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Post by arthurz on Dec 17, 2012 20:28:09 GMT -5
I got to spend a few hours this morning testing my new XSP-1/XPR-5 with B&W 803's against Mac C-50/MC-601. The source was a McIntosh SACD player. Some people I talked to were certain this wasn't going to be even close... The test wasn't even singly blind, so the results should be taken with a grain of salt, but nevertheless: it was AMAZINGLY CLOSE. The Mac sounded ever so slightly more clear. The nature of the difference was similar to that between the XDA-2 and a MacBook Pro's built-in DAC, but the degree was significantly smaller (there's a very clear difference between the DACs). Next, I decided to compare just the amps with the Mac C-50 as the pre-amp. This time, there was NO difference. The MC-601 power meters showed we didn't go past maybe 150 W/ch. The sound was truly identical. We later reproduced the same results with B&W 802's (which sounded identical to the 803's to me). I'm posting because I thought people would find this amusing, but I'm also wondering if anyone else was able to perform a similar test and what the results were. I'd be especially interested to hear how the PeachTree Grand Pre compares to the XDA-2 and XSP-1 combo. Again, the difference was so insignificant I will probably keep this combo. It's really amazing that $2,950 worth of Emotiva pretty much equaled $17,000 of McIntosh. I probably just wasted a chunk of cash on the XPR-1's (as an addition to the XPR-5), but at that price, who wouldn't?  |
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Pauly
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Posts: 5,237
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Post by Pauly on Dec 17, 2012 21:05:09 GMT -5
Awesome! Can't say that I'm surprised though.
Thanks for posting, and welcome to the Lounge.
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Post by garbulky on Dec 17, 2012 21:23:09 GMT -5
I got to spend a few hours this morning testing my new XSP-1/XPR-5 with B&W 803's against Mac C-50/MC-601. The source was a McIntosh SACD player. Some people I talked to were certain this wasn't going to be even close... The test wasn't even singly blind, so the results should be taken with a grain of salt, but nevertheless: it was AMAZINGLY CLOSE. The Mac sounded ever so slightly more clear. The nature of the difference was similar to that between the XDA-2 and a MacBook Pro's built-in DAC, but the degree was significantly smaller (there's a very clear difference between the DACs). Next, I decided to compare just the amps with the Mac C-50 as the pre-amp. This time, there was NO difference. The MC-601 power meters showed we didn't go past maybe 150 W/ch. The sound was truly identical. We later reproduced the same results with B&W 802's (which sounded identical to the 803's to me). I'm posting because I thought people would find this amusing, but I'm also wondering if anyone else was able to perform a similar test and what the results were. I'd be especially interested to hear how the PeachTree Grand Pre compares to the XDA-2 and XSP-1 combo. Again, the difference was so insignificant I will probably keep this combo. It's really amazing that $2,950 worth of Emotiva pretty much equaled $17,000 of McIntosh. I probably just wasted a chunk of cash on the XPR-1's (as an addition to the XPR-5), but at that price, who wouldn't? Beautiful gear. Amazing that the emotiva could hang with gear of such high price levels. Very nice. I had a hard time understanding your comparisions. Is this what you are indicating? 1. The McIntosh SACD DAC and the XDA-2 were very close but there is a clear difference with the Mcintosh being better. 2. The XPR-5 and the MAC amp were identical. 3. What about the XSP vs the MAC pre-amp? |
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Post by arthurz on Dec 17, 2012 21:32:24 GMT -5
Hi Garbulky,
The XDA-2 was not a part of the comparison. The Mac SACD source was used throughout the test.
The summary of the results is:
1. Amps: XPR-5 and MC-601 sounded identical.
2. Pre-amps: XSP-1 was perceived as _slightly_ worse than the C-50 (tested using the XPR-5).
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Post by garbulky on Dec 17, 2012 21:45:40 GMT -5
Wow. Well that's very impressive when you consider the price points.
How would you compare the XDA-2 as a DAC? Just in general even? I haven't had a chance to hear very high end DACS.
BTW, thank you very much for posting. This help the lounge figure out a general idea of how emotiva compares. Most of us don't have that neat gear. It also really helps emotiva who I believe are struggling to gain a name recognition due to their prices.
