ozz
Seeker Of Truth
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Post by ozz on Nov 22, 2012 12:40:18 GMT -5
Hi all, This started much longer...but I've decided to post another question in a different section...so I'll keep this one short and sweet... I see the term "warm" associated with Emotiva in several reviews.... As a long time "audiophile" I've learned that word can mean different things to different people... To me, the term "warm" typically means rolled off highs....or a laid back sound. Would that be an accurate description of Emotiva gear? I typically enjoy a slightly more forward or aggressive sound....but know that in many gear examples, the differences are very slight... Could a few people that own various pieces of Emotiva gear (amps/pres/cds) chime in as far as the type of sound the gear puts out? Many thanks, folks!  |
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Post by Topend on Nov 22, 2012 12:50:45 GMT -5
Neutral is the most common term used to discribed the Emo sound. I tend to go along with this too.
Dave.
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Nov 22, 2012 12:52:59 GMT -5
For the ERC-2 and XSP-1, I would say brilliantly clear and neutral applies. As does fantastic soundstage.
Other terms "warm" and forward are so subjective so I don't tend to use them...one man's "warm" is just another's term for lack of harshness.
Mark
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Post by geebo on Nov 22, 2012 13:05:35 GMT -5
A well designed amp should not favor any part of the spectrum. They should be neutral. Emotiva amps are neutral.
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Nov 22, 2012 13:30:20 GMT -5
A well designed amp should not favor any part of the spectrum. They should be neutral. Emotiva amps are neutral. Well said  And so should all audio components. All that is heard should be the recording and nothing but the recording. I couldn't agree more  |
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Post by sharkman on Nov 22, 2012 14:03:29 GMT -5
Hi all, This started much longer...but I've decided to post another question in a different section...so I'll keep this one short and sweet... I see the term "warm" associated with Emotiva in several reviews.... As a long time "audiophile" I've learned that word can mean different things to different people... To me, the term "warm" typically means rolled off highs....or a laid back sound. Would that be an accurate description of Emotiva gear? I typically enjoy a slightly more forward or aggressive sound....but know that in many gear examples, the differences are very slight... Could a few people that own various pieces of Emotiva gear (amps/pres/cds) chime in as far as the type of sound the gear puts out? Many thanks, folks! If you look hard enough, you will find some who find they don't like the Emotiva house sound. What I've found is that it can depend on the Emotiva component, your speakers, and your tastes. The USP-1, while being a great option, is found to be somewhat bright sounding by some. If a component is too detailed sounding, some recordings can become unpleasant to listen to. On the other hand, the XSP-1 apparently does not have this possible issue. For myself, I found the XDA-1, when used as a pre-amp, also had this issue when paired with an XPA amp and my speakers, Paradigm Signature S6. I swapped in an Oppo 95 connected directly to the XPA-3, and still had sibilance with some recordings at db peaks of 80 or greater. I then bought a Parasound amp, at which point the sibilance was gone. So I think that system synergy plays a part, and your speakers play a part. |
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Post by audiofile on Nov 22, 2012 14:06:10 GMT -5
I don't ascribe to any descriptions of how a component sounds as I am not sure what they mean. And maybe they mean different things to different people. It is a subjective measurement and I tend to avoid the digging deep into the detailed technical specifications for fear of suffering paralysis by analysis.
But what I DO know is that the Emotiva amps make my Vienna Acoustic speakers sound better to me than any other amp that has driven them. Ever.
Here's my subjective list of what they are, what they do and what they sound like to me:
1. Direct
2. Open
3. Transparent
4. Powerful
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Nov 22, 2012 14:12:47 GMT -5
My thinking (and reading) has always been that problems with sibilance speaks directly to your speakers. Or else, you are using an equalizer to muck up the signal. No properly built power amp, pre/pro or DAC emphasizes the highs of a signal enough to create a sibilance issue. Otherwise, you have a tweeter issue.
