps received rave reviews from both publications. I do have a question about your 2-channel set-up. If I remember correctly, the B & W 805 only goes down to about 50 Hz. Do you have a good tight sub woofer to handle the bass frequencies? In a room this size you may find that you need more than one sub woofer.

If you do have self-powered sub woofers, you may not need a more powerful amp as most of the current draw occurs at the bass frequencies. Good luck with choosing the appropriate amp for your needs.

[Porscheguy]

This is the most asked question and its silly.... They only recommend 50 watts...

Any amp. Any brand. As long as its a good product...... Does it make 100 plus watts? Nuff said.

Some guys here will put you through an 82 point question and answer drill.... Like I said, silly..

All Emo amps are the same more or less...


B&W Nautilus 805 loudspeaker Specifications
Sidebar 1: Specifications
Description: Two-way, stand-mounted, reflex-loaded dynamic loudspeaker. Drive-units: one 1" (25mm) metal-dome cooled tweeter, one 6.5" (165mm) woven-Kevlar bass/midrange cone with 1.24" (32mm) voice-coil. Crossover frequency: 3kHz. Crossover slopes: third-order Butterworth alignment with 49Hz cutoff. Frequency response: 49Hz-22kHz, ±3dB. Sensitivity: 88dB/W/m (2.83V). Nominal impedance: 8 ohms (minimum: 4.6 ohms). Amplifier requirements: 50W minimum, 120W maximum. Maximum recommended cable impedance: 0.2 ohms.
Dimensions: 16.3" (415mm) H by 9.4" (238mm) W by 13.5" (344mm) D. Weight: 20 lbs (9kg).
Finishes: Cherrywood, red-stained cherrywood, black ash.
Serial numbers of units reviewed: 3343, 3344. Price: $2000/pair. FS-N805 stands: $600/pair. Approximate number of US dealers: 150.
Manufacturer: B&W Loudspeakers Ltd., Meadow Road, Worthing BN11 2RX, England, UK. Tel: [phone]. Fax: [phone]. US distributor: B&W Loudspeakers of America, 54 Concord Street, North Reading, MA 01864-2699. Tel: [phone]. Fax: [phone]. Web: www.bwspeakers.com.

[stiehl11]

Mar 9, 2012 11:58:44 GMT -5 knucklehead said:

And there is this:

www.tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/index.htm

So, let me ask this again... as I am a Six Sigma Engineer... where is the subject defined? I'll admit, I'm not ashamed, I deal more with smells and color than sound; If I had a dollar ($1 USD) for every jackhole that thought he could smell or see or hear, I wouldn't need to work any more. I once had a "verbatim" (which is what we call a J.D. Power response to their questionare they send to just about every new vehicle owner), "my vents sound like a mesquite grill laser" (no poop). Yes, this person thought he could "hear" sound. So, if we had a room full of these people that could "hear" sound would Emotiva equipment sound better than, say, Bose? Should we do our hi-fi shopping at Wal-Mart?

I quote a famous American author when he said, "there are lies, damn lies, and statistics". Again, I'm not saying that there is a HUGE difference in well built, quality amps. I will agree that the majority will likely not hear a substantial difference. But, this is because of limitation of their equipment and god given ears (money does not equal quality). So, I ask (rhetorically, as I will not argue this point): can you relate to Goldie Locks and the Three Bears? That's about the difference you'll hear in the different Emotiva amps. It's that subjective.

[roadster]

^^^^ My vote goes to stieh11, he expresses very well how I feel about those differences. So, XPA-5, case closed

[cgolf]

Your speakers need reserve power for those "BIG" moments. Get a XPA-2 or a pair of XPA-1s. Overkill?? Sure but you'll never look back and you'll never wonder if you are missing something because of the less powerful amps. Even a pair of UPA-1s would be geat. ;D

I've had all the Emo amps except the XPA-1s. I could never tell any difference in sound, only power.