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Post by arthurz on Dec 17, 2012 22:38:45 GMT -5
I also haven't had a chance to do many DAC comparisons. So far I have two data points.
1. I tested the XDA-2 vs. MacBook Pro and iPhone built-in DACs. This resulted in a complete destruction of Apple. I felt like my ears were full of wax. The XDA-2 sound, in comparison, was like sharp nails piercing smooth velvet with violence and precision.
2. I also tested the XDA-2 vs. Marantz AV7701. The source in both cases was an Apple TV. Marantz was hooked up via HDMI and the XDA-2 via Toslink. Both sounded about the same (tested using B&W 803 as well as Sennheiser HD800 headphones).
I should be getting a PeachTree Nova Pre in a few weeks, so I'll have that comparison then.
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Post by danr on Dec 18, 2012 0:14:30 GMT -5
I've said it before on this forum and I'll say it again. I'll put my XPR-5 against anything. It's that good. It was a big step up from my old UPA-1s.
I don't know how Big Dan and Lonnie did it. I just know they did. When I read these "all amps sound the same" posts...I just smile and don't get into the pointless debate. I've run receivers, and three different sets of separate amps over the years. There are differences...
Whether its the amp itself, how the amp interacts with the speakers, or some other type of system synergy...I don't know. I don't care either. Audiophile debates are so pointless and never ending.
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Erwin.BE
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It's the room, stupid!
Posts: 2,269
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Post by Erwin.BE on Dec 18, 2012 14:31:39 GMT -5
When I read these "all amps sound the same" posts...I just smile and don't get into the pointless debate. Amps really sound pretty much the same! As long as it's the XPA-1's vs the XPR-5 ;D |
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Erwin.BE
Emo VIPs
It's the room, stupid!
Posts: 2,269
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Post by Erwin.BE on Dec 18, 2012 14:38:22 GMT -5
I got to spend a few hours this morning testing my new XSP-1/XPR-5 with B&W 803's against Mac C-50/MC-601. The source was a McIntosh SACD player. Some people I talked to were certain this wasn't going to be even close... The test wasn't even singly blind, so the results should be taken with a grain of salt, but nevertheless: it was AMAZINGLY CLOSE. The Mac sounded ever so slightly more clear. The nature of the difference was similar to that between the XDA-2 and a MacBook Pro's built-in DAC, but the degree was significantly smaller (there's a very clear difference between the DACs). Next, I decided to compare just the amps with the Mac C-50 as the pre-amp. This time, there was NO difference. Nice machines in a nice room! Looking sweet. And no, we are not surprised. The soundcard inside a computer is always rubbish, unless it's upgraded. Even if it's a Mac. XPR-2 would be my choice with the 802D. But I suppose even the XPR-1 are bargains compared to the speakers' prices. Also another confirmation that preamplification is often underestimated. Small distortions at that level are merely multiplied by the amps. |
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Post by audiohead on Dec 18, 2012 17:00:26 GMT -5
artthurz...awesome gear!I thank you for posting this.I am sure some will say this or that about your test.Again thanks I will be watching out for your posting on gear for sure.
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Post by garbulky on Apr 18, 2013 7:35:43 GMT -5
Once again. Just a gorgeous setup. Did you ever get the nova?
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guitarforlife
Sensei
Just another busy day in Northern Wisconsin.
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Post by guitarforlife on Apr 18, 2013 9:16:20 GMT -5
Nice review, Thanks It sure gives food for thought.
Just recently I changed power amps and I have to say you CAN tell the difference in them.
I can't say one is better then another but there are in fact a difference.
I guess it falls on ones own ears to which they prefer.
Great job thanks for the good info.
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Post by arthurz on Apr 18, 2013 10:14:39 GMT -5
Once again. Just a gorgeous setup. Did you ever get the nova? No, I had to pull the plug on the NovaPre since for a while I was expecting the amplifier would be far away from it and so I'd need balanced outs. Of course I had since reconfigured everything, but by then I had a few more XDA-2's  |
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Post by garbulky on Apr 18, 2013 10:39:42 GMT -5
Well congratulations! Having no standalone pre-amp, that is certainly on my wish list. Since I got your attention.... how do you find the hd800's compare to the ultrasone and the other?
