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Post by dougc on Dec 21, 2013 12:31:19 GMT -5
So did you ever figure out that humming noise? I had a similular inncedient shortly after I bought my Peavey IPR 1600 amp that runs my subs. It started humming really bad, so I called Parts Express and they told me to bypass the ground and use a 2 prong adapter. Bingo the humming went away. In the mean time I went under my house and modified my grounding. Bam that worked. No more humming. Doug
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Post by dougc on Dec 21, 2013 12:52:25 GMT -5
Well it happened, my 1yr. contract at work ended yesterday. I am now on on the unenjoyment list, hopefully in 30 days I will be back. In the mean time, Merry F-ing Christmas.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2013 13:09:07 GMT -5
I did not figure out the humming noise, I doubt that I will though. That is horrible about your 1 year contract. I would say sorry but you don't need to be okay with it! I hope you find something else better and what have you. Awesome on your grounding! WOW! That is sweet that you got that working perfect. I cant remember how many prongs the EQ's are. All of my gear is running golden atm otherwise, including the Kenwood 500 . I got my TV calibrated to what was listed online and changed a few things on my graphics cards and I almost have a new tv with the black levels and color accuracy, amazing. I will have to check the prong ordeal on the EQ soon. Ill put it on my list to check.
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Post by dougc on Dec 23, 2013 13:48:28 GMT -5
That's awesome about your tv calibration. I am actually currently trying to decide which tv to go with next. Mine is starting to act up really bad. Oh well. Hey you have a great Christmas. Latter, Doug.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2013 17:09:55 GMT -5
Is it a smart tv that you can do a factory reset with? I have a situation with my tv that sometimes it will restart after a few minutes of being on, but it will only do this once in a sitting at most. I read that factory resetting it will fix it but I have all of these settings keyed in and am like eff that. its not a burden as its only a few seconds its off for and then im golded for the rest of viewing lol.
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Post by dougc on Dec 24, 2013 10:58:12 GMT -5
No, it has to do with the hole in the screen I told you about. For 2 yrs. It's been great, but now the screen is going out. It's forming a really bad jagged black border along the top and down one side. Also when you turn it on the pic. is really faded for a couple of minutes until it warms up. One of these days It's not going to come on at all. Now come tax time I need the UMC 200, a new TV, and hell I might as well throw in a new Blue Ray. Hopefully one with 5.1 or 7.1 preouts. Oh well, life goes on. Merry Christmas. I am trying to get another credit card, so I can get the UMC 200 while it's still on sale. Then I can just pay it off when I get my taxes.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2013 16:25:21 GMT -5
Doh, hope you figure out a tv situation soon! For bluray with outputs. bdp-103 for budget-like, bdp-105 for the better audio quality with better DAC components! Funny timing. All of the prior talk about gain stages and what not's, there may be a very epic solution under my nose that I missed. I had no way of getting a good DAC setup with preouts for okay amount of money, even that Denon was weak sauce. My dad has the Oppo BDP-105, which has usb/toslink/digital coax for 2ch DAC use, being fed from a computer or anything that matches the restrictions for 2ch. It also has an HDMI input on the back, so I should be able to run hdmi from my computer into the Oppo bluray device and use its 7.1 ext outputs, as well as there is balanced front L and R . I obviously do not have money but my dad will let me trial it out. It may just well remove that hum sound, at least change some grounding up, and remove emissions from computer noise on the audio card as it is now. I will let you know how that goes, but first I have two fried ML tweeters and a good lesson learned. I will keep you posted on that, and seriously, seriously look at that bdp-105 by oppo, or the 103 which is about half the price of the 105 but less audio gizzards . The 105 starts up a disc just like that, network functionality, netflix, if you use any of that. Had a good holidays I hope you did as well . If I can square this tweeter thing out, and if the oppo fits in great and allows balanced fronts mixed with unbalanced 7.1 outputs, the dbx units will take the balanced XLR, so the fronts I could get to that, but not into the kenwood unfortunately. I know the hum is only on when the computer is running anyways, so the oppo might eliminate that. Then it would be can i ever get money again to get anything like that. Back to the family. ttys Doug. Take care man!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2013 16:39:17 GMT -5