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Nov 22, 2012 14:42:40 GMT -5
Before I got the AntiMode 8033S, I thought that my bass was o'k. The UMC-1 did not have sufficient adjustments for the bass range so I made do with what I could do to manually tweak the bass regoin. When I 1st ran the 8033S, the bass sounded weak to me. The 8033S literature addressed this by explaining that this is normal because the "unseen" peaks in the bass region were eliminated and all I need to do was to turn up the bass to my taste. Wow! Did I enter into a new "bass dimension" since then. It never sounded better. Just make sure that you are not accepting "subjectively better" in place of the "accurate" A good component should not compensate for a poor recording. Poor recordings should sound very poor and good recordings should sound great |
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Post by sharkman on Nov 22, 2012 14:53:47 GMT -5
My thinking (and reading) has always been that problems with sibilance speaks directly to your speakers. Or else, you are using an equalizer to muck up the signal. No properly built power amp, pre/pro or DAC emphasizes the highs of a signal enough to create a sibilance issue. Otherwise, you have a tweeter issue. Since there have been several people who report a harshness or sibilance with some recordings it's not a tweeter defect. Otherwise it would still be there with my new amp, but it's not. I believe my speakers have a very revealing/articulate top end which can clash with some amplifiers. Not sure what else to think, all I know is with the XPA amp the sibilance is there and with the Parasound Halo amp it isn't. I noticed that the Vienna speakers mentioned by Audiofile have silk dome tweeters and I think this would blend very well with Emotiva as their own speaker lines mostly all have soft dome tweeters which means they think soft domes work well with their products. |
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Nov 22, 2012 15:18:25 GMT -5
I should have mentioned that sibilance could also stem from poor recording. Remember that a good power amplifier is also a good evaluator of the quality of the rest of your equipment. Amplifiers amplifies the 'bad" as well as the "good" of your system. Sibilance is not an amp or DAC issue. It usually denotes that the highs of the signal are being over driven (defective amps or over equalization) or the speaker cannot resolve the signal. To diagnose the problem, turn down the system. If it goes away at lower volume, it points directly at your speakers. If it is the amp, it should persist at all volume levels.
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Post by weird23 on Nov 22, 2012 15:44:51 GMT -5
Hi all, This started much longer...but I've decided to post another question in a different section...so I'll keep this one short and sweet... I see the term "warm" associated with Emotiva in several reviews.... As a long time "audiophile" I've learned that word can mean different things to different people... To me, the term "warm" typically means rolled off highs....or a laid back sound. Would that be an accurate description of Emotiva gear? I typically enjoy a slightly more forward or aggressive sound....but know that in many gear examples, the differences are very slight... Could a few people that own various pieces of Emotiva gear (amps/pres/cds) chime in as far as the type of sound the gear puts out? Many thanks, folks! If you look hard enough, you will find some who find they don't like the Emotiva house sound. What I've found is that it can depend on the Emotiva component, your speakers, and your tastes. The USP-1, while being a great option, is found to be somewhat bright sounding by some. If a component is too detailed sounding, some recordings can become unpleasant to listen to. On the other hand, the XSP-1 apparently does not have this possible issue. For myself, I found the XDA-1, when used as a pre-amp, also had this issue when paired with an XPA amp and my speakers, Paradigm Signature S6. I swapped in an Oppo 95 connected directly to the XPA-3, and still had sibilance with some recordings at db peaks of 80 or greater. I then bought a Parasound amp, at which point the sibilance was gone. So I think that system synergy plays a part, and your speakers play a part. I used a Parasound Halo amp as well as the XPA-1's with my S6 v3's, the Parasound did not reduce the sibilance. Both sounded the same in that regard. |
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Post by sharkman on Nov 22, 2012 16:01:54 GMT -5
Interesting.
My system was Oppo 95 to XPA-3 amp to Paradigm S6 v2 speakers. With peaks of 80db+ I started to get sibilance with some recordings. Although maybe I am overstating the 'sibilance'. I mostly noticed it when the vocalist(in one case, Martina Mcbride Redbook cd from 2008 or so) pronounced an s at the start or end of a word. It became overpronounced, as a hard ssss. Again, in the exact same set up with a Halo A21 amp, there simply was no hard sssss at the same volume level.
It was repeatable and plain to hear, and with only the one change, a Halo amp, the issue disappeared. As I mentioned, I suspect the Berylium tweeters in the S6. They are very articulate, but that comes at a price. Currently with the A21 the sound is really nice, articulate yet not bright, with a wide soundstage in which the speakers simply disappear. I also made another improvement when I plugged the A21 directly into the wall. A synergy appeared that added a level of live performance, a 3D like sound that showed me what the A21 was all about.
Weird23, did you ever get rid of the sibilance? What did you do?
