XPA-5 BARE WIRE OR BANANA PLUGS?

[Deleted]

Bi-wiring = waste of good cables and money. But hey, if it makes you *feel* good, go for it. But you'd be much better off listening to what Chuckster advised...

-RW-

[mkohman]

Dec 1, 2012 13:04:24 GMT -5 @rlw said:

Bi-wiring = waste of good cables and money. But hey, if it makes you *feel* good, go for it. But you'd be much better off listening to what Chuckster advised...

-RW-

Thanks for your negativity however it is not a waste of time, money or cables as I already have extra cable length and the time so all I needed was the stackable banana plugs which I used in the pictures but they seem a little too cheap .. so I purchased these instead yesterday and will be using these instead when they arrive on tuesday

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Zero3-Series-Banana-Plugs-x10-Gold-Plated-4mm-Speaker-Cable-Connectors-/160874122442?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:GB:3160

I will be inserting both cables through the side of the plugs this time.. so I will be using 1 plug with two + and another plug with two - cables inserted in the side.. what do you guys think!

Also there is a thread which explains that bi-wire and bi-amping is worth the time and effort.. Anyone who is interested can read the link below if you like

www.soundstage.com/synergize/synergize031998.htm

Thanks for your time

[thepcguy]

Personally I don't believe in bi-wiring too.

A link that might be of interest is below:

www.sonicdesign.se/biwire.html

BI-WIRE, NOT ONLY AN ADVANTAGE

A popular method to connect an amplifier to a loudspeaker is to use something called bi-wiring. The technical idea behind this special way to connect has not reached the public in other words than "better definition in the mid range", "the bass will be faster" and "the treble more in focus" or similar nonsense. The problems and faults that arise have not been mentioned, of course.



THE ADVANTAGES FIRST

The idea with biwiring is to connect the amplifier to the filter halves separately to prevent intermodulation, generated by one driver, to influence the other driver.

If you look at the damping factor that reduces the unwanted signals however you will find that they differ very little with or without cables (with 5 or 0 metre long cables for example). When using a tube amplifier, the cables in practice have no influence at all to damp the signals from one side of the filter to the other, because the damping factor is too low already in the power amp. The signal will slip through anyway to the other driver, despite the cables.

Apart from that, a well-designed crossover filter will provide a certain protection against "leaking" intermodulation since each half of the filter (in a two-way system) will damp each half of the frequency range.

THE DISADVANTAGE WITH BI-WIRE

One thing that happens when you biwire your loudspeakers is that the input of the high- and the low-pass filters are fed with different input signals. The difference is a result of the high frequencies and the low frequencies being forced to travel different paths, perhaps through different types of cables, but under all circumstances through cables who have seen different loads (a tweeter with a high pass filter has a completely different impedance response compared to a woofer with a low pass filter!).

What happens is that the drivers will work less good together than when their filter halves were fed with equal signals. The result is a generation of more static and stochastic phase error sounds at different directions from the loudspeaker. The stochastic phase error sounds appear because there may be different types of unlinearities in the low- and high-frequency paths.

What does this sound like? Well, usually, just as you may expect from physics, it appears as a change in the reproduction of space and sound stage. Often, the first impression is that the "biwired" sound presents extended "dimensions", more "air", and is more "living". The impression after a week or month, however, is that all recordings sound very much alike, and the "airiness" appears on all records. It does not even sound like air anymore, instead more like a slime that pollutes every record you play. No wonder, since it is not a real, recorded quality but a "speaker characteristic" added to all reproduced material. "Sameness" is another word for it.

[LCSeminole]

Dec 2, 2012 7:39:01 GMT -5 mkohman said:

Dec 1, 2012 13:04:24 GMT -5 @rlw said:

Bi-wiring = waste of good cables and money. But hey, if it makes you *feel* good, go for it. But you'd be much better off listening to what Chuckster advised...

-RW-

Thanks for your negativity however it is not a waste of time, money or cables as I already have extra cable length and the time so all I needed was the stackable banana plugs which I used in the pictures but they seem a little too cheap .. so I purchased these instead yesterday and will be using these instead when they arrive on tuesday

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Zero3-Series-Banana-Plugs-x10-Gold-Plated-4mm-Speaker-Cable-Connectors-/160874122442?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:GB:3160

I will be inserting both cables through the side of the plugs this time.. so I will be using 1 plug with two + and another plug with two - cables inserted in the side.. what do you guys think!

