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Post by mkohman on Nov 29, 2012 8:23:18 GMT -5
Hey Guys, I am connecting my Onkyo 809 Receiver to my XPA-5 via RCA cables and I have decided to bi-wire my front left centre and right speakers which are B&W 683's and the CMC2 Centre.. Before bi-wire I have been using my QED EVO XT cables bare wire into the speakers terminals and QED Airloc banana plug on the XPA-5 end.. I have extra QED XT EVO cable which I am using to bi-wire.. So what I did was used the QED Airlock ended part of the cables at the speaker end as I would need to insert 2 sets of cables into each binding post in the XPA-5 end.. I was thinking of going bare wire but ended up buying these banana plugs off ebay which are stackable www.ebay.co.uk/itm/20QTY-GOLD-PLATED-SPEAKER-WIRE-CABLE-BANANA-4MM-PLUG-BLACK-RED-CONNECTOR-UK-/290646017344?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Audio_Cable_Terminations&hash=item43abda4540Now my question is do I go this root or shall I just bare-wire the XPA-5 end? What I don't want to do is degrade the sound quality by introducing a further object "banana plug" in the chain of connection.. Is it better to keep the amp end bare wire or shall I use the banana plugs.. or are these banana plugs just too cheap and crap? I mean I have spent alot on the cables and my setup and worried that cheap banana plugs may not do it any justice.. what are your thouhghts on this please.. Many thanks  |
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Post by gearhead2003 on Nov 29, 2012 8:35:39 GMT -5
Mainly it comes down to a few factors as to why people us bananas. One is convenience, two preventing oxidation which can only be with further steps in the termination process and finally they just darn look cool. Hope this helps...
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Post by gearhead2003 on Nov 29, 2012 8:42:04 GMT -5
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Post by mkohman on Nov 29, 2012 9:13:17 GMT -5
thanks for the response.. but I wanted to know will it degrade the sound quality in anyway? Is it better to bare wire connect to the XPA-5 what will be the benefits if bare wired? Many thanks..
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Post by gearhead2003 on Nov 29, 2012 9:36:29 GMT -5
Oops that's my generic response...Sorry I typed my response in on my Iphone as I was motivating to get out of bed.
There are two answers to this question. One is yes it will technically degrade the signal when making the transfer from the receiver to the speaker wire, this is actually true in almost any audio situation. This is due to the fact that any time you add a break or extra connection you add resistance so the less connections you have to make the better. However generally this is not detectable to the human ear. The only way to measure the difference would be to use specific testing equipment. Therefore adding decent quality banana's should be fine, basically that means just don't use a hanger to make the connection. When addressing the bare wire question, I will refer to my answer before about oxidation. Eventually after time passes the copper will naturally oxidize and can possibly cause signal transfer distortion/resistance. Again whether there is a discernible difference in sound quality is debatable. You can also consider using silver plated copper wire which is designed to prevent the metal from degrading.
My recommendation spend a few extra bucks on some banana plugs to maintain the uniformity of the speaker wire and for easy connection adjustments etc. Hope this helps
Fraser
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Post by Vermont99 on Nov 29, 2012 9:47:08 GMT -5
I have locking Banana's but switched to spade connectors could never seem to get the Banana plugs tight enough. I put a dab if anti corrosion grease on the end of the wire when putting then together. Another benefit they do not stick out as far. My banana connectors are now in a draw. www.speakerrepair.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=spade |
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Post by monkumonku on Nov 29, 2012 9:48:01 GMT -5
My two cents is you are not going to hear any difference whatsoever between using bare wire versus banana plugs. Banana plugs just make it more convenient if you frequently have to connect and disconnect your speakers. The main consideration is to get plugs that fit tightly (I would advise locking plugs) and are sturdily made. You don't want them getting loose and also don't want them to get corroded or oxidized so you have to make sure they are of good quality.
The ones you linked to on E-Bay look sort of cheap (no offense, that's just my opinion). But sound-wise they will sound the same as using bare wire or any other plug.
