onkyo and emotiva

[panterapunch]

Hello i just wanted to confirm because maybe i misunderstood a post in one forum.

can i use the onkyo tx-nr 818 with my xpa-2 driving the main speakers and the onkyo the center and rears i think is posible but just wanna make shure

thanks for the help

[Pauly]

Yep! Just connect the XPA to the left and right preouts.

[panterapunch]

thank you very much i was really scared because i got it on a sale and its coming next week

[slermj]

Another Newbie in a similar situation. Recently purchased and love my new Onkyo TX- NR5009 9.2 receiver that replaced a Sony 7.1 STR-DA7ES. The sound processing is amazing and the music quality is a big improvement. To make the wife happy some years ago I agreed to go with seven ceiling speakers. I wasn't thrilled but installed SpeakerCraft Aim speakers in the ceiling and have lived with this arrangement until now.
After purchasing the Onkyo receiver I took advantage of Fry's Thanksgiving special and bought two Polk RTi12 speakers for the fronts and found a good price on the Polk CSi A6 center speaker. Both are on the way and should arrive in the next few days. Unfortunately I will have to live with the four in-ceiling SpeakerCraft surrounds for now and most likely for some time in the future. And now finally my question....Knowing the Polk RTi12 speakers require a great deal of power, I am in the market for an Emotiva power amp but not sure which one to purchase. I'm leaning towards the XPA-2 at 300W per channel but also like the XPA-3 at 200W per channel and also drive the center channel. My reasoning is that the Onkyo at 145W/channel should be able to drive the center CSi-A6 and the 4 SpeakerCraft surrounds. I may experiment and try to utilize the two front SpeakerCraft ceiling speakers as high fronts although they may not blend properly with the Polk front main and center speakers.

I will split my listening/viewing 50/50 between music and Blu-ray/DVD/TV. I already run two Definitive subwoofers (15" and 10"). This setup gave me decent low end and worked okay with the SpeakerCraft ceiling speakers.

Would like your input as to which Emotiva amp to go with. Which will be most satisfying. I intend to play the system loud but not to the extremes. The XPA-2 at 300W per channel should drive the two Polk RTi12 main fronts nicely with the Onkyo 5009 handling the Polk center and SpeakerCraft ceiling surrounds. Or should I go with the XPA-3 at 200W X 3 and drive the three Polk fronts and leave all surrounds for the Onkyo? Will the 200W per channel be a significant improvement over the 145W of the Onkyo? Appreciate your wisdom and experience.

[knucklehead]

The 5009 is capable of powering the center and surrounds very well - it isn't an anemic underpowered AVR by any means - it is Onkyo's flagship AVR from last year. Either of the two Emo amps you mentioned will get the job done. I'd go with the XPA-3 for a well powered front sound stage if movies are the more important part of your audio menu. If music is most important go with the XPA-2. I know you mentioned a 50/50 use but which is more important? I think you'll like either one - I haven't heard of many who thought they were running out of power with either amp. FWIW the difference in power numbers between the two amps is more than the real world performance.

[slermj]

Received telephone call notifying us that the Polk RTi12's and CSiA6 speakers will be delivered today. I'm really excited. Appreciate your reasonnig and advice. I intend to set up the system with the new speakers utilizing only the Onkyo 5009 so I can establish a base level. I find myself listening to quite a bit of music utilizing the Neo: X Music processing listening mode. The sound is full and spacious. This may be the result of compensating for limited musicality with my current ceiling speaker setup. With the Polks in the system I may prefer some music without processing and go back to an earlier period when I listened to stereo without a center channel. If this becomes the case, my music versus video ratio would lean more towards music and then perhaps the XPA-2 should be my choice. In any event I realize either the XPA-3 or XPA-2 can work nicely in the system. I hear the doorbell. It could be the delivery. Thanks for your assistance and guidance.

[chrisk41]

Just a few thoughts of mine. First of all, excellent choice of AVR. I have a Onkyo that is pretty similar and absolutely love it!

