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Post by Boomzilla on Nov 22, 2012 18:23:56 GMT -5
...one guy was talking about his vintage guitar that had a "warm and woody" mid tone. I LOL'd.... Hmmm - My daughter has a Masters degree in violin performance, and I can not only hear the difference in violins that she plays, but even in the sound of the bows that she uses! Would I describe these differences as "woody?" No - too many other implications (woodpecker? trouser trout? vintage station wagon?). Everyone's ears and descriptive vocabularies are different, though... |
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Post by sharkman on Nov 22, 2012 19:07:13 GMT -5
Oh wow, 90-95 peaks! I don't like levels above 85 so I guess I'll be alright. I've got the Monitor 7 in my theater, and again since I don't like higher volumes it's never been an issue. I guess you don't have the Halo amp anymore either? I always thought that since Emotiva uses nothing but soft dome tweeters in their speakers, they thought that metal dome speakers could be an issue for their amps. But plenty of posters around here mate their Emo amps with Klipsch and assorted metal domes, so who knows. Well everyone hears differently, maybe I'm just more susceptible to sibilance than you are. As long as you enjoy the combination of gear you have that's all that matters right? The Dynaudio's have a soft dome tweeter that I find very pleasing to the ear, you might not feel the same. There's nothing wrong with that, if we all liked the same thing this hobby would get really boring quickly.  That's true, and I'm just glad to hear that someone else experienced the same thing that I did with an Emotiva amp/S6 pairing. Happy listening! |
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Post by roadrunner on Nov 22, 2012 20:22:22 GMT -5
Interesting. My system was Oppo 95 to XPA-3 amp to Paradigm S6 v2 speakers. With peaks of 80db+ I started to get sibilance with some recordings. Although maybe I am overstating the 'sibilance'. I mostly noticed it when the vocalist(in one case, Martina Mcbride Redbook cd from 2008 or so) pronounced an s at the start or end of a word. It became overpronounced, as a hard ssss. Again, in the exact same set up with a Halo A21 amp, there simply was no hard sssss at the same volume level. It was repeatable and plain to hear, and with only the one change, a Halo amp, the issue disappeared. As I mentioned, I suspect the Berylium tweeters in the S6. They are very articulate, but that comes at a price. Currently with the A21 the sound is really nice, articulate yet not bright, with a wide soundstage in which the speakers simply disappear. I also made another improvement when I plugged the A21 directly into the wall. A synergy appeared that added a level of live performance, a 3D like sound that showed me what the A21 was all about. Weird23, did you ever get rid of the sibilance? What did you do? Sold the Paradigms and switched to the speakers in my sig, they're finally shipping next week after a long wait for the center channel. I've had Paradigms from the Monitor line to the Signature line and everything in between. Sibilance is just a Paradigm sound trait. Trying going up the line hoping it would go away but to no avail. That's just the way they sound. I usually listen with 90-95 db peaks and the sssss drove me nuts after awhile and had to lower the volume. I have found all of Emotiva's components to be exceptionally neutral without a hint of coloration. If paired with neutral speakers Emotiva's gear is extremely accurate and very life-like in their presentation. As Weird23 noted, the Paradigm speakers tend to be bright with any solid state power amp that I have heard them with. I pointed this out a couple of years ago during a comparison of the Paradigm Signature 8 to the Emotiva ERT-8.3 tower speakers. If you elect to use Emotiva gear you can rest assured that they will not add nor subtract anything to the signal sent to them other than boosting the strength of the sound track. Emotiva offers excellent dynamics, ruler flat frequency response, distortion free, life-like performance at a price affordable by most hobbyists. Bang for the Buck is one of the key descriptors when discussing Emotiva's products.  |
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Post by sharkman on Nov 22, 2012 21:05:38 GMT -5
And what other speakers would have a bright top end? It is well known that metal dome tweeters can be brighter than silk or soft domes. And horns are also known to be brighter. The school of thought on audio says you should buy your speakers first and spend the most on them. I think that one also needs to know what sonic signature one's speaker has. And yet all speakers measure neutral, flat.
