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Post by dougc on Aug 29, 2013 20:27:29 GMT -5
The difference in those graphs are amazing, I will definitely be checking that out when I get the umc 200. No sliders for my granddaughter to mess with. I was asking about the NHT subs because I have replaced a lot of drivers on NHT subs. As far as the Bash amp they sell for $228.00 at parts express and $179 twice a year. Nice amp. Doug
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2013 21:52:36 GMT -5
Oh dang . When was the last time you replaced a driver in one, any recent subs from them? Well I was going to watch a movie, but of course, I blame ASUS for the bluray drive incompatability and the company that put the protection on the bluray disc, because my drive will not see that there is a disc in the drive...grrr. DRM with video games is bad enough, and then to have an official disc not play in a player because of copy protection which is always breakable in some form so it seems, is complete bs. Have you had that issue before?
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Post by dougc on Sept 1, 2013 10:50:27 GMT -5
It's been a couple years since replaced the last one. At that time I had 3 in a row, 2-12" and one 10 incher. I have probably replaced about 9or 10 in all, and all but the one have been 12" subs. But on the positive side they were all 10 yr. or older models. Most of them were also set up wrong with the gain on the preamp full blast and the amp full blast as well. Don't figure. As far as the DVD, yes I have actually my wife has had the problem more. She also has a Asus.
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Post by dougc on Sept 1, 2013 11:12:53 GMT -5
Tyler in almost all the subs, I replaced them with the Dayton Reference HF series sub (model # RSS315HF-4). Everybody has been blown away by the difference. For $150. I don't think there is a sub out there that can touch it. That is the model I use also.
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Post by dougc on Sept 1, 2013 11:15:00 GMT -5
I also have not heard any of the new NHT's either though so I can not compare.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2013 16:38:03 GMT -5
Looks like a hungry speaker . Good set of reviews though! Yeah I bet you had clipping right into the inputs of those older units. Doesn't even surprise me that they blew with those settings, how come you chose to set it so high? If I get in a position to be able to afford anything in the near future, I will have the advantage of testing one of my dads NHT B-12d's, will chart on a graph as well in comparison to the Mirage and can show you if you are interested at all, no biggie.
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Post by dougc on Sept 2, 2013 21:36:25 GMT -5
How come I chose it so high? What are you talking about? and they are not hungry at all.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2013 21:42:18 GMT -5
-> "Most of them were also set up wrong with the gain on the preamp full blast and the amp full blast as well."
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Post by dougc on Sept 2, 2013 23:54:36 GMT -5
I'm confused, it happens regurarly though. The Dayton subs are far from being hungry. They are the cleanest sounding sub I have ever heard period.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2013 0:01:55 GMT -5
That is good with how much you love that sub! I was confused about you having the gain so high on both the SW preout and the SW amp itself, back in the day when you were blowing woofers in prior NHT units. It sounds like you were employing the perfect recipe and it seems to be a no brainer why they were blowing, you were probably overpowering the input section into distortion. Unless you were lucky to be getting components like I once did, where the sub amp fried the subwoofer with messy power at one point; smoking a car out in the process in the middle of the highway . Dang amp was shocking me on the speaker wires, messed up amp, never had that happen before nor again.
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Post by dougc on Sept 3, 2013 20:11:43 GMT -5
Alright I understand where the confusion is coming from. You see I build a lot of custom speakers from scratch, and also repair a lot of older speakers out of my house on a side business. None of the NHT subs I was talking about were mine, they were all different clients of mine. 7 posts back when I said, " That's the model sub I use also". Their I was referring to my own custom subs in my house. I built them about 7 yrs. ago with 800 watts going to each one and never a single problem yet. These are the ones I said I have tuned to 18Hz. Also all the NHT's, I was talking about are still working great with very happy clients. Doug
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2013 21:27:46 GMT -5
Did you replace the customers NHT sub enclosures with the same or a completely different driver? Any clue as to what had them go? The cones/burnt coils? Interesting, I'd love to know, Thanks . Oh by the way, my audio card has the option to replace the opamp (gain stage I think?); for the front two channels output on analog. I hope to sell my extra speakers sometime soon and swap to most likely, the OPA 627AU model opamp, and it takes two instead of one opamp currently, as well as the adapter for my audio card to support two opamps. The OPA627AU upgrade should clean up mids and highs, and give much better bass, for about 65 bucks, if I don't like it, its not an arm and a leg! I still need to double check that it isn't for just the headphone amp, but I am feeling pretty certain it works on the analog outs as well, just not anything digital of course. Curious to see if I would need to EQ those 2 channels again, but I think it would be worth it either way and I am more than willing to do that lol.
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Post by dougc on Sept 3, 2013 23:39:35 GMT -5
I replaced the customers original NHT subwoofers with the Dayton Reference Series sub, ( model # RSS315HF). The original drivers had blown voice coils/ motor assembly. Reread 10 posts again.