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Post by weird23 on Nov 22, 2012 16:09:25 GMT -5
Interesting. My system was Oppo 95 to XPA-3 amp to Paradigm S6 v2 speakers. With peaks of 80db+ I started to get sibilance with some recordings. Although maybe I am overstating the 'sibilance'. I mostly noticed it when the vocalist(in one case, Martina Mcbride Redbook cd from 2008 or so) pronounced an s at the start or end of a word. It became overpronounced, as a hard ssss. Again, in the exact same set up with a Halo A21 amp, there simply was no hard sssss at the same volume level. It was repeatable and plain to hear, and with only the one change, a Halo amp, the issue disappeared. As I mentioned, I suspect the Berylium tweeters in the S6. They are very articulate, but that comes at a price. Currently with the A21 the sound is really nice, articulate yet not bright, with a wide soundstage in which the speakers simply disappear. I also made another improvement when I plugged the A21 directly into the wall. A synergy appeared that added a level of live performance, a 3D like sound that showed me what the A21 was all about. Weird23, did you ever get rid of the sibilance? What did you do? Sold the Paradigms and switched to the speakers in my sig, they're finally shipping next week after a long wait for the center channel. I've had Paradigms from the Monitor line to the Signature line and everything in between. Sibilance is just a Paradigm sound trait. Trying going up the line hoping it would go away but to no avail. That's just the way they sound. I usually listen with 90-95 db peaks and the sssss drove me nuts after awhile and had to lower the volume. |
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Nov 22, 2012 16:17:55 GMT -5
Interesting. My system was Oppo 95 to XPA-3 amp to Paradigm S6 v2 speakers. With peaks of 80db+ I started to get sibilance with some recordings. Although maybe I am overstating the 'sibilance'. I mostly noticed it when the vocalist(in one case, Martina Mcbride Redbook cd from 2008 or so) pronounced an s at the start or end of a word. It became overpronounced, as a hard ssss. Again, in the exact same set up with a Halo A21 amp, there simply was no hard sssss at the same volume level. It was repeatable and plain to hear, and with only the one change, a Halo amp, the issue disappeared. As I mentioned, I suspect the Berylium tweeters in the S6. They are very articulate, but that comes at a price. Currently with the A21 the sound is really nice, articulate yet not bright, with a wide soundstage in which the speakers simply disappear. I also made another improvement when I plugged the A21 directly into the wall. A synergy appeared that added a level of live performance, a 3D like sound that showed me what the A21 was all about. Weird23, did you ever get rid of the sibilance? What did you do? Sold the Paradigms and switched to the speakers in my sig, they're finally shipping next week after a long wait for the center channel. I've had Paradigms from the Monitor line to the Signature line and everything in between. Sibilance is just a Paradigm sound trait. Trying going up the line hoping it would go away but to no avail. That's just the way they sound. I usually listen with 90-95 db peaks and the sssss drove me nuts after awhile and had to lower the volume. Bingo! Happy TG all ;D |
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Post by sharkman on Nov 22, 2012 16:18:02 GMT -5
Oh wow, 90-95 peaks! I don't like levels above 85 so I guess I'll be alright. I've got the Monitor 7 in my theater, and again since I don't like higher volumes it's never been an issue.
I guess you don't have the Halo amp anymore either? I always thought that since Emotiva uses nothing but soft dome tweeters in their speakers, they thought that metal dome speakers could be an issue for their amps. But plenty of posters around here mate their Emo amps with Klipsch and assorted metal domes, so who knows.
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Post by audiofile on Nov 22, 2012 17:45:53 GMT -5
One other thought:
The music should be warm, or aggressive or airy or whatever and that the amp should send the music's aspects to you as faithfully and accurately as possible.
I try to remember that amps aren't the only component in a system and that it should all work well together.
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Post by Boomzilla on Nov 22, 2012 17:55:46 GMT -5
IMHO, although sibilance can be caused by a tweeter peak, it can also be caused by other components. I previously owned a pair of Theil loudspeakers famed to being particular about the quality of the treble being fed to them (garbage in = garbage out).
I found that with at least one of my amplifiers (a Crown PS-400) the treble sounded grainy and harsh. When I replaced that amp with an Emotiva XPA-2, the harshness was completely gone with better extension and more accurate sound.
I agree that terms like "warm" mean different things to different people. I associate that term with a clear and present midrange (whether or not the treble is recessed), but obviously others interpret "warm" differently.
I agree with previous replies stating that electronics should be accurate. Not all sounds (or all recordings) are pleasant to listen to. An entire gamut of things added or subtracted to the original sound can be created at ANY stage of the process from microphone to loudspeaker/room interface. Ideally, electronics should not contribute to this addition/subtraction process, but rather faithfully reproduce what they're given.
To my ears, Emotiva electronic components (I haven't heard their speakers) DO faithfully reproduce exactly what they're sent. Many other brands do also, but most often at prices two to three times the price of Emotiva gear.
Cheers - Boomzilla
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Post by audiofile on Nov 22, 2012 18:10:58 GMT -5
I belong to an acoustic guitar forum and one guy was talking about his vintage guitar that had a "warm and woody" mid tone. I LOL'd....
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Post by weird23 on Nov 22, 2012 18:18:50 GMT -5
Oh wow, 90-95 peaks! I don't like levels above 85 so I guess I'll be alright. I've got the Monitor 7 in my theater, and again since I don't like higher volumes it's never been an issue. I guess you don't have the Halo amp anymore either? I always thought that since Emotiva uses nothing but soft dome tweeters in their speakers, they thought that metal dome speakers could be an issue for their amps. But plenty of posters around here mate their Emo amps with Klipsch and assorted metal domes, so who knows. Well everyone hears differently, maybe I'm just more susceptible to sibilance than you are. As long as you enjoy the combination of gear you have that's all that matters right? The Dynaudio's have a soft dome tweeter that I find very pleasing to the ear, you might not feel the same. There's nothing wrong with that, if we all liked the same thing this hobby would get really boring quickly. |
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