Also there is a thread which explains that bi-wire and bi-amping is worth the time and effort.. Anyone who is interested can read the link below if you like

www.soundstage.com/synergize/synergize031998.htm

Thanks for your time

Thanks for the link on "SoundStage", interesting article to say the least as it brings in to question what I actually learned about Physics in college, though a discussion on this is off topic and appropriate for another thread, thus I digress.

What you describe will work just fine and if you have the excess wire and want to give it a try, then go for it, as experimenting in the home theater world is part of the fun of this hobby. Most of the members that have replied are most likely only giving you their opinions on bi-wiring, and the conclusions, in general, that they have come to over their time in home theater. If you notice a difference for the better then you've allowed your ears to decide and in the end, what sounds better to YOU is what counts. I've actually tried bi-wiring and I couldn't discern a difference from just the regular single cable method. I would be remiss, if I didn't note that according to the laws of Physics, the two methods are electrically equivalent. Anyhow, enjoy the final outcome no matter what you end up doing.

[Deleted]

"One thing that happens when you biwire your loudspeakers is that the input of the high- and the low-pass filters are fed with different input signals."

And how, exactly, is that accomplished? You are simply running two pairs of wires from a *single* amp output into the two pairs of binding posts on your speakers. BOTH pairs of binding posts receive the same signal. How is this *any* different from running a single pair of wires from your amp's output into one of the speaker's sets of binding posts which are then connected together via, usually, a metal strap or a small length of speaker wire?

Bi-wiring makes *no* electrical difference except for the effective additional gauge of the combined speaker cables. And if you're running 14 ga. or larger for less than 50 ft., there is virtually no difference in the resistance vs. a single cable. So, where's the beef?

-RW-

[Deleted]

> I wanted stackable as I will be using it on the XPA-5 end for biwire purposes not the speaker end..

After I first heard about bi-wiring speakers I was cynical; but googled it and decided it was worth a try. I had some commerical speaker wire, two twisted pairs in a shield, 12 guage, so made up a couple of cables.

After rewiring the left speaker, I listened/compared the left and right speakers. I could hear no difference between the bi-wired and mono-wired speaker. I'm a trained classical musician, so should be a competent listener. So then I had a friend blind test; he could hear no difference.

Since I'd already made the cables, I finished bi-wiring it; but believe it a waste of time. At least it will impress the connoisseurs. Save your money for something useful, like some good CD's.

Sincerely
/b

[Deleted]

It's not as though the wires are sitting there saying "Hmmmmm, I'm hooked up to the tweeter's posts, I'll just handle the high frequencies." And similarly for the wires going to the woofer's posts. BOTH sets of posts are receiving the SAME signal because they are hooked up to the *single* output from the amp. How is the speaker wire to divide this signal into its low and high frequency components? Answer: It cannot. It's up to the speaker's crossover to divide that signal and provide it to the appropriate drivers.

Bi-amping is completely different, much more expensive, and usually reserved for tweakos who have trouble getting dates. Don't be that guy...

-RW-

[mkohman]

Dec 2, 2012 13:26:23 GMT -5 @rlw said:

It's not as though the wires are sitting there saying "Hmmmmm, I'm hooked up to the tweeter's posts, I'll just handle the high frequencies." And similarly for the wires going to the woofer's posts. BOTH sets of posts are receiving the SAME signal because they are hooked up to the *single* output from the amp. How is the speaker wire to divide this signal into its low and high frequency components? Answer: It cannot. It's up to the speaker's crossover to divide that signal and provide it to the appropriate drivers.

Bi-amping is completely different, much more expensive, and usually reserved for tweakos who have trouble getting dates. Don't be that guy...

-RW-

LOL .. I am married with 2 Children.. I am not the guy who has trouble getting dates as don't need to lol thanks for your input anyway.. The extra cables I have All I needed was good quality stackable banana plugs which didn't cost me anymore than £12.00 so I don't think eperimenting will hurt.. Also it will increase the speaker cables gauge.. win win for me I guess. Now if I never had the extra cable than I would try to understand the guys who say its a waste of money.....!

[broncsrule21]

Try what you like. The bi-wire and bi-amping are two of the most debated subjects in audio. You will get passionate responses from both sides.

[AudioHTIT]

While I am willing to accept that bi-wiring may not have an advantage, I am skeptical that it has a disadvantage.

"One thing that happens when you biwire your loudspeakers is that the input of the high- and the low-pass filters are fed with different input signals."

Different signals? Really?