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Post by Boomzilla on Nov 29, 2012 10:02:01 GMT -5
My two cents is you are not going to hear any difference whatsoever between using bare wire versus banana plugs... +1 I've never heard any difference. The reason I prefer bananas is because once soldered on (I solder EVERYTHING), there is no further potential for corrosion or oxidation of the copper wire AND there are no stray whiskers of the stranded wire looking for things to short out on. |
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Post by roadrunner on Nov 29, 2012 13:10:19 GMT -5
You will find absolutely no difference in the sound quality between using a well made banana plug and bare wire. The banana plugs are just far more convenient. I like the GLS banana plugs that several others have already mentioned. If you are comfortable using a soldering iron and you don't often mess with the speaker cables I would suggest you use some silver solder to "tin" the bare copper on both ends of the cable. This way, you get the best best connection and don't need to spend any money of banana plugs. Soldering, tinning, the bare copper ensures there is no oxidation. Bottom line, you will not be able hear any difference in SQ when using well made connectors or bare wire that has the exposed copper ends tinned. I use to tin all my speaker cables, but have gotten lazy in my old age and have used GLS banana plugs exclusively for the past five years. Don't fret about it, one way or the other.  |
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Post by mkohman on Nov 29, 2012 17:33:57 GMT -5
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Post by roadrunner on Nov 29, 2012 18:39:09 GMT -5
I am curious why you want "stackable" banana plugs for your 683s and CM2. These speakers come with two sets of binding posts that are strapped. Using the stackable banana plugs, after removing the straps between the sets of binding posts, gains you nothing. You end up with exactly the same connections between the amp channels and the speakers' inputs. Using the the stackable plugs with another speaker cable simply replaces the straps and increases your cost while making your connections more complex and more susceptible to problems. Why not just leave in straps in place and use a better quality banana plug, like the GLS locking banana plug. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2012 18:51:16 GMT -5
My advice can be unpopular with the tweaking/obsessive crowd. Concentrate all your efforts in your system that make a clear, proven and repeatable audible improvement. That means for me your room and all its characteristics, the sound source, speakers and how they are placed in your room including the speaker setup procedures whether auto or manual and having enough power (always erring on the side of lots of extra power when needed). This would obviously include component features you desire.
Forget about sound being affected by speaker wire or terminals, or audio/video connectors as long as they are of quality construction and proper gauge, etc. Forget about bi-wiring (bi-amping can have some value). These accessories and hookup methods can be fun but add no sound difference. They also can chip away at your available funds for speakers and amp, etc. I have seen many folks spend countless hours anguishing about whether to spend several hundred dollars more to get plenty of power, the better speaker model, an excellent sub woofer and then after they decide that the cheaper items will be OK for their system, they go and spend lots of money on frivolously expensive accessories.
Buy the cheapest speaker wire you can find that is heavy enough gauge (hardware store lamp wire is fine with opaque covering), connectors such as banana plugs that are convenient if you prefer them, audio/video connectors that are well-built to last, proper type, etc. but not the audiophile hyped brands. I have Monster bananas only because I got them at 50% discount. My connectors are all Monoprice or Emo on sale and look great. Blue Jeans are nice.
Other than the room, concentrate on the speakers (all voice/timbre matched), amp (enough power ... don't worry they sound almost identical as long as they are beefy into 4 ohms like Emo amps) and the best sound sources. Don't forget a high quality sub (the most underemphasized part of a super system for both stereo and multi-channel music or movies IMO).
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Post by thepcguy on Nov 29, 2012 18:59:20 GMT -5
Since you have a brand named wire already, I would suggest BARE WIRE for your peace of mind.
But either way (bare wire, spade, banana), it will sound the same.
