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Post by mattxwill on Feb 13, 2013 13:03:48 GMT -5
Help me out here. I am getting a static/noise/hum passed into my speakers through the sonos connect which is connected to my Emotiva XPA3 amp. While not terribly annoying once the speakers are on, its constant static when they are not. Here is the weird part. Even if the music is OFF, and I toggle around the volume control from my Android phone, this action is reflected through my speakers as a change in static/noise. It is clear that the electronics in the Sonos Connect, is being transmitted into the Amp, and in turn into the speakers.
Here is the set up:
Sonos connect is hooked directly into an Emotiva Amplifier. (This is temporary, as I am buying a receiver tonight to try and fix this).
This amp in turn is of course hooked into my speakers (B&W CM8s FWIW).
Other Observations to help troubleshoot:
When the amp ONLY is on, no noise is present.
Once I turn on the Sonos system the noise starts, whether I have music present or not.
Noise does not change regardless of where I place the Sonos (i.e on top of or away from the AMP and cables)
Question is obvious:
How do I eliminate this noise?
Will an AVR “filter” this? Will a DAC? Isn’t the sonos a DAC in itself?
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Post by jlafrenz on Feb 13, 2013 13:07:19 GMT -5
It sounds like a pre-amp of sorts would be your best bet.
Is it a hiss or a hum? If it is a hum, then you may have a ground loop.
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Post by mattxwill on Feb 13, 2013 13:10:41 GMT -5
hiss. Definitely a staticky hiss, is that is a word.
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Post by The Mad Norseman on Feb 13, 2013 14:02:54 GMT -5
Again,...why is it that *SO MANY* people greatly resist using a proper pre-amp in their systems?!
Maybe I'm just an old fuddy, du,...er, um,...oh, okay I see the problem now...
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Post by mattxwill on Feb 13, 2013 14:26:06 GMT -5
Again,...why is it that *SO MANY* people greatly resist using a proper pre-amp in their systems?! Maybe I'm just an old fuddy, du,...er, um,...oh, okay I see the problem now... Haha, hence the NEWBIE forum. ;-) I simply didnt know its importance!! I do not watch TV, or even own one, so initially saw no need as I am building slowly. I knew the sonos connected to just an amp and speakers was the initially the cheapest way to start and would meet 95% of my needs. Or so I though....Now i am learning the importance of a preamp. On that note, I considered a Emotive UMC-200, and a marantz. i am having a Marantz 1403 delivered today. I hope it helps! why that model..one of their cheapest? Its available today (as opposed to the UMC, and I am hoping to rely on the amp to really drive the speakers. i didnt think i needed much else. I will hook the sonos into that through an optical cable and hope it fixes it. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2013 14:29:13 GMT -5
Well, if your "device" has preamp-like capabilities that suit your needs, why would you incur the expense of a dedicated preamp? For many folks, an Oppo BDP-103/105 gives them everything they need by way of a source, bass management, and volume control.
Back to the OP's question. What is connected to the Sonos - Ethernet? Analog inputs?
And how do you have it connected to the XPA-3? I see no line-level outputs, only speaker-level.
-RW- PS: I bet the noise is coming thru either the pwoer supply of the Sonos or the Ethernet cable...
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Post by mattxwill on Feb 13, 2013 14:37:31 GMT -5
Well, if your "device" has preamp-like capabilities that suit your needs, why would you incur the expense of a dedicated preamp? For many folks, an Oppo BDP-103/105 gives them everything they need by way of a source, bass management, and volume control. Back to the OP's question. What is connected to the Sonos - Ethernet? Analog inputs? And how do you have it connected to the XPA-3? I see no line-level outputs, only speaker-level. -RW- PS: I bet the noise is coming thru either the pwoer supply of the Sonos or the Ethernet cable... The "Connect" device is wireless, and you are supposed to connect the analog audio out to the amp (or AVR). You also have the option to connect it via Optical or coax. I have it connected by RCA. The "connect amp" is another product in which case you do not need an amp as it already has it built in. |
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Post by mattxwill on Feb 13, 2013 14:50:05 GMT -5
Well, if your "device" has preamp-like capabilities that suit your needs, why would you incur the expense of a dedicated preamp? For many folks, an Oppo BDP-103/105 gives them everything they need by way of a source, bass management, and volume control. ... OMG...RLW the Oppo might be just what I ACTUALLY need! Let me catch my breath and ask you this NOOB question, as you may have just saved me a few hundred bucks. The reason I was looking to get the Maranz AVR are for these reasons: 1) I need an HDMI input for when I stream Netflix from my computer 2) to take advantage of the Audessy sound technology. 3) Because it can drive my subwoofer, and one day could drive rear channels if desired. And 4) to (Possibly) to fix the sonos hiss. But I would still need a CD player. If I am reading the specs right on this thing, the Oppo solves 4 problems above: 1, 3, 4, and the lack of a CD player. The only thing I lack by buying the Oppo is the room correction technology. Is this correct? |
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Feb 13, 2013 15:42:48 GMT -5
If you want room correction with/for your sub integration, you will need an AVR that has that.
However, most of the menus are done via hdmi and you said you have no TV/display?
