klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Feb 4, 2013 21:23:43 GMT -5
True...but...my point stands. And, looking under the cover does not provide the guy's logic behind his choice.
Mark
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Post by 2channon on Feb 4, 2013 22:17:36 GMT -5
2channon - isn't it great when the overall technical leader from a company jumps in and shares his info and logic behind his choices? Where else do you get this? It's a rarity in our modern world...and I love that we get such attention. Thanks Lonnie! Mark Yes it is. I am definitely sold on the brand and love the candor from the top down. I have a friend that got me into the world of critical listening (he's an audiophile). I'm sorry to say that he has bought into the snake oil of AudioQuest cables along with many other way over priced solutions to non-existent problems. Well, after doing alot of research and listening I found Emotiva. Long story short...My system sounds better than his for pennies on the dollar. ;D |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Feb 4, 2013 22:24:02 GMT -5
LOL! I have some Transparent cables I will gladly sell your friend!
Mark
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Post by ÈlTwo on Feb 5, 2013 14:38:04 GMT -5
LOL! I have some Transparent cables I will gladly sell your friend! Mark Are those 'The Emperor's New Cables?' |
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Post by fschris on Feb 5, 2013 14:47:46 GMT -5
2channon - isn't it great when the overall technical leader from a company jumps in and shares his info and logic behind his choices? Where else do you get this? It's a rarity in our modern world...and I love that we get such attention. Thanks Lonnie! Mark makes me want to buy a UMC200 |
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Post by srrndhound on Feb 5, 2013 15:49:13 GMT -5
True...but...my point stands. And, looking under the cover does not provide the guy's logic behind his choice. The only logic Lonnie provided was that he did not use a 32-bit DAC because there's no 32-bit content. That really has nothing to do with how one ought to choose a DAC. There's nothing wrong at all with using a 24-bit DAC, BTW. Just the logic. |
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Post by GreenKiwi on Feb 5, 2013 15:56:27 GMT -5
I disagree. It's not just about choosing a DAC, it's about choosing the right DAC for the whole product, at a particular price range. If you have nothing that will take advantage of the 32 bit DAC and it costs more, or could be more problematic to implement and/or sounds worse, then picking the 24bit DAC makes lots of sense. And there's also R&D costs, if you already have a working system with the current DAC and like it, then changing to a new DAC with possible new issues doesn't make sense.
N extra $ saved from going with the 24bit DAC can be applied to some other part of the product where the gains will be more visible/audible to the user.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Feb 5, 2013 17:00:24 GMT -5
The only logic Lonnie provided was that he did not use a 32-bit DAC because there's no 32-bit content. That really has nothing to do with how one ought to choose a DAC. You might not LIKE that logic, but it is 100% logical. |
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Post by yves on Feb 5, 2013 17:47:04 GMT -5
There are two different "types" of 32-bit DAC chips, though. Some can accept 32-bit input, while others are still limited to 24-bit input but internally upconvert it to 32-bit (such as the ESS Technologies SABRE³² Reference ES9018).
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Feb 5, 2013 21:56:01 GMT -5
And...it is this very logic I was referring to. I value hearing this type of thing. Ever company has to decide what features to include and not include. I really value Emotiva's candor in sharing their logic behind these choices. One can agree or not with their choices, but each time they share their logic - it makes me think harder about my choices.
