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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 8, 2013 15:00:00 GMT -5
^ +1 for Trey!
I'm a "Stereophile" subscriber and also a "The Absolute Sound" subscriber. Can I afford half of what they review? Nope. Then why read about it? I like to know what's the latest technology, where the "trickle-down-effects" are likely to show up, and what's the best in affordable bargains.
Do I rely on what I read to know what's good? Nope again. I heard (and profoundly liked) the Magneplanar 1.5 speakers before any of the magazines reviewed them. Do my ears feel vindicated that the critics agreed with me? Maybe, but I still count my personal experience as the decision maker.
I don't understand all the hostility toward reviews of stuff you can't afford. Lots of guys like to read about cars, motorcycles, boats & motors, or (insert favorite hobby item here) that they can't afford. So you don't like reviews of expensive things? Do I detect the aroma of sour grapes??
If I suddenly won the lottery, would I actually purchase any of the kilo-thousand-dollar items that I've read about? Probably not, but I might take the opportunity to at least listen to them. Of course, given the opportunity, I'd probably listen to the expensive stuff even without having won the lottery.
I appreciate the engineering and fanatical parts/construction quality that goes into stuff like that. The time & effort must be compensated. Since they expect to sell so few of them, then the year(s) of engineering that went into the design have to be paid for somewhere. It isn't like they're mass market products. It also isn't like their employees are working in their spare time for free either.
That's why I like Emotiva so much. I find the products that I've bought to have 90% of the sound of all the "best of the best" that I've ever heard. By direct distribution, they've avoided the multiple "middle-man-markups." The value of Emotiva makes them such a good deal that they're growing by leaps and bounds (as they deserve to).
I may never be able to spring for Magico speakers or MBLs, but I can enjoy a more musical system than I've EVER been able to afford before thanks to judicious selection from the used market (selected with the help of "Stereophile" and "The Absolute Sound" magazines) and wonderful Emotiva products.
Do I look like a happy camper? Yes, I do!
:-)
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guitarforlife
Sensei
Just another busy day in Northern Wisconsin.
Posts: 947
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Post by guitarforlife on Feb 8, 2013 15:53:56 GMT -5
^ +1 for Trey! I'm a "Stereophile" subscriber and also a "The Absolute Sound" subscriber. Can I afford half of what they review? Nope. Then why read about it? I like to know what's the latest technology, where the "trickle-down-effects" are likely to show up, and what's the best in affordable bargains. Do I rely on what I read to know what's good? Nope again. I heard (and profoundly liked) the Magneplanar 1.5 speakers before any of the magazines reviewed them. Do my ears feel vindicated that the critics agreed with me? Maybe, but I still count my personal experience as the decision maker. I don't understand all the hostility toward reviews of stuff you can't afford. Lots of guys like to read about cars, motorcycles, boats & motors, or (insert favorite hobby item here) that they can't afford. So you don't like reviews of expensive things? Do I detect the aroma of sour grapes?? If I suddenly won the lottery, would I actually purchase any of the kilo-thousand-dollar items that I've read about? Probably not, but I might take the opportunity to at least listen to them. Of course, given the opportunity, I'd probably listen to the expensive stuff even without having won the lottery. I appreciate the engineering and fanatical parts/construction quality that goes into stuff like that. The time & effort must be compensated. Since they expect to sell so few of them, then the year(s) of engineering that went into the design have to be paid for somewhere. It isn't like they're mass market products. It also isn't like their employees are working in their spare time for free either. That's why I like Emotiva so much. I find the products that I've bought to have 90% of the sound of all the "best of the best" that I've ever heard. By direct distribution, they've avoided the multiple "middle-man-markups." The value of Emotiva makes them such a good deal that they're growing by leaps and bounds (as they deserve to). I may never be able to spring for Magico speakers or MBLs, but I can enjoy a more musical system than I've EVER been able to afford before thanks to judicious selection from the used market (selected with the help of "Stereophile" and "The Absolute Sound" magazines) and wonderful Emotiva products. Do I look like a happy camper? Yes, I do! :-) Nope no sour grapes with me. My house is paid for my cars are paid for and I have no credit cards I pay with CASH. I'm 50 years old and only have to work 16 weeks a year. Because I DON"T rack up Credit Cards with stupid things like $50,000.00 INSERT what ever hobby you may have. My time with my family is way to precious to me to be a slave to a Bank or credit card company. I get to see all my child's Plays ,games, or whatever or whenever I like. If I wanted to buy $50,000.00 whatever I could . So nope no sour grapes with me. Its not the expense that irritates me its the way everything is perceived. Whatever the hobby. A manufacture makes product" A "and it's like if I charge a huge amount for it will make it's own market. If a Ferrari cost $8,000. it would not have the mystique it dose. Its the old studio 54. The more you cant get in the more you want to. I chose not to get in.