The first thing you need to understand is that when Onkyo says that it outputs 145/w per channel that is with two channels driven. The more channels you drive the less watts/channel you will get. I know that TX-NR5008 was said to do 145/w per channel, but once you started driving five channels it dropped to 79/w per channel. With seven channels driven it was even less. Don¡¦t get me wrong, that is still really good for an AVR.

With Emotiva amps they always rate the power with all channels driven (at least to the best of my knowledge). And if you look at the specs they can usually outperform what they are rated at.

If it were me I would buy an XPA-2, for a few reasons. The first is I found I like to listen to a lot of 2.1 music after I get my system setup, and where your mains are so much better than your surround I wonder if that might happen to you also? The other reason is the XPA-2 gives you more flexibility. If you get it and like it you can always add an XPA-5 down the road someday to power all of your speakers (if you upgrade your other speakers). If you go with an XPA-3 it will be hard to power all of your speakers down the road without having an extra unused channel on an amp..

With that said I think you would notice a difference with either amp and be very happy with your purchase as you already have some really amazing gear there

Good luck!

[ausman]

my opinion if you are going to do blind tests between emo power amps vs any of the major avr manufacturers amp output on all channels driven, you would be hard pressed to beat emo's output vs onkyo, denon, yamaha or pioneer any day of the week..

look onkyo's power amps compared to emo and you'll understand what i'm driving at..

so it is no shock when you start to compare amp section of the 3 top end onkyo avr's compared to the output of either the xpa-2/5 combo or the xpr-5/2 combo vs 3/2/2/2 or 3/4/2/2 avr amp section..


if i was running a nine cannel setup I would say time to look 3 xpa-3's
if looking at 11 channel setup xpa-5/xpr-5 and 2 xpa-3's..

you'll be hard pressed to find an avr that could stand toe to toe in power output of either the xpr or xpa line amps from emo..

[audiohead]

I did an A/B between my Onkyo NR-818 amp to my EMO amps and guys don't get me wrong on this but it wasn't even close.Onkyos amp are about as good if not better then most other mid too upper end AVR's.I opened up my NR-818 and what I saw inside,two 15,000 caps and a block design which is good but no match at all for Emotivas amps.Even Onkyos flagship has only two 22,000 caps and in a 5.1 set up it really is not going too give you the dynamic swing that a amp can.Will Onkyo drive a 5.1 or 7.1 set up sure it can.I ran at first just too see my UPA-1's and hookup just the center and the back surrounds too the NR-818 the center was not as robust as before and the surrounds where not as detailed or even as dynamic as when the XPA-5 was hookup.I guess in the end even before I started thinking I could get by with the amp from the Onkyo driving my center and surrounds would be good and for "ME" it wasn't even close.My EMO amps made a believer out of me just how much AVR's over state there power ratings of there output.Just my two cent hope I didn't offend anyone just try too help on this.

[pallpoul]

I had a similar situation and went with an XPA-3 for front L/R and center and a UPA 200 for surrounds. No regrets.

[Bruce]

I also had a simular expierence with my Onkyo 3008.I purchased a XPA-2 and a XPA-5 and never looked back.Emotiva produces the best Amps for the money and stands behind the purchase with a 5 year warranty.I have surplus head room from these Amps sooo much more than using the Onyko -3008.

[sharkman]

I think the Onkyo 876 amp section is more in line with the old 805, which might have been the best amp section ever to be put in an Onkyo AVR. The 876 was probably a couple of ticks off of the 805 as I recall from reading bench tests at the time of purchase.

Anyway, I had purchased an Outlaw 7125 about 8 months ago and found the same result as you fellas. With its 1.6KW power supply(bigger than the XPA-5 even) and excellent specs, I was curious at how it would sound. I found a better soundstage(not night and day better) and better bass control. Recently I bridged channels on the 876 to get 210 wpc on my front speakers. I cranked some music and found the limitations. At volume level "-5", it sounded forced and strident somewhat. No such thing from the Outlaw which still seems effortless.

I love this hobby!