Basically, I would run HDMI 7.1 PCM audio from my computer audio card or graphics card, into the oppo player, and let the oppo convert to analog and gain stage it, run into the DBX EQ's and then into the power amps and subwoofer. Digital to the Oppo is unaffected by electrical issues or electronic noise from frequencies in the computer case and power supply. It should clean up a ton of issues there and may very well remove that hum completely on all channels...can hope. My audio card currently converts to analog so the power issues, power supply/fluctuations, and radio emission interference gets picked up a pinch, and also any grounding issues that may exist. I have a feeling that the handling of audio in the Oppo will whoop my audio card. Get back to you on that
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Post by dougc on Dec 27, 2013 11:54:45 GMT -5
Tyler hopefully that will take care of your issues. As inticing as the oppo 103 or 105 sound, that's not gonna happen. Remember I am a single income for 7 people. And actually currently unemployed. Not to mention that would be a little redundant. If I got the 105 there would be no reason to get the UMC 200, since the 105 acts as a preamp as well. I just threw in the Blue Ray because sometimes when you buy a new TV you get a free or 1/2 off a Blue Ray with it. I currently use my LG Blue Ray for movies, and I use my Toshiba DVD for music which has analog 5.1 pre outs. For music my Toshiba blows my LG away. It's just like when I get the UMC 200,I will not be running any video through it. All video goes straight to the TV, and all sound goes straight to the pre amp.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2013 12:12:12 GMT -5
Yeah I understand. I wasn't sure if you could find a bluray player that had preouts for anything near cheap. I think you very well might end up with having to run video into the umc by hdmi then the tv for bluray, unless you want to have lesser format in audio and run a toslink cable or digital coax and lose dts-ma and truehd. I could stand corrected though lol. . Mentioned it due to the pre-outs. If you find something though that has preouts please let me know, that would be interesting to me.
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Post by dougc on Dec 27, 2013 16:39:10 GMT -5
Samsung and Panasonic both have models with 5.1 analog audio outputs. I know manufactures aren't on the same page. Whats the point of having processors with 5.1 or 7.1 analog input if there is nothing to feed it? It's just like you don't see any 5 or 7 ch. amps with hdmi inputs. I mean seriously, now they are coming out with 4k televisions when cable has just caught up to 1080 and the standard for dvd is 1080. Who is going to supply the 4k. I mean ,I still have a Hitachi 52" rear projection tv I bought in 1999. That's when flat panels were first coming out and you had to buy a converter box for 1080. Anyway my rear projection was capable of 940 lines of resolution. VHS at the time were only capable of 480 and s-vhs only 720. Nobody was able to produce 1080 or even the 940 at the time.
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Post by dougc on Dec 27, 2013 16:51:31 GMT -5
BTW I use digital toshlink and have no problem with DTS. Now I can not speak about the newer formats of DTS because my Yamaha is that damn old. But after all how many discs are out there with DTS? Not very many, and what ones there are my Yammy plays them no problem via Toshlink.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2013 19:04:06 GMT -5
TV service is nothing to pay premium for a tv over, quality and compression wise. The newer high resolution formats for bluray are dts-hd, dts-ma, and dolby true hd. They only work over hdmi as toslink and digital coax are not up to par. The Emotiva unit you want will do the newer high res formats. If it was me, read up on some bluray players that are fast to load, some are horrendously slow and bothersome, as well as the high res audio support. If you get the Emo processor forget bluray preouts,the Emo unit analog inputs are not EQ'able they are pure analog path, and the gain stage will probably be superior on digital inputs than anything under 400 on a bluray player will have. If you keep your yammy and get a Bluray player, id stay with toslink for the time being and still skip the bluray preouts if it comes to being costly to have preouts, unless you get a high end bluray player with a great gain stage. I think power amps are better off without hdmi, you would have to get it to analog then gain it, which is what the processors do. Sharing a power supply might complicate noise issues, hence having separates. The good part of this scenario of how it is atm, is that you can keep using your power amp and only change a processor. We know how power sections are, find one you like and keep it . It would be a bummer to have hdmi on power amps and have to throw it all to the curb, they would be complete scrap when outdated, nobody would want them unless its for a second room. There are a select amount of 4k rentals over the network on the tv's already, but you cant sell stuff in 4k if there's never anything made for it. Upsampling is no joke either for audio or video, and with images, it really can work wonders. . I am excited as all heck for 4k gaming in the future. Gaming and porn is probably going to drive sales of these 4k devices, as porn was the leading cause of bluray to win (company favoring bluray), and gaming is a raw image and compressed so it looks super clean. Movie theaters tend to use 2k or 4k currently. There is no reason for any TV provider to give you higher quality, they gain nothing from it, people pay regardless for TV most of the time, it will have a slow growth as you've already noted. Digital tv service may be a different matter when using fiber service, not sure.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2014 18:36:49 GMT -5
