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Post by goat1981 on Mar 11, 2013 17:21:00 GMT -5
Hello, everybody! Being kind of a DIY kind of guy, I am looking for a new project to work on in my "spare time" and came across these preamplifier kits. www.tubes4hifi.com/pre11.htmDoes anyone have any experience with tube preamplifiers (these or in general)? I have always been curious about them... I own an XSP-1 at the moment and am enjoying it; but I wonder if something like their SP12 or SP14 kit would sound noticeably different (better?)... What do you guys think? (I may be asking a biased crowd here...  ) Thanks for your opinions!  |
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 11, 2013 17:30:53 GMT -5
If you enjoy DIY, then this is a no-brainer! Go for it. Preamps are easy to assemble, easy to trace and diagnose if something goes wrong, and you can easily upgrade them with judicious parts substitutions.
I've always enjoyed tube preamps and have worked on many Dynaco PAS units in my day. After you put your new preamp together, please post back and let us know what you think!
Thanks - Boomzilla
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Post by pedrocols on Mar 11, 2013 17:55:48 GMT -5
I recently bought a tube preamp from the person who is a dealer for the amps from that site. The amps were the M125 mono blocks pair with some tyler acoustics and they sounded very good to the point I am contemplating getting a pair myself to build...I sold my USP-1 after I listened the preamp that is on my sig...
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Post by goat1981 on Mar 11, 2013 21:12:08 GMT -5
Cool. Thanks for the responses.
This site also has a Dynaco PAS clone that I was looking at; supposedly, it has a better power supply than the original. Being a Dynaco fan, I was interested in this...but now I am more intrigued by their "higher end" preamps.
Pedrocols, how did the sound change with your current preamp vs. the USP-1? Was it a 'night and day' difference?
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Post by pedrocols on Mar 12, 2013 1:30:18 GMT -5
Cool. Thanks for the responses. This site also has a Dynaco PAS clone that I was looking at; supposedly, it has a better power supply than the original. Being a Dynaco fan, I was interested in this...but now I am more intrigued by their "higher end" preamps. Pedrocols, how did the sound change with your current preamp vs. the USP-1? Was it a 'night and day' difference? I am not audiophile so I can't describe the change in terms of "airy or "tubey" or "deeper" if you know what I mean, but after the first track I played in my system with the tube preamp I boxed the USP-1 and put it up for sale...And to answer your first question, yes it was day and night difference...To me the USP-1 sounded thin in comparison and the mids and vocals with the tube preamp is just better... It is basically a different sound and I liked it better... |
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Mar 12, 2013 9:26:25 GMT -5
I think it's fair to say that it probably WILL sound audibly different... Tube equipment has very good transient response (but so does good solid state equipment). Tubes also usually generate audible amounts of second harmonic distortion - which adds that "fullness" or "warmth" to the sound. Tube preamps also tend to be quite a bit noisier than their solid state counterparts. The monotonic distortion curve of most tube equipment also sometimes creates a perceived increase in dynamic range. It's dangerous to generalize about how tubes sound because some tube equipment sounds quite nice, while other sounds syrupy and goopy, and has a blurry high end (sorry, but those are the only adjectives that apply). Some people who find those qualities positive in nature would probably choose different adjectives Most tube power amps have a quite low damping factor, which interacts differently with different speakers. My point is that there is a wide VARIANCE in the way tube equipment sounds. It also depends on what you listen to, and your other equipment. (I know one tube headphone amp that, with most headphones, sounds like trying to listen with your head in a bucket of Karo syrup.... but it sounds very nice with certain AKG phones that are a bit harsh otherwise.) You also need to be careful about "mods" and modified designs. A while back there were several popular mods to Dynas that included larger filter and coupling capacitors - which seems to be something that might help and wouldn't have a down-side. Except in a few of them it DID have a down side; by reducing the rolloff at very low frequencies, it caused the preamp to be unstable and to oscillate at those frequencies. Now, I'm not at all discouraging mods to tube equipment (a lot of "classic" circuits cut a lot of corners), but you REALLY need to do your homework and know what you're doing. If you (or someone you pay) does a "hack job", it is quite possible to make things worse instead of better, or even to cause serious problems. [In that one I mentioned, the result was that the preamp (with the mod) would sometimes oscillate at very low subsonic frequencies - which is very bad.] Check reviews, warranties, and all that good stuff before diving in. (If you're doing it yourself, look for a HISTORY of lots of other people doing the same mod with happy results.) Cool. Thanks for the responses. This site also has a Dynaco PAS clone that I was looking at; supposedly, it has a better power supply than the original. Being a Dynaco fan, I was interested in this...but now I am more intrigued by their "higher end" preamps. Pedrocols, how did the sound change with your current preamp vs. the USP-1? Was it a 'night and day' difference? I am not audiophile so I can't describe the change in terms of "airy or "tubey" or "deeper" if you know what I mean, but after the first track I played in my system with the tube preamp I boxed the USP-1 and put it for sale...And to answer your first question, yes it was day and night difference...To me the USP-1 sounded thin in comparison and the mids and vocals with the tube preamp is just better... It is basically a different sound and I liked it better... |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Mar 12, 2013 13:26:30 GMT -5
I've also owned Dyna, Mac, and most recently ARC tube preamps (I just sold my Dyna PAS3 & MK III's after over 40 years). They all sound different and sometimes more natural than even good solid state preamps. Currently I'm enjoying my XSP-1 very much, but I have tube power amps so I'm still in that camp. If you're a hobbiest and want to try different options then by all means give it a go, especially if you can keep your XSP-1, you'll learn more about tube qualities and they may be right for your system.