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Post by drtrey3 on Feb 8, 2013 15:59:30 GMT -5
Boomzilla, we have very similar perceptions and values. But if I hit the jackpot, I would throw down the cash for a system that cost so much I would be embarassed to say. 8)
And I would be to frightened to say to my wife!
Not that that will ever happen. In this life, I am so happy to keep buying Emotiva and enjoying the music. Next up will be a 5 channel amp.
Have a great weekend everyone.
Trey
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 8, 2013 16:33:34 GMT -5
...Whatever the hobby. A manufacture makes product" A "and it's like if I charge a huge amount for it will make it's own market...If a Ferrari cost $8,000. it would not have the mystique it dose....Its the old studio 54. The more you cant get in the more you want to...I chose not to get in. Well, you're talking about marketing, and how that can create demand for a product. If we're talking about a 1-meter interconnect for mega-bucks, then yes, I agree with you. If we're talking, however, about a manufacturer's top of the line loudspeaker (be it Vanderstein, Thiel, MBL, Magneplanar, etc.) then I think that you're paying less for exclusivity and more for the engineering and construction. Let's also not forget the shipping and distribution costs. Speakers weighing hundreds of pounds are NOT cheap to ship. Further, the shipping costs make it cost-prohibitive to offer a money-back return policy. Nobody's laying down thousands upon thousands of dollars for a speaker that they haven't even heard. The fact that the buyer MUST audition the speaker before purchasing it makes for additional profit requirements for the store who stocks, demonstrates, and sells the item. Further, should the manufacturer replace the existing model, the retailer gets stuck with product that has to be discounted to move it. The marketing model adds LOTS of overhead to the cost of selling high end audio. I'm not saying that the cost of top-end gear isn't excessive. What I am saying is that, at least in some cases, it isn't about raising the price to create the perception of exclusivity. The previous comments, again, lead to my fondness for Emotiva products and their marketing strategy. The products aren't so expensive that one hesitates to buy them before hearing them. The return policy encourages consumers to buy with confidence. The elimination of middle-man stocking and showroom markups makes the products a fantastic value for the money. And finally, the owners are honest and friendly. Cheers - Boom-badda-boom-a-zilla
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guitarforlife
Sensei
Just another busy day in Northern Wisconsin.
Posts: 947
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Post by guitarforlife on Feb 9, 2013 1:07:09 GMT -5
...Whatever the hobby. A manufacture makes product" A "and it's like if I charge a huge amount for it will make it's own market...If a Ferrari cost $8,000. it would not have the mystique it dose....Its the old studio 54. The more you cant get in the more you want to...I chose not to get in. Well, you're talking about marketing, and how that can create demand for a product. If we're talking about a 1-meter interconnect for mega-bucks, then yes, I agree with you. If we're talking, however, about a manufacturer's top of the line loudspeaker (be it Vanderstein, Thiel, MBL, Magneplanar, etc.) then I think that you're paying less for exclusivity and more for the engineering and construction. Let's also not forget the shipping and distribution costs. Speakers weighing hundreds of pounds are NOT cheap to ship. Further, the shipping costs make it cost-prohibitive to offer a money-back return policy. Nobody's laying down thousands upon thousands of dollars for a speaker that they haven't even heard. The fact that the buyer MUST audition the speaker before purchasing it makes for additional profit requirements for the store who stocks, demonstrates, and sells the item. Further, should the manufacturer replace the existing model, the retailer gets stuck with product that has to be discounted to move it. The marketing model adds LOTS of overhead to the cost of selling high end audio. I'm not saying that the cost of top-end gear isn't excessive. What I am saying is that, at least in some cases, it isn't about raising the price to create the perception of exclusivity. The previous comments, again, lead to my fondness for Emotiva products and their marketing strategy. The products aren't so expensive that one hesitates to buy them before hearing them. The return policy encourages consumers to buy with confidence. The elimination of middle-man stocking and showroom markups makes the products a fantastic value for the money. And finally, the owners are honest and friendly. Cheers - Boom-badda-boom-a-zilla I understand all that very well I owned a manufacturing company that sold to large chain stores (Wal Mart, Bass pro shops,Dunams,Dicks, ect.) We hold 17 assorted patents on items and have designed for other manufactures as well. So I think I know what your saying and understand it. But all that you have said still dose not justify the prices asked for certain items. There is no alchemy here no sonic gold. Things are what they are. I'm not saying they do not have the right to make a living off there ideas and designs. I still believe it is marking a idea. A belief in something better, The best we can get.