UPDATE-> Getting the ML's taken care of. Will let you know when I try the Oppo BDP-105 output stage. The output stage is actually using the same opamp model as the front L and R that my audio card had that I just swapped to the OPA627 opamps, one opamp per channel as opposed to the dual opamp (faster opamp more detailed highs and faster reaction time/high frequencies are faster than low frequencies, cleaned my treble issues ive mentioned in the past, to nothing). The opamp is basically the gain stage. I am really curious if the Oppo will sound like my audio card did before the opamp swamp. After I find out I will let you know, and I am also curious on actually removing the other opamps on my audio card (other channels)and resoldering a socket on so that i dont lose my opamps in case my card goes out, and install more OPA627's. the front opamp was made to be swappable on my audio card. I would then also change the capacitors out on the audio card. All in all, I think I may have some crazy clean sound after i figure out a plan of attack and figure out my financial situation, still waiting game on that. The BDP-105 will have a cleaner circuit design and better power supply, but how much could be held back by the opamp, or is the opamp really optimised and having better input beyond what my opa627 is getting on my audio card, or is that even possible hence the higher end opamp on my audio card haha,(not sure if the opamp can have a chokepoint on quality before it, considering everything before it is probably better on the Oppo than my audio card, but leaves me curious if the opamp would hold the Oppo behind my audio card). I may even be able to add opamps over the one on the bdp and be even more golden, not sure. The BDP-105 uses the same opamp model number on all channels, whereas mine has the same default opamp for the fronts, and the rest are even more cheap. - feeling great learning this circuitry stuff a pinch. my biggest audio perception gains have been the EQ flattening with microphone firstmost, poweramps 2nd, with the opamp 3rd, no idea where to place the speakers in the list giving how well these infinity p162's sound . The EQ was way more bang for buck beyond any speakers that I have. Even the Infinity P162's sing way better with EQ applied than the Totem speakers I looked at without EQ applied, which were not cheap, 1k or 2k dont remember which. The Infinity speakers price were 80 bucks each, new model in black same exact parts, are 85 each. I am sure that the Infinity's could use some cabinet filler if they dont have it, but dont feel like redoing EQ right now, and i may end up replacing these anyways (might be a midtone cabinet resonance).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2014 23:48:16 GMT -5
While the ML's are in the shop for repair, I got familiar with the Infinity speakers enough to feel comfortable doing an A/B test as 2ch only (still EQ'd). I did an Oppo BDP-105 DAC/gain stage fed via HDMI from computer VS. the Auzentech Home Theatre HD computer audio card gain stage. A-The Oppo has the same op-amp model for all channels. (Sound is very clean, entirely smooth treble with great detail and free sounding, highs and lows are full sounding and not over emphasized. Sounded like the voice was barely part of the speaker.) B-The audio card came with the same op-amp as the Oppo but on front L/R only, the rest were really cheap. (shallow, limited sounding, dynamics were not great. Harsh and definitely unclean/scratchy treble.) (Sounded like a voice in a box, and flat. More of a one note sound, probably the capacitors had something to do with this.) The Oppo vs audio card as stock, is a big jump in detail. With the Oppo I felt the dynamics (high-low reach) increase was similar to adding a power amp, and to top that, really smooth treble that was not seeming sharp nor dull, but sweet to my ears. Since I have added the better op-amp in my audio card not long ago, I will have to compare that vs the Oppo 2ch front quality when I get the ML's back. Will let you know which I favor there as well. I believe with the increase in dynamics, that there is going to be just a small pinch of EQ fine tuning if I ever get an Oppo BDP-105. I think the BDP-105 will surpass the newer op-amp in the audio card, the capacitors are in a whole nother league of size compared to the audio card. (The computer feedback sound is not there at all with the EQ while using the Oppo gain stage, which is completely isolated from computer generated noise due to digital audio transfer over HDMI.)
