New guy could use some help with Sub set up

[HJ957]

Hi all, new guy here.

I dabble in stereo gear and have pieced together a system over the past 30 odd years. I tend to acquire some bit of gear, put it together to my level of satisfaction and not mess with it again for the next five or ten years. So I am in no way someone with anything more than Newbie knowledge.

This past summer I got wind of the ERC-2 and decided to try one after playing CDs in a DVD player since 2001 or so. This has subsequently led me down the road where I find myself the new owner of an XPA 5 and with a tracking number for an UMC-200. This is darn exciting let me tell you.

But here's the issue. My speaker system is all NHT and using a Sub One i, which has an external control box. The configuration is Pre Out from the receiver (HK AVR 520) to the controller, and then Left and Right out from the Controller to the Main In ports on the HK. All Sub functions are then done on the Controller box.

This works fine but is a slight pain to use and I'd love to get rid of it. Therefore, and not ever having owned or used a Pre/Pro, is it feasible and hopefully a good idea to let the UMC-200 do all the Subwoofer management, or do is it best to continue to use the NHT Controller?

Thanks, and these forums has been really helpful.

Harv

[paradigmE]

Dec 14, 2012 21:29:25 GMT -5 HJ957 said:

This has subsequently led me down the road where I find myself the new owner of an XPA 5 and with a tracking number for an UMC-200. This is darn exciting let me tell you.

I can relate. First Emotiva product for me XPA-200 arrived two weeks or so, now have tracking order for my USP-1. And I concur - I'm enjoying my audio improvements immensley as well.

For your sub - Without knowing anything about that controller, I'm still positive you will want to try bypassing that NHT controller box, at the minimum just as a test to use the umc-200 for bass management instead. I'm sure someone with with more expierence will add more. Does the NHT controller have a model number?

[mickeyharlow]

First of all, Welcome. Secondly, I will defer to the experts.

[HJ957]

Thanks guys, happy to be here.

The Controller comes with the Sub One i, so there isn't a model number other than Sub One i. I'm attaching a couple photos of it.

Back of Controller
i.imgur.com/QDctQ.jpg

Front view
i.imgur.com/q1NRM.jpg

[jackfish]

A UMC-200 has a robust bass management system. But then wouldn't you need amplification as the HK AVR520 would be out of the mix?

[HJ957]

The Sub One i has a built in Sunfire at 200 or 250 watts, I forget which it is. I've tried hooking it direct to the UMC200 via the Sub Out and also from the UMC200 to the control box and then from the box to the sub, without the left and right connections and so far the sub turns on but I'm getting little or no sound out of it.

However if I also run the Main Outs from the UMC to the controller, and then from the controller to the amp, it all works fine. I was hoping to bypass that method but so far it's all I can figure out.

[ansat]

Dec 18, 2012 11:00:56 GMT -5 HJ957 said:

The Sub One i has a built in Sunfire at 200 or 250 watts, I forget which it is. I've tried hooking it direct to the UMC200 via the Sub Out and also from the UMC200 to the control box and then from the box to the sub, without the left and right connections and so far the sub turns on but I'm getting little or no sound out of it.

However if I also run the Main Outs from the UMC to the controller, and then from the controller to the amp, it all works fine. I was hoping to bypass that method but so far it's all I can figure out.

Try going from the umc to the controller to the sub utilizing the LFE (the method that gave you the low output.

Now its time to play with the settings. Set the xover for your mains to 80 and set the sub to 80.

Play some tunes. (make sure your in stereo mode and not direct) Does this improve the sound?

Currently what you are describing sounds like you have the xover to low for your mains and you are not getting the impact that you want cause nothing is being sent to the sub.

[DYohn]

I can't tell what your issue is, probably because that image is soo huge it forces your first post to be three screens wide and it's too difficult for me to read it. Wow.

[Deleted]

See here for photos and info on NHT Sub One
www.amazon.com/NHT-SubOne-Subwoofer-Single-Speaker/dp/B00001ZWST/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top



Google search for: "NHT Sub One pdf manual" Open pdf and see manual and see connection method #2 on page 9.



The NHT sub is simply a powered sub that has moved the bass control and connections to a separate box instead of on the back of the sub like most other subs do. Since you have the UMC-200 on the way you will no longer need the HK 520.

