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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2013 15:11:17 GMT -5
"Difference" and "value" are, as they say, in the mind and eye of the beholder. Whether you hear a difference or not, and whether you think it's worth the cost, will depend on your sources, your hearing, your tastes, your other equipment, and finally your opinion. Is a Rolls Royce "better" than my Nissan? Obviously *some* folks think so - even though it costs a lot more and gets worse gas mileage. I would tend to agree that the single biggest difference is usually achieved by upgrading speakers. In many cases, the next biggest difference to be had is to improve the room (acoustic treatments and such). After that, with MOST receivers as a starting point, MOST people hear a major improvement when they keep their receiver and pair it up with a separate power amp. MOST people hear a bigger improvement if they replace their receiver entirely with a separate pre/pro and power amp. Only you can say what YOU hear, and what it's worth to you. I can tell you that, personally, I currently use one of our UMC-200 pre/pros connected to a pair of our Stealth 8 powered monitors ... and, while the UMC-200 sounds very good in stereo (better than any receiver I've owned or heard), the XDA-2 sounds better yet with good quality stereo content. I have plenty of files where you can't hear the difference, or where it doesn't seem terribly important either way, and plenty of OTHER files where it's a pretty obvious improvement. (I don't have any where it sounds worse so, overall, it's an obvious improvement.) this is BS! I have 3 different AVR (2x pioneer elite and 1x yamaha htr-5950). I also own XPA5,UPA2.. I ordered the XDA2 and external amp to compare against the 5950 and there is no difference in sound quality. I lost bass management features that were already in my yamaha. I have some high quality FLAC files that I tried. Again no difference .. 0% improvement, putting money on the speakers would have made a bigger improvement for sure. I use that system for music only. I think you should send me a pair of Stealth 8, so I can really test the XDA2 properly! ;D |
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Post by audiohead on Jan 23, 2013 18:04:42 GMT -5
Get yourself the best Pre-Pro you can buy most AVR's today are good for HT and not that great for two channel music.With a really good PRE-PRO you can added too it like you want.Much better sound and most of all you can add a Pre-Amp for two channel and get the best of both worlds. this is BS! I have 3 different AVR (2x pioneer elite and 1x yamaha htr-5950). I also own XPA5,UPA2.. I ordered the XDA2 and external amp to compare against the 5950 and there is no difference in sound quality. I lost bass management features that were already in my yamaha. I have some high quality FLAC files that I tried. Again no difference .. 0% improvement, putting money on the speakers would have made a bigger improvement for sure. I use that system for music only. If you look at what I posted I said "Most" AVR'S, they have some really nasty sounding AVR's out there.  |
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Post by thepcguy on Jan 23, 2013 18:20:47 GMT -5
MOST people hear a major improvement when they keep their receiver and pair it up with a separate power amp. MOST people hear a bigger improvement if they replace their receiver entirely with a separate pre/pro and power amp. Can this be proven in a blind listening test at EMOFEST 2013? |
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Post by knucklehead on Jan 23, 2013 18:46:33 GMT -5
MOST people hear a major improvement when they keep their receiver and pair it up with a separate power amp. MOST people hear a bigger improvement if they replace their receiver entirely with a separate pre/pro and power amp. Can this be proven in a blind listening test at EMOFEST 2013? Good question. IMO the biggest change anyone will ever experience is when they change out the speakers. Electronics? Not so much. |
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Post by The Mad Norseman on Jan 23, 2013 18:59:11 GMT -5
AVRs are cheaper simply because so many more of them are sold than prepros. Its an economy of scale where one prepro might be made to 100 AVRs. knucklehead's had "Economics 1001", and is right on the mark with this observation! If the production numbers were similar you'd see a HUGE spike in the cost of AVRs - bet on it. But on the other hand, I do believe that separates are superior to AVRs. Certainly in terms of flexibility, changeability, future-proofing, and in general overall SQ performance, but (alas), more expensive too! |
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Post by audiohead on Jan 23, 2013 22:32:30 GMT -5
@mad Norseman...Lolo I just saw your"Land of 10,000 Taxes"...nice!