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Post by dougc on Sept 3, 2013 23:46:08 GMT -5
BTW the 500 watt Bash amp is on sale for $199. at Parts Express again right now.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2013 0:33:23 GMT -5
Thank You Doug, and yes my mistake defnitely on the replacement sub description misread. Most reviews are really good for the current gen NHT subs and I have not read of one blowing yet, nor are there a huge amount of reviews out either. NHT is sort of hidden in the market I think, as they are direct shipping and not in any stores. Considering that the NHT sub drivers that you replaced, were all of older ages, I think I will take my chances if I get any chances haha . My dad has 2 of them and they are rediculous for how loud they can play, so that makes me feel a bit better as they are still working after what in the heck I heard, which btw was an Audyssey eq foul up. I think my mom clanging dishes around and not being very quiet when getting dinner prepared during the test, HORRIBLE timing every time it was ran at the house, skewed the Audyssey EQ, until I moved the subs around by ear, and reran it at the house, which made it a world better. Anywho, the skewed EQ had the subs booming and damn near everything even in commercials, and had +20dB in a low region of hz for the FR speaker, which was read wrong, so my hunch is that there was +20dB on that goofed test, and the subs were gut wrenching. I feel safe, unless it was one of those olders without a swapped driver . Very informative, I appreciate it!
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Post by dougc on Sept 9, 2013 20:10:02 GMT -5
Well that sounds encouraging, hopefully their subs are better than their older models. Don't get me wrong their subs have always sounded awesome. Their older models just never held up. But on the other hand I have never had to replace a single driver in their speakers.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2013 7:32:30 GMT -5
I am hoping they last. They claim to be acoustic suspension design, who knows how true that is. After getting my 5.1 Graphic EQ'd up, I have been able to acquire that sound spectrum saved in my mind. I have EQ'd two of the vehicles on the property, one being a touchscreen with a 3 band parametric, and another with a shelving eq sort of, bass mid treble. Within ten minutes each, I had them sounding so much better, especially on A/B tests. I just did a software 10 band graphic EQ on my audio card that I can toggle for headphones, sounds better there as well! Definitely enjoying the heck out of this acquired skill! My Dad notices the difference in all scenarios whether I did it by ear or by actual analysis. . Gooday! haha.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2013 12:36:53 GMT -5
Doug . I managed to borrow the NHT B-12d. I did some measurements in REW, as well as listened by ear with just the sub playing for music and movies. The sound of the NHT is by far superior, however I must give major props to the Mirage MS-12. The Mirage is amazingly flat on response in my room naturally, more-so than the NHT, surprisingly. The drawback with the Mirage is the huffing of air from the port and the lack of precision, definitely giving a woodish hollow sound while swimming around the spectrum rather than keeping to its part to play in the mix. The NHT was rattling much harder, definitely lower, as expected going from 100 watts rms to 500 watts on a bash amp. I think the 500 watts might be the max. The driver in the NHT seems to hold its own very sturdily. The NHT really rolled through the tones far better, and definitely more accurate. I noticed playing Lord Of The Rings disc one at the beginning during a fight scene, that when Sauron swings his weapon multiple times sending the opposing men airborne, there is sort of a pulsating bass that sweeps over a decent range in the LFE channel. I used the scene as a reference to compare the subs for precision and to see how well each held on. Mirage huffed and sort of swam and felt weezy, while the NHT was aggressive at keeping a pace and not bloating. The NHT sort of hid itself without the port job, but played the notes far better. The NHT for music definitely had a defined edge and ability far greater than the Mirage. Mirage sort of hummed along (also huffed) and tried to get the notes, while the NHT just felt like it was riding the track and enjoying itself with ease. For running REW, I did not go with any reference points nor pushed the speaker limits of max dB, I just plainly compared subs at the same volume leveling. The NHT was a few inches in front of where the Mirage normally sits, so the comparison in frequencies are not comparable due to room acoustics. I just set the sub and tested, did not move the NHT around, and there is probably a better area right where the mirage is to get a better and more consistent reading. In REW on my frequency chart, 73dB was the average volume, while for some reason only the NHT showed a huge dip at 53hz about 61dB (equal to the output on my chart for 20hz). 30hz was 76dB with a nice clean even climb from 16hz. My results in the most likely crummy SW location are; 16hz@42dB 20hz@56.5dB 25hz@71dB 30hz@77dB (starts dropping from here for a bit) 43hz@73dB 53hz@60.5dB (lowest point in normal operating ranges) 77hz@73dB staying within 3dB to 140hz@72.3dB before evenly dropping to 200hz@53.50 If I was to run some EQ with it, I have a great feeling that I could have it really churning along especially if I can get placement to better that 53hz cut. Conclusion - The NHT is very much better in this room by ear, even with the 53hz cut having a huge dip from placement or from whatever room acoustic issues that I may have. The Mirage had more of a flattened natural response in this room in REW, but it definitely felt more like an averaged bass response reaction compared to the precise and expansion feeling with the NHT. The mirage felt summed of the bass, while the NHT felt like it really went from a low to high with quite the dynamics in between. The only thing that was better for the Mirage was the REW result but not by ear. The NHT was much stronger in the lower frequencies with more dB and reach. 25.6hz was along the average dB for the NHT response, the Mirage was around 34hz for its average dB. Quite the difference there. The NHT B-12d is a much smaller enclosure as well, I think it might be 14" cubed. Mirage MS-12 is HxWxD (16.3x17.3x16).
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2013 12:49:49 GMT -5
NHT (Blue) Mirage(Black) Extension to low end drops quickly from 27hz down on the NHT, while dropping quickly from 40hz down using the Mirage.
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Post by dougc on Sept 15, 2013 21:36:21 GMT -5
The NHT looks good on the freq. plots. On the other hand the Mirage looks like a one note wonder. Im surprised to see that out of Mirage. Personally I'm a fan of Passive radiator subs. The NHT looks impressive though.
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