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Post by arthurz on Apr 18, 2013 15:16:39 GMT -5
I'm in love with the HD800's. Sonic perfection  . They are so comfortable that I sometimes almost forget I have them on. The open back makes everything seem large and unconstrained. I'm looking forward to the piece-of-schiit Asgard 2, hoping it'll be an improvement over the Bellari HA-540 for driving the headphones. The Ultrasones are very good. They're less comfortable on the ears, since the pads are much smaller than the HD800's, but the bass is great and the isolation is perfect (my wife doesn't hear anything even if I'm blasting music). Also, the smaller size makes it easier to have them on while laying in bed. The soft leather on the pads (earcups and the headband) is insanely awesome (I don't want to know what part of the sheep they come from...). The Audio-Technicas are sonically not too far from the Ultrasones, but they're also slightly less comfortable and a little awkward to handle due to the DJ-style earcups. However, for the money, they are amazing. If I need to add any more headphones, I'll get more Audio-Technicas. |
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Post by sidvicious on Apr 18, 2013 15:55:20 GMT -5
Great job Arthurz, this is what I'm talking about and what others have said, it's your ears and when you get to a certain price point there are more similarities than there are differences in equipment. What happens is some will spend the money and get offended because they don't believe you can spend less and get more and they will argue with you until they hear the Emotiva equipment.
I went to a Mcintosh Dealer when I bought my Marantz NA7004 and unscientifically listened and with similar music, not side by side but I had a hard time making a difference between that equipment and even my XPA-2 (The Macs was integrated and tubed amps).
I love Mcintosh's build quality, but it's hard to deny Emotiva and when people hear my set up they are taken back. It isn't how much you spend it's that you take your time and spend wisely. Good job Arthurz, as you got the same impression as I did, but only spoke to few about.
The sales man tried to say since Emotiva is an internet brand it wasn't proven and McIntosh and other's are and he knows very little about the company and that they probably won't be around that long. I offered to bring my amp in to do a comparison to what he had on hand and he refused. What one hears can't often be quantified, to the individual owner, it is what it is, good job!!!
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lowepat
Minor Hero
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Post by lowepat on Aug 10, 2013 9:07:01 GMT -5
Thanks for the review. Could I ask you one question. Since you use the McIntosh SACD, do you listen in SACD multi channel mode and if you do, how do you hook up with your 5.1 / 7.1 speakers. I want to purchase XSP-1 as well for my stereo listening but also want to incorporate the XSP-1 into my home system for multi channels listening as well as for home theatre. Currently, I have XPR-5 (for all my fronts including Centre)pair with XPA-5 (for my surrounds) with a Integra Processor. Thank you
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Post by arthurz on Aug 10, 2013 12:04:33 GMT -5
Hi Lowepat, I do occasionally listen to multi-channel SACD (I literally have only one right now – DSoTM), but not through the McIntosh (I did the test with that unit; I own an Oppo 103 I use for this purpose). For all my multi-channel preamp needs, I currently use a Marantz AV7701. Its L, R, and SW outs are hooked up to the XSP-1's HT bypass (so the XSP-1 really doesn't do anything SQ-wise).
If multi-channel audio was a huge thing for me, I'd go with 803 Diamonds all the way around instead of using the in-wall CWM 7.3's for the surrounds, and would use the Parasound P 7 7-channel analog-only preamp.
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Post by dally on Nov 26, 2014 15:57:08 GMT -5
I think this is the thread being discussed in " XPR-5 comparison"
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Post by assy74 on Jul 8, 2015 19:27:37 GMT -5
Interesting review Would be nice to put the XMC-1 in the picture as well for comparison to the C-50. I have XPR-5 myself and am very happy with performance, but didnt think it would stand up against the mac 601! But Emotiva is the real deal |
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. They are so comfortable that I sometimes almost forget I have them on. The open back makes everything seem large and unconstrained. I'm looking forward to the piece-of-schiit Asgard 2, hoping it'll be an improvement over the Bellari HA-540 for driving the headphones.