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Post by broncsrule21 on Jan 24, 2013 12:09:29 GMT -5
Great post, Keith, and spot-on with your recommendations! One thing I would add to the convo is that your source materials are right up there with speakers and room treatments for their efficacy in improving the sound quality of any system. And the beauty of having the very best sources is that they will improve *any* setup you may have, now and in the future. Plus, they're portable. You can load up a thumb drive with some killer albums and turn your friends on to what they are missing... -RW- The problem with "source material" is that some genres of music are lacking availability of good sources. There are not a lot of choices that I can see for my favorite genre, metal/hardrock. If I am missing something, please point me in the right direction.  |
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Post by The Mad Norseman on Jan 24, 2013 13:35:18 GMT -5
@mad Norseman...Lolo I just saw your "Land of 10,000 Taxes"...nice! Yeah, thanks! But unfortunately its about to get even worse here now (taxes-wise I mean...). Commenting on one of the above posters who doubt sonic improvements by going from an AVR to separates - I believe that truth to be 'self-evident'. Maybe a poll/thread should be started to get a general forum response? (But then again, its my opinion that surveys always do one of two things - they either show what we already knew, or they're wrong...). Certainly source material, speakers and room acoustics will always have a greater influence, but don't just discount out of hand the sonic benefits of going to separates! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2013 18:20:47 GMT -5
I recently got a Sherwood Newcastle R-972 to hold me over until I can use my 40% off card on the XMC. I consider it one of the best purchases I've ever made. It is built like a tank. The sound is 5 star and features XM Radio, Headphone jack, 100w amps, ect., It's easily worth more than 599.00 even if it didn't have Trinnov. I use it as a pre/pro with my power amp. I use it's internal amps to power two 4ohm Polk Lsifx speakers and it does this with ease. This unit is dead quiet even when I have it cranked, and it hardly gets warm. . Trinnov is pretty amazing how good it works.....sounds like I am surrounded by a bubble of about 30 speakers! I am strongly considering getting another one just to have as a backup. It's just that good. Anyway, my idea is that by going this route I can always delegate it to another room to power speakers in that room when I get the XMC. For 599.00 new with a 3 year warranty .......this is going to be hard to beat. I had not heard that much about Sherwood, so here are some links I found about this unit in case you haven't heard much about it either. Good Luck! REVIEWS: Kal Rubinson/Stereophile Review: www.stereophile.com/musicintheround/music_in_the_round_42/index.htmlMark Fleischmann/ Home Theater Magazine www.hometheater.com/receivers/sherwood_newcastle_r-972_av_receiver/Daniel Kuman/Sound and Vision Magazine www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/sherwood-newcastle-r-972-av-receiver |
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Post by knucklehead on Jan 25, 2013 19:28:18 GMT -5
I recently got a Sherwood Newcastle R-972 to hold me over until I can use my 40% off card on the XMC. I consider it one of the best purchases I've ever made. It is built like a tank. The sound is 5 star and features XM Radio, Headphone jack, 100w amps, ect., It's easily worth more than 599.00 even if it didn't have Trinnov. I use it as a pre/pro with my power amp. I use it's internal amps to power two 4ohm Polk Lsifx speakers and it does this with ease. This unit is dead quiet even when I have it cranked, and it hardly gets warm. . Trinnov is pretty amazing how good it works.....sounds like I am surrounded by a bubble of about 30 speakers! I am strongly considering getting another one just to have as a backup. It's just that good. Anyway, my idea is that by going this route I can always delegate it to another room to power speakers in that room when I get the XMC. For 599.00 new with a 3 year warranty .......this is going to be hard to beat. I had not heard that much about Sherwood, so here are some links I found about this unit in case you haven't heard much about it either. Good Luck! REVIEWS: Kal Rubinson/Stereophile Review: www.stereophile.com/musicintheround/music_in_the_round_42/index.htmlMark Fleischmann/ Home Theater Magazine www.hometheater.com/receivers/sherwood_newcastle_r-972_av_receiver/Daniel Kuman/Sound and Vision Magazine www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/sherwood-newcastle-r-972-av-receiverBut but but - its a receiver. <gasp> As for a poll to rate the sound of a receiver vs separates - it would be subjective. And how could it be anything but without a DBX? Therefore proving? ----- nothing much. It would be a popularity contest at best. I've heard some very good receivers (and bad ones too) over the years. And good and bad separate systems too. I see/read this argument almost daily here and elsewhere. I'd rather have a good receiver than a ho-hum separate setup any day. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2013 19:53:02 GMT -5
Ultimately, it's up to the OP. I was suggesting this a stepping stone before going separates (although I use the R-972 as a pre/pro until the XMC arrives) in case finances were a consideration especially considering he lives in the Land Down Under where the prices are in a Land Up Above, lol
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Post by Metaldude on Jan 25, 2013 20:45:13 GMT -5
G'day guys, Probably gunna go with Denon 4311 at this point , main reason is that it has xt32, the Marantz does'nt ..May be able to pick one up around $1800aus , still with complete warranty...We'll see... Moola is a bit thin now I ordered xpa 5, xpa 2 is not available until march, so gunna get 2 X xpa 1's, grin ,grin , should make them RF 7II 's clear their throat..
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Post by Metaldude on Feb 24, 2013 22:55:41 GMT -5
G'day guys, Probably gunna go with Denon 4311 at this point , main reason is that it has xt32, the Marantz does'nt ..May be able to pick one up around $1800aus , still with complete warranty...We'll see... Moola is a bit thin now I ordered xpa 5, xpa 2 is not available until march, so gunna get 2 X xpa 1's, grin ,grin , should make them RF 7II 's clear their throat.. Got the Denon 4311 ,for a good price ,I'm happy about it , just got to get other stuff now |
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Post by fsubales on Feb 25, 2013 8:11:20 GMT -5
G'day guys, Probably gunna go with Denon 4311 at this point , main reason is that it has xt32, the Marantz does'nt ..May be able to pick one up around $1800aus , still with complete warranty...We'll see... Moola is a bit thin now I ordered xpa 5, xpa 2 is not available until march, so gunna get 2 X xpa 1's, grin ,grin , should make them RF 7II 's clear their throat.. You will love your set up. Trust me... |
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