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Feb 13, 2013 17:21:05 GMT -5
Yes, the Sonos (the analog output) has its own DAC. The Sonos Connect I've seen is a little white box with a pair of RCA outputs (and some nice digital ones). Since (apparently) Volume control is accomplished by remote control from the phone, the Sonos has a digital volume control, which turns the digital audio itself up and down before the D/A conversion. In other words, the music gets louder and quieter, but the noise level of the output is fixed. It seems most likely that you are simply hearing the "noise background" of the Sonos being boosted by the gain of our amp. (The Sonos really expects to be connected to some preamp or other device with a volume control.) If so, then putting a preamp between the Sonos and the amp will eliminate the problem; using an outboard DAC (like our XDA-2) will eliminate the problem and also improve your sound quality considerably. If the noise is relatively quiet to begin with, simply putting a set of passive attenuators (maybe 12 dB) between the Sonos and our amp will reduce everything (including the noise) by that amount - then, when you turn the Volume control on the Sonos up higher, the music will get louder... but not the noise. It is not unusual for slight computer noises to "bleed through" into the audio - hopefully at very low levels. [To answer your question: nothing will "filter" it. If the noise just seems loud because the music is playing very quietly, then an attenuator or preamp will make the noise seems lower by lowering both the noise and the music, at which point you will turn the music up higher to make it louder again. Running through a DAC will eliminate the noise because you won't be using the Sonos analog section any more.] If the noise is very loud, then it could be that the Sonos is "dumping" noise onto the ground or signal line because of digital noise leakage. If so, then a better power supply may be required, or you may have to try to ground it better. Help me out here. I am getting a static/noise/hum passed into my speakers through the sonos connect which is connected to my Emotiva XPA3 amp. While not terribly annoying once the speakers are on, its constant static when they are not. Here is the weird part. Even if the music is OFF, and I toggle around the volume control from my Android phone, this action is reflected through my speakers as a change in static/noise. It is clear that the electronics in the Sonos Connect, is being transmitted into the Amp, and in turn into the speakers. Here is the set up: Sonos connect is hooked directly into an Emotiva Amplifier. (This is temporary, as I am buying a receiver tonight to try and fix this). This amp in turn is of course hooked into my speakers (B&W CM8s FWIW). Other Observations to help troubleshoot: When the amp ONLY is on, no noise is present. Once I turn on the Sonos system the noise starts, whether I have music present or not. Noise does not change regardless of where I place the Sonos (i.e on top of or away from the AMP and cables) Question is obvious: How do I eliminate this noise? Will an AVR “filter” this? Will a DAC? Isn’t the sonos a DAC in itself? |
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Post by Porscheguy on Feb 13, 2013 18:57:12 GMT -5
I have a house full of Sonos and its dead quiet. Trying going through a preamp as the ZP 90 was designed. You might have better luck.
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Feb 13, 2013 19:23:28 GMT -5
I was going to say the same thing as Ed...I have 4 Sonos zones within my house. One (a ZP 90 - now known as the ZP Connect) goes through a preamp to feed sound to my great room, kitchen, master bedroom, and hot tub room via an old Rotel preamp and amp. And, it's dead silent. As are the rest -well, except for the one at the back deck and pool, which have background noise of summer breezes, birds, crickets, and splashing in the pool. (The other 3 are 2 ZP 120's - aka ZP Amp's, and 1 portable unit...the "5". And, while not "audiophile level sound" do not have hiss/hum at all...)
Mark
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Post by mattxwill on Feb 13, 2013 19:32:14 GMT -5
Awesome, great advice. Sounds like the preamp will solve the issue. BTW, I LOVE LOVE the sonos. Well worth the cost if anyone was considering one.
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Post by briank on Feb 13, 2013 22:18:56 GMT -5
Two things to try. First, be sure and use shielded interconnects. Second, run a ground wire from Sonis chassis to Amp chassis.
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Post by yves on Feb 14, 2013 4:26:26 GMT -5
Again,...why is it that *SO MANY* people greatly resist using a proper pre-amp in their systems?! Maybe I'm just an old fuddy, du,...er, um,...oh, okay I see the problem now... The reason for that is pretty simple IMO. A "proper" preamp, as you describe it, does not come cheap and, on top of that, it lengthens the signal path so all it really does is it muddies the sound unless it's not just a "proper" one, but a very EXCELLENT one indeed. Of course if you need to be able to switch input between different sources, or if your only source is causing an impedance and / or voltage gain mismatch with the amplifier's inputs, that's when adding a preamp becomes generally unavoidable. |
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Post by wizardofoz on Feb 14, 2013 5:39:25 GMT -5
Two things to try. First, be sure and use shielded interconnects. Second, run a ground wire from Sonis chassis to Amp chassis. +1 for that |
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Post by The Mad Norseman on Feb 14, 2013 22:37:36 GMT -5
Again,...why is it that *SO MANY* people greatly resist using a proper pre-amp in their systems?! Maybe I'm just an old fuddy, du,...er, um,...oh, okay I see the problem now... The reason for that is pretty simple IMO. A "proper" preamp, as you describe it, does not come cheap and, on top of that, it lengthens the signal path so all it really does is it muddies the sound unless it's not just a "proper" one, but a very EXCELLENT one indeed. Of course if you need to be able to switch input between different sources, or if your only source is causing an impedance and / or voltage gain mismatch with the amplifier's inputs, that's when adding a preamp becomes generally unavoidable. Gee, I've never had (or heard) "muddy sound" when using a pre-amp! Not sure what pre-amps you've been listening to, but,...  |
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Post by ausman on Feb 14, 2013 22:52:38 GMT -5
static hum hmm by chance you aren't using 3.5mm-rca y's are you???
been playing around with pc audio for years, unless you use hdmi or sp/dif optical or a pro audio card with rca terminals you aren't going to remove that ground hum out have, as it is 3.5mm grounding issue causing the hum...
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