Mark
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Feb 5, 2013 21:58:21 GMT -5
Oh - these are wonderful cables that will lift a veil, turn water into wine, and since they are transparent - one can't even see cable clutter. The Emperor would be proud to wear them on a horseback ride through town...they would even make the horse sound better.  Mark |
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Post by jevans64 on Feb 7, 2013 1:16:28 GMT -5
isn't it great when the overall technical leader from a company jumps in and shares his info and logic behind his choices? Where else do you get this? It's a rarity in our modern world...and I love that we get such attention. It's not hard to find out. Anyone with a screwdriver could have looked under the bonnet. Yep. That IS true but the beauty of owning Emotiva gear is that we don't HAVE to take a screwdriver to our gear in order to glean information. Lonnie told us what is basically inside it and even gave us an idea of the signal path. That tells me a lot more about Emotiva as a company than just putting up specs. That communicates confidence in the products Emotiva develops for us. A lot of companies, like Bose, hide their inferior specs. It takes confidence to put up specs and tests like Emotiva does. |
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Post by jamesbaby on Feb 7, 2013 10:25:52 GMT -5
2channon - isn't it great when the overall technical leader from a company jumps in and shares his info and logic behind his choices? Where else do you get this? It's a rarity in our modern world...and I love that we get such attention. Thanks Lonnie! Mark +1 Folk can always look under the bonnet to see numbers, but that doesn't mean one can understand the makers logic. So thanks Lonnie.  |
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Post by ladesign on Feb 7, 2013 12:27:14 GMT -5
What I'm more curious about is why they chose the '518 version of the codec part and not the '528. It is a very small increase in price for a reasonable increase in performance. From what I understand both of these are fairly common parts used in designs where there is a cost challenge and the performance of a 100dB or 114dB part will work well. There are any number of designs out there with the '528 version in the AVR world, as most companies do use the better part. Not familiar with any these days that use the '518 version.
Nothing wrong with using an "eight banger" rather than discrete stereo DACs and ADC. It is the implementation that is as important as the sound, but for the few pennies it is really surprising that they took the lower of the two similar parts in what is supposed to be an audiophile oriented product.
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Post by srrndhound on Feb 7, 2013 19:30:28 GMT -5
And...it is this very logic I was referring to. I value hearing this type of thing. Ever company has to decide what features to include and not include. I really value Emotiva's candor in sharing their logic behind these choices. One can agree or not with their choices, but each time they share their logic - it makes me think harder about my choices. As I said, I do not disagree with their choice of a 24-bit DAC. But the "logic" that it is useless to use a 32-bit DAC because there is no 32-bit content misses the point. Of course there is no 32-bit content. That is not why 32-bit DACs were developed. Nor why the DSP used in the UMC-200 outputs 32-bit data, or has 72-bit accumulators. What he shared was not logic, but an illogical misunderstanding. |
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Post by srrndhound on Feb 7, 2013 19:41:01 GMT -5
There are two different "types" of 32-bit DAC chips, though. Some can accept 32-bit input, while others are still limited to 24-bit input but internally upconvert it to 32-bit (such as the ESS Technologies SABRE³² Reference ES9018). The 9018 data sheet states: >>The SABRE32 Reference audio DAC’s 32-bit Hyperstream architecture can handle full 32-bit PCM data via I2S input<< so it does not appear to be limited to 24-bit data. |
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Post by srrndhound on Feb 7, 2013 20:20:57 GMT -5
I disagree. It's not just about choosing a DAC, it's about choosing the right DAC for the whole product, at a particular price range. Ok. That's a fair approach, and I said as much when I acknowledged that a 24-but DAC makes sense. If the DSP outputs 32-bit data, how do you know there's nothing there worthy of taking advantage >24 bits? Except Lonnie made no mention of it costing more, being more problematic, or sounding worse. Nope. No mention of that either. It was all about content being limited to 24 bits, so in order to use the 32-bit DSP into the 32-bit DAC he'd have to set the bottom 8 bits to zeros. |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Feb 7, 2013 20:24:08 GMT -5
Damn man, I think you've made your point. You don't like it. Fine. Don't buy it.
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Feb 7, 2013 20:39:46 GMT -5
I agree with Dave...if you do not like the logic he used, then just move on. You need to accept that whether one agrees or disagrees with someone else's logic, that it's at least nice to hear it. It's rare to hear from a company, and I like hearing their thoughts.
That's all I was saying. Please - get over it and move on.
Thanks,
Mark
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Post by monkumonku on Feb 7, 2013 21:09:17 GMT -5
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