Also, one can easily read the specs of amplifiers, and both Emotiva and Parasound amps, heck all amps measure flat, neutral, without a hint of coloration and so on. Yet when paired with some speakers, an amp's performance may not remain neutral.
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Post by earwaxxer on Nov 22, 2012 21:59:45 GMT -5
I would say that the 'house sound' of the Emotiva is fairly easy to 'hear', but probably more difficult to explain. Definitely not 'rolled off', but also not 'harsh'. Defined for sure, but not 'thin'. Good staging but not 'fat'. If I had to sum it up I would say the sound is 'mature' beyond its price category! Very 'agreeable'. I think thats most definitely a step in the right direction. Is it in the 'giant killer' category? Hard to say definitively without such kit to compare it to.
What I will say, is that the house sound will probably appeal to most, and blend with many systems.
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Nov 22, 2012 22:02:29 GMT -5
I have heard some speakers I would describe as "metallic" more than "bright"...these would include some Dali's of an acquaintance as well as most B&O systems I have heard. By "metallic", I mean that there seems to be a hard-edged "ring" to notes that should not have such an edge...with the "ring" being much like a triangle (the percussion type, not the pythagorean type) sounds when struck.
When a triangle is played, it should sound like that. When a guitar string is plucked...not so for most guitar sounds!
Mark
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2012 1:55:41 GMT -5
..... Emotiva amps ..... 1. Direct 2. Open 3. Transparent 4. Powerful I have to agree with the lad from OryGun. My Emotiva amp is in no way warm. IMO, most folks who contribute warm or bright sound to the amp are forgetting about their cherished speakers and sound sources. The only amps that might produce solid state warm sounds are those in AVR's or very cheap power amps that roll off on the high end combined with speakers or sources that are also rolled off. Attributing sibilance to amps is also a mistake and IMO usually happens when one gets a new amp and then intently listens with an ultra critical ear. Suddenly they now hear a definite tendency towards sibilance in Norah Jones' voice that I have heard all along even with a very good AVR. It is one of the vocal characteristics that makes her oh so sexy to me and is recorded very clearly with a close mic. I know from experience. It takes a sexy/sibilant person to know one.  |
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Post by sharkman on Nov 23, 2012 2:31:11 GMT -5
My wife never gets sibilant with me! |
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Post by kzone on Nov 23, 2012 2:33:39 GMT -5
Does the U series has the same signature the as the X series?
And how wud u compare the signature of emotiva versus Krell?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2012 8:23:38 GMT -5
My wife never gets sibilant with me! Well, sufferin' succotash! |
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Post by audiohead on Nov 23, 2012 8:58:14 GMT -5
House sound?Warm?..Everyone hears what they want too hear.Direct,powerful,Open,Great buy for the money?Yep thats how I hear and see Emotivas amps."chuckienut"hit the nail on the head,cheap AVR's pre-amp is where the so called "House sound" is coming from.Emotivas amp are Giant killers!Are there better amps out there sure,I don't have 10 g's too find out.Krell and so on would love too take 10,g's from you and tell you See we told you it's the best sound out there.I don't hear it!I have heard a Krell with some really highend speakers and a Tube Pre-Pro and a Tube CD player.Did that gear sound better?Sure it did,15.g's better.If your rich?yeah get the really highend gear I would,but for what EMO's gear is selling for, its the best sounding"House"sound money can buy.  |
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Post by Boomzilla on Nov 23, 2012 9:16:23 GMT -5
And what other speakers would have a bright top end? Pretty much anything by B&W, in my experience. |
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Nov 23, 2012 9:16:46 GMT -5
What is a "House Sound?" I'm really not familiar with the term. I've read about "House Curve" which has to do with room correction. But house sound is really foreign to me. I'd like to know.