The NHT Sub One still needs to be hooked up from the control box to the actual subwoofer using the special 8-pin mini DIN cable. This is from the #8 jack subwoofer output (see note below) on the controller to the #3 subwoofer input jack on the back of the sub ( as shown on page 3 in the manual. From here on pretend that the controller box is an integral part of the sub just like its controls were on the rear of the sub. Note: I now realize your Sub One i might have slight differences and it looks like the subwoofer out 8-pin jack on your box might be under the LFE In jack.

You will now with the UMC-200 ignore all other connections on the controller box to and from the UMC-200 (formerly HK 520) except for the single RCA sub connector that will go from the sub unbalanced output on the UMC-200 to the line level in (either L or R, #13 ..... see note above and it looks like there is only one RCA input jack labeled LFE, use the LFE jack) on the controller box. Set the flat/video control switch to "flat". The LFE Gain and #6 Volume on the front of the box and the #9 Gain switch on the rear are all for setting the initial gain/volume of the sub versus the other speakers. Start with these at medium level at first and then adjust as needed. Set the #10 phase as instructed in the UMC-2 manual. Ignore the high pass switch as this is controlled by the UMC-200. Set the #11 low pass dial to its max/full clockwise setting (approx 180) as this is now effectively bypassed on the control box and also handled by the UMC-200. You don't mention the exact model speakers you have for your LCR and surrounds, this would be nice to know. Meantime be sure to make sure the UMC-200 sets all 5 speakers as "small" and not "large" or "full range" (regardless of the actual size of the speakers). This means that the UMC-200 will combine the LFE low effects signal from the movie track and the lower bass below the selected low pass frequency and re-direct this combined bass to the sub. Start by choosing about 80Hz as the low and high pass frequency until we find out what NHT model speakers you have.

(Sorry, I didn't look at your signature.)

You will ignore the control box #13, 14 and 15 satellite and amp connections shown in the owner's manual version I refer to.

You end up having the UMC-200 pre-pro connected to the XPA-5 amp and on to the main 5 speakers. The UMC-200 will also be connected to the Sub Control box which is connected to the sub amp and the sub speaker (driver).



Extra Info:

Page #12 in the UMC-200 manual:

10. 7.1 Channel Main Outputs (unbalanced) Connect these outputs to the inputs on the amplifier that runs your main speakers, and the unbalanced input of your powered subwoofer (or subwoofer amplifier).


Notes from UMC-200 manual (about setting subwoofers):

Since EmoQ is controlling the bass management for your subwoofer, it is usually optimum to set your sub itself to “flat”.

If your subwoofer has a phase setting, you should set it to “0 degrees” or “normal” (and not “inverted).

If your sub has a built-in crossover that cannot be disabled, then set it to the highest allowed crossover point (as I mention above).

If your sub has a level control (you have two or three of these), setting it to a center position, or to “0 dB” is a good place to start.


PS: Harv, if you click on modify and remove the photos from your post reply #3, that should bring this thread back to regular width and much easier for folks to read. Mention in reply #3 to see photos below in reply #8 or copy mine and re-post them in #3.

[HJ957]

Thanks all, your comments and a call to NHT confirms the hookup could be either the full NHT type (which is the one I used to get the sub to work, but which the UMC200 would not "see"), the other hookup is the same as Chuckienut describes, which I had previously tried but obviously did something wrong because now it works reasonably well and EmoQ now sees the sub. Possibly I was in Direct mode.

My connection details are, UMC200 SW out to the NHT Controller, from the Controller LFE out to the sub, low pass at max (180), gain +10, phase 180.

Interestingly the UMC200 requires a great deal more power on the LFE gain and the overall volume compared to the HK 520. If you visualize a rotary dial numbered 1-10, the typical setting I used on the HK would be LFE - 1, Main Volume - 4. Just in my brief testing the UMC200 is needing a LFE of 3 to 4 and a main volume of 7. It's a substantial difference. Is this something to simply ignore?

Currently I'm using the mains set as Large with the sub enabled as well as enhanced bass enabled. It's a fuller sound.

Do you all do a lot of custom EQ? I'd guess that to be the case. EmoQ believes the sub to be a lot further away than it actually is, I'm unsure how important that is. Also interestingly, EmoQ reported all my speakers as Phase Reversed, which I know they were not.