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Post by barryrobin on Mar 12, 2013 17:28:27 GMT -5
I use a pair of their ST-35 monoblocks for my Quads and I love them.  |
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Post by jmasterj on Mar 12, 2013 17:46:36 GMT -5
barryrobin,
You show off.
Mono block tube amps with Quads. Everybody ain't able. So what pre-amp are you using with them?
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Post by goat1981 on Mar 12, 2013 19:30:55 GMT -5
Thank you all very much for your comments and insight. (It's especially cool to see one of the 'high-up' and knowledgable people at Emotiva take time to chime in; thanks, KeithL -- I always enjoy reading your posts.) Curiosity has gotten the best of me, and I bought the SP-13 kit. I hope I can put it together without too much frustration... I have built several amp kits, but they have been solid state; this is my first try at tubes, and I think preamps are a significantly more picky than amps, so I am a bit nervous. I'll post pics and comparisons to the XSP-1 when it's all together (and hopefully works! ) It'll be interesting to see how the SP-13 works with the RPA-1... |
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Post by barryrobin on Mar 12, 2013 19:57:44 GMT -5
barryrobin, You show off. Mono block tube amps with Quads. Everybody ain't able. So what pre-amp are you using with them? I'm using a pre from Mapletree called an Ocal 5+. And sorry about the show-off factor... -B |
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Post by ocezam on Mar 13, 2013 14:39:00 GMT -5
I use an inexpensive Chinese tube preamp with my XPA-2 and will continue to use it with my XPA-1L's when they arrive. I believe a good tube preamp paired with a strong solid state power amp provides a very solid foundation for a sublime sounding stereo rig.
I bought the pre knowing that someday (sooner than later) I'd upgrade to a "better" tube preamp that I'd keep for some years. This Chinese preamp is actually very good. I believe I'll hang on to it for a while. In the meantime, I've got my ears finely tuned for any rumors regarding Emotiva tube products that were teased in the last Podcast.
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Post by jmasterj on Mar 16, 2013 12:36:09 GMT -5
barryrobbin,
Don't be sorry about the show-off factor. You have nice equipment in MHO. You should be proud.
I have a lot of questions about your equipment, but I didn't want to hi-jack the pre-amp thread. So I've sent you a personal message.
I look forward to hearing back from you. J
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Post by milsap195 on May 17, 2014 16:32:45 GMT -5
Thank you all very much for your comments and insight. (It's especially cool to see one of the 'high-up' and knowledgable people at Emotiva take time to chime in; thanks, KeithL -- I always enjoy reading your posts.) Curiosity has gotten the best of me, and I bought the SP-13 kit. I hope I can put it together without too much frustration... I have built several amp kits, but they have been solid state; this is my first try at tubes, and I think preamps are a significantly more picky than amps, so I am a bit nervous. I'll post pics and comparisons to the XSP-1 when it's all together (and hopefully works! ) It'll be interesting to see how the SP-13 works with the RPA-1... I see that you have the 13 in you sig. Can you give us some impressions? The sp14 is calling to me. |
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Post by audiobill on May 17, 2014 16:34:04 GMT -5
Me too!!
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Post by audiobill on May 17, 2014 16:58:52 GMT -5
Actually, it's funny you mention this.....I've been delighting in my Bob Latino M125's all day, while reading up on the SP 14.......four 6sn7 tubes in a a modified Aikido design for complete kit less than $1k is just outstanding..........
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Post by lionear on May 17, 2014 20:09:09 GMT -5
If you're thinking of tube kits, you might want to also check out Hagerman Audio Labs: www.haglabs.com |
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Post by ocezam on May 17, 2014 20:30:05 GMT -5
Thank you all very much for your comments and insight. (It's especially cool to see one of the 'high-up' and knowledgable people at Emotiva take time to chime in; thanks, KeithL -- I always enjoy reading your posts.) Curiosity has gotten the best of me, and I bought the SP-13 kit. I hope I can put it together without too much frustration... I have built several amp kits, but they have been solid state; this is my first try at tubes, and I think preamps are a significantly more picky than amps, so I am a bit nervous. I'll post pics and comparisons to the XSP-1 when it's all together (and hopefully works! ) It'll be interesting to see how the SP-13 works with the RPA-1... I see that you have the 13 in you sig. Can you give us some impressions? The sp14 is calling to me. Do you realize you are replying to a thread nearly 1 1/2 years old? |
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Post by milsap195 on May 17, 2014 21:57:49 GMT -5
Yes I do, I meant to quote goat, probably should have sent him a pm.
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