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Post by ggrant on Nov 30, 2012 10:50:55 GMT -5
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Post by mkohman on Nov 30, 2012 11:43:27 GMT -5
Hey Dude, I wanted stackable as I will be using it on the XPA-5 end for biwire purposes not the speaker end.. - The XPA-5 only has a + and - output for each channel and my speakers have 2 x binding posts.. so I needed to take 2 x sets of QED XT EVO cables from the XPA-5 outputs hence why I need the banana plugs to be stackable.. Do you get what I am saying..  Thanks.. your reccomendations are valued.. ! I am curious why you want "stackable" banana plugs for your 683s and CM2. These speakers come with two sets of binding posts that are strapped. Using the stackable banana plugs, after removing the straps between the sets of binding posts, gains you nothing. You end up with exactly the same connections between the amp channels and the speakers' inputs. Using the the stackable plugs with another speaker cable simply replaces the straps and increases your cost while making your connections more complex and more susceptible to problems. Why not just leave in straps in place and use a better quality banana plug, like the GLS locking banana plug. |
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Post by shokdu on Nov 30, 2012 12:38:15 GMT -5
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Post by roadrunner on Nov 30, 2012 17:04:14 GMT -5
Hey Dude, I wanted stackable as I will be using it on the XPA-5 end for biwire purposes not the speaker end.. - The XPA-5 only has a + and - output for each channel and my speakers have 2 x binding posts.. so I needed to take 2 x sets of QED XT EVO cables from the XPA-5 outputs hence why I need the banana plugs to be stackable.. Do you get what I am saying.. Thanks.. your reccomendations are valued.. ! I am curious why you want "stackable" banana plugs for your 683s and CM2. These speakers come with two sets of binding posts that are strapped. Using the stackable banana plugs, after removing the straps between the sets of binding posts, gains you nothing. You end up with exactly the same connections between the amp channels and the speakers' inputs. Using the the stackable plugs with another speaker cable simply replaces the straps and increases your cost while making your connections more complex and more susceptible to problems. Why not just leave in straps in place and use a better quality banana plug, like the GLS locking banana plug. It really makes no difference whether you use the stackable plugs at the speaker or on the amp, the results are exactly the same. Just trace your signal path and you will see it is the same for both options. You will get the same results with either wiring option. If it makes you feel good, go ahead and do it, but the bottom line is it will not improve the performance in any way. Running a single set of ICs to the speaker, while leaving the "straps" connecting the two sets of inputs in place, will give you exactly the same performance. You gain nothing by going to this effort and you end up spending more money without gaining any benefit As Chuckienut posted, there are many things you can do that will improve the sound of your system. You would be much better off spending your time and money on one or more of these things. Do whatever will give you the most enjoyment. Have fun. |
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Post by mkohman on Dec 1, 2012 6:21:52 GMT -5
I'm sorry but you have lost me... Why would I use stackable banana plugs at the speaker end? The B&W 683 and the CMC2 both have dual binding posts.. I am using the stackable banana plugs at the XPA-5 end as I am running 2 x seperate wires from the amp into each seperate binding post at the back of my speakers.. hence bi-wire..
I didn't understand what it is you were saying.. I spoke with the Tech Support at B&W and the guy also told me if I bi-wire my fronts it will make an improvement as easy driver is fed seperately and it helps the resistance of the speaker and the cross over is better..
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Post by ggrant on Dec 1, 2012 6:35:19 GMT -5
I'm sorry but you have lost me... Why would I use stackable banana plugs at the speaker end? The B&W 683 and the CMC2 both have dual binding posts.. I am using the stackable banana plugs at the XPA-5 end as I am running 2 x seperate wires from the amp into each seperate binding post at the back of my speakers.. hence bi-wire.. I didn't understand what it is you were saying.. I spoke with the Tech Support at B&W and the guy also told me if I bi-wire my fronts it will make an improvement as easy driver is fed seperately and it helps the resistance of the speaker and the cross over is better.. Just curious - do you notice a difference in sound when bi-wiring? |
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Post by mkohman on Dec 1, 2012 10:21:23 GMT -5
To be honest with you the sound is more open to my ears.. It sounds slightly clearer and dynamic .. Thats how I feel about it .. Please see pictures below to make it easier what I mean when I say stacable banana plugs from the XPA-5 for bi wire also do you guys think I should maybe change the banana plugs for the bi-wire inputs for there one instead of the cheap plastic ones.. even though the inside structure is gold plated? www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GOLD-BANANA-PLUGS-4mm-Speakers-Stackable-Pack-of-8-/180571068381?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Audio_Cable_Terminations&hash=item2a0adfd7dd&_uhb=1speaker end  XPA-5 end  I'm sorry but you have lost me... Why would I use stackable banana plugs at the speaker end? The B&W 683 and the CMC2 both have dual binding posts.. I am using the stackable banana plugs at the XPA-5 end as I am running 2 x seperate wires from the amp into each seperate binding post at the back of my speakers.. hence bi-wire.. I didn't understand what it is you were saying.. I spoke with the Tech Support at B&W and the guy also told me if I bi-wire my fronts it will make an improvement as easy driver is fed seperately and it helps the resistance of the speaker and the cross over is better.. Just curious - do you notice a difference in sound when bi-wiring? |
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