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Post by dougc on Jan 7, 2014 13:09:05 GMT -5
TV service is nothing to pay premium for a tv over, quality and compression wise. The newer high resolution formats for bluray are dts-hd, dts-ma, and dolby true hd. They only work over hdmi as toslink and digital coax are not up to par. The Emotiva unit you want will do the newer high res formats. If it was me, read up on some bluray players that are fast to load, some are horrendously slow and bothersome, as well as the high res audio support. If you get the Emo processor forget bluray preouts,the Emo unit analog inputs are not EQ'able they are pure analog path, and the gain stage will probably be superior on digital inputs than anything under 400 on a bluray player will have. If you keep your yammy and get a Bluray player, id stay with toslink for the time being and still skip the bluray preouts if it comes to being costly to have preouts, unless you get a high end bluray player with a great gain stage. I think power amps are better off without hdmi, you would have to get it to analog then gain it, which is what the processors do. Sharing a power supply might complicate noise issues, hence having separates. The good part of this scenario of how it is atm, is that you can keep using your power amp and only change a processor. We know how power sections are, find one you like and keep it . It would be a bummer to have hdmi on power amps and have to throw it all to the curb, they would be complete scrap when outdated, nobody would want them unless its for a second room. There are a select amount of 4k rentals over the network on the tv's already, but you cant sell stuff in 4k if there's never anything made for it. Upsampling is no joke either for audio or video, and with images, it really can work wonders. . I am excited as all heck for 4k gaming in the future. Gaming and porn is probably going to drive sales of these 4k devices, as porn was the leading cause of bluray to win (company favoring bluray), and gaming is a raw image and compressed so it looks super clean. Movie theaters tend to use 2k or 4k currently. There is no reason for any TV provider to give you higher quality, they gain nothing from it, people pay regardless for TV most of the time, it will have a slow growth as you've already noted. Digital tv service may be a different matter when using fiber service, not sure. Tyler sometimes you take things to literal. Like the DVD section of this. I understand how it all works, but it is a added option. Some things sound better in digital others sound better in analog. It's a matter of option. Like I have said, my old Toshiba blows my Blue Ray out of the water in analog on most music (Master audio and SACD cd's, music dvd's and a lot of cd's). Now some of the newer cd's and most all movies (DVD) sound better on the Blue Ray via Toshlink. It's a matter of option. Right now I am running 2 DVD players. It would be nice to narrow it to 1. Not all recording studios are equal, it's all a matter of equiptment they use, how they use it and how compitant the recording engineer is. Some sounds better analog other digital. Now about the HDMI on the amps, I was using that as a scenario or an example, not litteral. The A/V industry is forcing us to go digital and taking more and more of our analog options away. So the HDMI on the amps, was a sarcastic example. Now for the 4K TV, I'm excited too. But it's going to be a long drawn out process. I predict 3-5 yrs, before every body is on the same page. History has proven it's self. Master audio and SACD'S took years. 1080 took yrs. 3D movies has taken yrs. 4K is going to follow suit.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2014 16:35:43 GMT -5
Very true on the literal thing Doug. Sarcasm is hard to spot in text, as well as I do also have social cue issues as a disability. Very good assessment . Absolutely agree on the audio engineering to a fine tooth comb. It seems like it would be very beneficial for you to find a preferred sound to your liking in a ADC/DAC to gain section and run everything into it then into the power amp. The toslink cable has no sound carried over it is simply data, so the Yammy is actually using the gain stage. You are comparing the Yammy gain stage to the Toshiba, and they will sound different. The Denon I had was junk on the gain stage as said before. You would highly benefit from a universal gain stage for all equipment, but then again, you may prefer a different type of sound for music as opposed to movies, and well, thats a mess . This is the whole thing I have been dinking with lately for the audio card vs the Oppo as the gain stage (fight for best 7.1 96khz audio quality from my PC.) Trying to squeeze more performance out. Searching for what I think might be the most future resistant as a universal gain stage that I love. -Tyler
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Post by dougc on Jan 8, 2014 13:17:32 GMT -5