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Post by Boomzilla on Nov 23, 2012 9:52:34 GMT -5
What is a "House Sound?" I'm really not familiar with the term. The term "house sound" refers to a family of products whose engineering choices are consistent throughout. The products have at least some characteristics in common that are audibly apparent. The commonality of audible characteristics is referred to as their "house sound." Some examples: Thiel loudspeakers all share Jim Thiel's design choices - First order crossovers, flat and extended frequency response, metal-dome tweeters and, where possible, concentric tweeter/midrange drivers. The results are speakers with relatively wide dispersion, minimum acoustic phase differences between drivers, and the tendency to be highly revealing of any shortcomings of the upstream electronics. Because the sound of Thiel speakers is relatively consistent between models, they are said to have the Thiel "house sound." Another example: The older Altec / Altec-Lansing horn loaded speakers including the A-7 (Voice of the Theater), A-19, and others all were two-way designs that used a broad dispersion horn for the midrange/treble frequencies. The Altec drivers and horns had a distinctive sound & dispersion pattern. This was said to be the Altec "house sound." And a third: Magnepan speakers sound more alike than different from their least expensive models to their most. The dipolar wave launch and vertical line radiation pattern give them the Magnepan "house sound." Some people extend the "house sound" term to include electronics, but I think that the differences / similarities are on a much smaller scale there. Even so, one example would be Krell electronics. Krell was known for their tight control of bass drivers. The Krell "house sound" was characterized by this tight bass. Classe' electronics were (at one time) known for their bright treble. That was their "house sound." Both Krell and Classe' have improved their products over the years, and although tight bass might still be attributed to Krell electronics, the brightness of Classe' electronics is no longer an issue. Cheers - Boomzilla |
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Post by audiohead on Nov 23, 2012 10:42:21 GMT -5
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Post by knucklehead on Nov 23, 2012 12:10:18 GMT -5
Timbre. There is supposed to be a big difference between soft dome tweeters and hard when it comes to timbre. Before owning Emo speakers I owned Infinity and JBL. The Infinity Interlude's are very good speakers with a 1" CMMD - ceramic and metal materials that is thin and hard. But the timbre is nearly identical to the ERTs - and in fact my extensive testing (screwing around!) showed me that the IL36c center speaker actually timbre matched better with the ERTs than the ERM-6.3. Anyone with ERTs and the 6.3 can tell you there is a slight mis-match between these speakers. This was verified as no fluke by inserting an Infinity Beta 360 center speaker into the mix - which is for all intent exactly the same speaker as the IL36c. Same result - a near perfect match to the ERTs and closer than the 6.3. So - hard dome tweeters do not always affect timbre in a different manner than soft domes. The hard dome tweeters in a pair of JBL speakers I had at the same time weren't even close to timbre matching to the ERTs or the Infinity IL40s. During that same time I think I had 2 full sets of 5.0 speakers and 5 or 6 sets of stereo speakers - and an one extra center speaker. I've 'thinned the herd' some - I have the 5.0 set in my sig and 4 other sets of stereo speakers - 2 of which aren't currently being used. I guess what I'm saying is IMO the 'house sound' people hear is either a preamp or amplifier adjusted or warmth or cool sounds - or your speakers. And don't forget the room interactions.
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Post by Boomzilla on Nov 23, 2012 12:20:01 GMT -5
Thank you kindly - I do try. |
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on Nov 23, 2012 13:37:50 GMT -5
...one guy was talking about his vintage guitar that had a "warm and woody" mid tone. I LOL'd.... Hmmm - My daughter has a Masters degree in violin performance, and I can not only hear the difference in violins that she plays, but even in the sound of the bows that she uses! Would I describe these differences as "woody?" No - too many other implications (woodpecker? trouser trout? vintage station wagon?). Everyone's ears and descriptive vocabularies are different, though... As a former Classical musician (clarinet/sax) I hear the same thing. I find it funny when people who can't hear a difference between two musical instruments want to talk about how this or that piece of equipment is more "neutral" or "natural". What are they comparing it to? What is the standard that they use if they don't know what the analog element originally sounded like? And for god's sake don't get me started on the "perfect room". |
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on Nov 23, 2012 13:43:34 GMT -5
Does the U series has the same signature the as the X series? And how wud u compare the signature of emotiva versus Krell? I have no first hand experience with the U/XPA-x00 series amps. With the previous U/XPA-X series, I found the UPA and XPA amps to be similar in sound with the XPA-2 and XPA-1 having a slightly different sonic signature. I have not compared, side by side with the same equipment, Krell amps vs. Emotiva amps. |
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