[bootman]

Dec 1, 2012 15:04:26 GMT -5 sharkman said:

I think the Onkyo 876 amp section is more in line with the old 805, which might have been the best amp section ever to be put in an Onkyo AVR. The 876 was probably a couple of ticks off of the 805 as I recall from reading bench tests at the time of purchase.

Anyway, I had purchased an Outlaw 7125 about 8 months ago and found the same result as you fellas. With its 1.6KW power supply(bigger than the XPA-5 even) and excellent specs, I was curious at how it would sound. I found a better soundstage(not night and day better) and better bass control. Recently I bridged channels on the 876 to get 210 wpc on my front speakers. I cranked some music and found the limitations. At volume level "-5", it sounded forced and strident somewhat. No such thing from the Outlaw which still seems effortless.

I love this hobby!

What you describe is a beefy power supply.
It is something that is very hard to cram into a AVR without compromising something else unless you go with a class D or H amp design and pay premium prices.

[jjmatrix]

Dec 1, 2012 15:04:26 GMT -5 sharkman said:

...I cranked some music and found the limitations. At volume level "-5", it sounded forced and strident somewhat. No such thing from the Outlaw which still seems effortless.
I love this hobby!

Some time ago, my brother-in-law decided it's time for a decent HT; I explained a few things to him, one if which was HT duties in a regular room vs a few hours of music at party levels in a fairly large basement (his house) and suggested separates, namely Emotiva.
He decided to buy an Onkyo package: a 7.2 receiver with 7 Onkyo speakers and a sub.
We set it up and he was very pleased with the HT results; last week, he hosted a party and moved the receiver, the 2 main speakers and the sub in the basement. He told me: "You see, I don't need anything else; this is loud enough."
Yesterday, he called me saying that he moved all the stuff back but he needs help to run the Audyssey because now the HT setup doesn't sound right after he changed a few things for the aforementioned party. I went, and set it all up without the Audissey... just by ear.
It still didn't sound right, and I've found that the tweeter on one of the mains is gone.
At this point, I'm questioning Onkyo: if they couldn't match a receiver with their own speakers... how can they be trusted? In all honesty, the receiver sounds decent, but if it was clipping causing the tweeter to go, I (like many others) think the power amp section is not very good.
So... the moral of this true story is that you need to do your homework before buying, and take all possibilities into consideration.

[slermj]

Nov 30, 2012 22:53:17 GMT -5 chrisk41 said:

Just a few thoughts of mine. First of all, excellent choice of AVR. I have a Onkyo that is pretty similar and absolutely love it!

The first thing you need to understand is that when Onkyo says that it outputs 145/w per channel that is with two channels driven. The more channels you drive the less watts/channel you will get. I know that TX-NR5008 was said to do 145/w per channel, but once you started driving five channels it dropped to 79/w per channel. With seven channels driven it was even less. Don¡¦t get me wrong, that is still really good for an AVR.

With Emotiva amps they always rate the power with all channels driven (at least to the best of my knowledge). And if you look at the specs they can usually outperform what they are rated at.

If it were me I would buy an XPA-2, for a few reasons. The first is I found I like to listen to a lot of 2.1 music after I get my system setup, and where your mains are so much better than your surround I wonder if that might happen to you also? The other reason is the XPA-2 gives you more flexibility. If you get it and like it you can always add an XPA-5 down the road someday to power all of your speakers (if you upgrade your other speakers). If you go with an XPA-3 it will be hard to power all of your speakers down the road without having an extra unused channel on an amp..

With that said I think you would notice a difference with either amp and be very happy with your purchase as you already have some really amazing gear there

Good luck!

I am really pleased with the Onkyo and trying to learn all the features that are available. I was aware of the power rating stated with two channels driven although when I checked competitors I found they state power ratings the same way.

I am really impressed with all the good things I've been hearing about Emotiva amps. Your suggestion to go with the XPA-2 definitely has merit, especially if one was going to upgrade surround speakers in the near future and then go with an XPA-5. This makes good sense however I am now running 9 channels at times and would be short one channel. Probably not important and could still run the front high which does not have great deal of content with the AVR. The main problem is my room is not very conducive to wall or floor standing speakers for the surrounds and an upgrade from ceiling speakers is in the distant future. I must admit I was pleasantly surprised to notice my wife studying the Polk RTi12's and commented that they really look good and fit nicely next to our Sony 70" XBR2 RPTV. I guess their still is hope for a surround speaker upgrade in the future.