While the ML's are in the shop for repair, I got familiar with the Infinity speakers enough to feel comfortable doing an A/B test as 2ch only (still EQ'd). I did an Oppo BDP-105 DAC/gain stage fed via HDMI from computer VS. the Auzentech Home Theatre HD computer audio card gain stage. A-The Oppo has the same op-amp model for all channels. (Sound is very clean, entirely smooth treble with great detail and free sounding, highs and lows are full sounding and not over emphasized. Sounded like the voice was barely part of the speaker.) B-The audio card came with the same op-amp as the Oppo but on front L/R only, the rest were really cheap. (shallow, limited sounding, dynamics were not great. Harsh and definitely unclean/scratchy treble.) (Sounded like a voice in a box, and flat. More of a one note sound, probably the capacitors had something to do with this.) The Oppo vs audio card as stock, is a big jump in detail. With the Oppo I felt the dynamics (high-low reach) increase was similar to adding a power amp, and to top that, really smooth treble that was not seeming sharp nor dull, but sweet to my ears. Since I have added the better op-amp in my audio card not long ago, I will have to compare that vs the Oppo 2ch front quality when I get the ML's back. Will let you know which I favor there as well. I believe with the increase in dynamics, that there is going to be just a small pinch of EQ fine tuning if I ever get an Oppo BDP-105. I think the BDP-105 will surpass the newer op-amp in the audio card, the capacitors are in a whole nother league of size compared to the audio card. (The computer feedback sound is not there at all with the EQ while using the Oppo gain stage, which is completely isolated from computer generated noise due to digital audio transfer over HDMI.) Sounds like you have your hands full as far as your gain stage quest and finding your perfect sound. Remember gain staging starts the second your audio enters the inputs and ends when it leaves the outputs. So unless ALL circuitry is EXACTLY the same as the Oppo, you are going to have a different outcome. This starts with inputs being the same, electrical leads on the circuit board ( copper vs. silver, etc). Inductors, capacitors and resistors all exactly the same. I'll give you an example. Lets just take a 3-way speaker as an example, since theres more circuitry than a 2-way. You can take 2 exact same speakers,( same box, same drivers). Now gut the crossover out of 1, and build a new one using different components. inductors ( iron vs air core), capacitors (metalized vs. film and foil VS. % of tolerance) resistors. But wiring it exactly the same as the stock crossover. Guess what your going to have a different sound. Good luck. I can go on and on for pages and still never be done when it comes to gain staging. Just remember it all starts at the recording studio. That's why I made the comment, not all recording studios are created equal. And also said some sounds better in analog, others sound better in digital.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2014 17:19:33 GMT -5
Doug your knowledge on components inside of speakers sounds epic . Analog vs digitally stored is definitely apples to oranges. When it comes to EQ as well, there is a way of doing that digitally or in an analog fashion, benefits and trade offs. I stayed with analog on the EQ so that I can keep whatever gain stage I wish to use, without chopping the signal back into digital and regaining it. No studio is exactly the same, and no studio has the same listening environment, ever, due to acoustics itself, cable issues, gear used EMI issues. We both know the EQ I did was to get as flat as to what was recorded, and not what any studio sounds like, that would be hopeless haha. I tested the Oppo as a processor by running HDMI into it, then into EQ then into power amps. It sounds much better so that is definitely a route that I hope to eventually take up as I heard what seems like a great increase in dynamics and clarity. Anywho, I wish I knew your speaker building knowledge, I have heard that there is tons of money to be saved there, and I can easily believe it after what I have pulled off with EQ alone.
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Post by dougc on Jan 8, 2014 23:09:01 GMT -5
Tyler my post earlier applies to analog or digital, it doesn't mater. I used the speaker example, because it's simple and easy to understand. These same components are used in both, digital and analog. The gain stage process is the same. Actually no its not, because on the digital side it's a lot more sensitive (less room for error).The main reason I posted this was because of your comment about the capacitors in the Oppo vs.your sound card. Believe me or not, that can make all the difference in the sound. Now if you understand the Eq principal between analog and digital. Then you should understand the Eq. that I was talking about. What goes in digital comes out digital. What goes in analog comes out analog. Its like 2 units put together in the same housing, entirely separate but sharing the same sliders. Cheers , Doug
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