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emovac
Emo VIPs
Saeed al-Sahhaf
Posts: 2,456
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Post by emovac on Feb 9, 2013 2:55:26 GMT -5
The Absolute Sound wouldn't "stoop" to reviewing truly budget equipment. I let my subscription run out. The trial was about $14 for a year, and was renewal was closer to $30.
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Erwin.BE
Emo VIPs
It's the room, stupid!
Posts: 2,262
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Post by Erwin.BE on Feb 9, 2013 9:57:10 GMT -5
The thing about Stereophile and the likes is that if they state, as they should, that Emotiva amps is all you ever need, the'd have to comment on all the other brands that they are overpriced. Which would not be a smart business move since those brands advertise in the magazine. BTW, Norah Jones was raised by her mom, I read she had very little contact with her father. She's an all American girl. I love her and her music! And there's a new peach coming to the stage: Trixie Whitley. Check her out, her debut album is fantastic. Her voice reminds me of Alicia Keys, but Trixie's taste in music is far better. And she can play drums, piano and guitar! www.trixiewhitley.com/I just noticed that she performs in The Basement, Nashville TN tonight @ 9pm! I will be checking her out in July, in Gent.
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Post by indyscammer on Feb 9, 2013 10:30:26 GMT -5
^ The Basement is a little bitty place under Grimey's Record Store.....holds maybe 50 people. Neat place to see a show.
Back to the thread.....I recently ended up with a free subscription to Sound & Vision. Seems a realistic mag to me. The other pub I have experience with is Home Theater which also reviews the spectrum of gear. They do always do a "see what stoopid $$ can buy" piece but that is part of the fun. To each his own but there are publications out there that pander to any and all audiences.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2013 11:55:06 GMT -5
>> The Basement is a little bitty place under Grimey's Record Store.....holds maybe 50 people. Neat place to see a show. <<
Bring earplugs, you may need them...
-RW-
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Post by savjac on Feb 9, 2013 15:15:59 GMT -5
That is a good deal of money for a pair of amps, but its value lies in what a customer will pay for it. If not a single piece sells for $55,000 then Dan has made an error in value judgement. The market will bear what the market will bear.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Feb 9, 2013 17:13:33 GMT -5
I tend to agree with Boomzilla's assessment that like other things in life - cars, homes, food, wine, guitars, cameras, lots of stuff - that we each have threshold levels where things become: lousy, acceptable, good, great, as good as I can distinguish/enjoy/accept, and over the top. I might be willing to spend more on a hamburger, but maybe less on a bottle of wine than you, doesn't make either of us wrong. We each might think the other is wasting their money, but we each know we enjoy whatever it is that we bought.
Some people may just have a garage full of expensive and exotic cars that they never drive, it gives them pleasure just to have them. Other people feel you shouldn't spend extra for an XPA if a UPA has enough power to do what you need. I like the build of the XPA and would rather have an XPR whether I needed the power or not, I might even hear a difference (or not), nothing wrong with that. If there's a market for these products in Stereophile then why not have someone to review them and give them exposure. I'm not excusing condescending attitudes, or bad writing, just that there's a place for a lot of products in this world.
The "Concert For George" is also a great place to see Anoushka and Ravi Shankar's work, they open the concert very nicely.
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Post by 12elfthfloor on Feb 15, 2013 18:37:00 GMT -5
I finally got around to reading the article and thought it was a great read, thank you. If I was the owner of the company and read that article I would be justly proud of the products I have created, the people that helped me get the companies to where they are today, and knowing where I intend to go next.
Congratulations to the team and one day I would really like to visit.
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