I'm currently evaluating the new Polk setup for the fronts to determine the urgency of an upgraded amp. The XPA-3 would give me a balanced front/center which is important. I am leaning in this direction.
Appreciate your help in making this decision. After being away from audio for quite some time I'm starting to get the fever. How sweet it is!

[slermj]

Dec 1, 2012 1:47:42 GMT -5 ausman said:

my opinion if you are going to do blind tests between emo power amps vs any of the major avr manufacturers amp output on all channels driven, you would be hard pressed to beat emo's output vs onkyo, denon, yamaha or pioneer any day of the week..

look onkyo's power amps compared to emo and you'll understand what I'm driving at..

so it is no shock when you start to compare amp section of the 3 top end onkyo avr's compared to the output of either the xpa-2/5 combo or the xpr-5/2 combo vs 3/2/2/2 or 3/4/2/2 avr amp section..


if i was running a nine cannel setup I would say time to look 3 xpa-3's
if looking at 11 channel setup xpa-5/xpr-5 and 2 xpa-3's..

you'll be hard pressed to find an avr that could stand toe to toe in power output of either the xpr or xpa line amps from emo..

I'm sold on the virtues of emotiva. Now to make the decision on the XPA-2 or XPA-3 for my next upgrade. XPA-3 starting to make more sense for my situation.
I'm running a nine channel setup and 3-XPA-3's would definitely more than satisfy my needs. Unfortunately I must take one step at a time and consider one XPA-3 in the near future.

[slermj]

Dec 1, 2012 5:45:07 GMT -5 audiohead said:

I did an A/B between my Onkyo NR-818 amp to my EMO amps and guys don't get me wrong on this but it wasn't even close.Onkyos amp are about as good if not better then most other mid too upper end AVR's.I opened up my NR-818 and what I saw inside,two 15,000 caps and a block design which is good but no match at all for Emotivas amps.Even Onkyos flagship has only two 22,000 caps and in a 5.1 set up it really is not going too give you the dynamic swing that a amp can.Will Onkyo drive a 5.1 or 7.1 set up sure it can.I ran at first just too see my UPA-1's and hookup just the center and the back surrounds too the NR-818 the center was not as robust as before and the surrounds where not as detailed or even as dynamic as when the XPA-5 was hookup.I guess in the end even before I started thinking I could get by with the amp from the Onkyo driving my center and surrounds would be good and for "ME" it wasn't even close.My EMO amps made a believer out of me just how much AVR's over state there power ratings of there output.Just my two cent hope I didn't offend anyone just try too help on this.

I'm considering the XPA-3 in the near future for my fronts. Probably not going to upgrade my surround speakers in the near future therefore will need to run my ceiling speakers with the Onkyo NR-5009. I guess some things could be worse.

[slermj]

Dec 1, 2012 10:31:45 GMT -5 Bruce said:

I also had a simular expierence with my Onkyo 3008.I purchased a XPA-2 and a XPA-5 and never looked back.Emotiva produces the best Amps for the money and stands behind the purchase with a 5 year warranty.I have surplus head room from these Amps sooo much more than using the Onyko -3008.

The XPA2/XPA-5 makes a great deal of sense. However in my situation the XPA-3 has merit since I probably won't upgrade my surrounds for some time (if ever) and do not need more amp for my ceiling surrounds. The Onkyo NR-5009 will have to suffice until I can change my media/family room furnishings and architecture. Then I'll convince the wife why an amp upgrade is necessary.

[slermj]

Dec 1, 2012 9:05:11 GMT -5 pallpoul said:

I had a similar situation and went with an XPA-3 for front L/R and center and a UPA 200 for surrounds. No regrets.

This is probably the direction I will take in the near future for the fronts. The surrounds will have to be down the road.