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Post by ntculenuf on Apr 4, 2013 10:43:37 GMT -5
First and foremost hello, my name is Chris and I am at most times an audioholic. I heard of Emotiva a few years back on the Polk Audio forum and was interested. fast forward a few years later and audio back in the budget I am and have been really looking at Emotiva amps (specifically the XPA-5). For years I have been using an Adcom GFA 7500 for power. I had been really pleased with having an external amp, the additional power and headroom for speakers. As most people that spend to much time thinking about their systems I wanted to more out of my system. A bigger amp was always on the brain. So a few months back I finally updated my system with a new AVR Onkyo TX-NR 3010 (previous Pioneer VSX-56txi). Knowing that the AVR only would be less wattage output but being new technology I pulled the Adcom.1. it is old 2. the onkyo is rated 140w 2 channels driven. Overall I have been happy with the new AVR. Honestly after hook up it was like when I heard true digital 5.1 many years back. The detail, separation. I have been very happy. Ihave watched a ridiculous amount of movies and finding my love of SACD/DVD-A again. Well here I am trolling this site and several others reading about customer experience with emotiva and ready to make the plunge soon (very soon). My Current 5.1 setup: Onkyo TX-NR 3010 OPPO BDP-83 (update after amp) Sony BDP-s470 3D only Directv Defintive Technology BP7001sc L&R Definitive Technology CLR3000 center Polk Audio RT800i surrounds Definitive Technology Supercube 1lfe Monster Power htps 7000ss Monster Power AVS 2000ss Mitsubishi wd65837 I feel that the XPA-5 will be a great compliment to my system, plenty of power for now and any changes I should make for years to come. I did look at the XPR-5 for a minute but for me that would be overkill and pricey lol. I have looked at several different configurations for example scaling back getting a 3 channel and using the AVR for surrounds. But I am confident the XPA-5 would be my best bang for the buck. Beside I know how I think and I would constantly 2nd guess not amping my rears  That and I don't have room for the AVR and 2 amps. Couple of concerns that I have and read; hum from amp (seems isolated) I have an open rack but will only have 1/4in above the amp (wide open front,back and sides) I am considering plugging the amp directly into the AVS 2000ss since the xpa has built in protection How long is the power cord? On the plus side I like the 30 day trial and the 5 year warranty. Although I don't see myself returning the XPA at all For those of you that have read through my long post thank you for your time. I look forward to any thoughts, recommendations and being part of the EMO family. I still have the Adcom sitting on the floor of my office staring at me everyday. Tried selling it a few times but the buyer drops out. It is looking to be added to my other equipment that i seem to hang on to lol....HINT HINT |
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Post by stads77 on Apr 4, 2013 10:56:18 GMT -5
I have had both the xpa-5 and the adcom 7500. Honestly, I love Emotiva, but I would not expect a difference between the two amps. I found the adcom 7500 to be an amazing amp for the used market price ($400ish). The main reason I sold it was because it looks horrendous like most adcom stuff, and I wanted my gear to match.
This is just my opinion of course.
If your listening room is huge, then I would seriously consider the xpr-5 as a "real" upgrade over the GFA-7500.
Glad to have you on the forum, enjoy the journey!
Ben
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Post by ntculenuf on Apr 4, 2013 11:10:56 GMT -5
this is how i ended up with the onkyo 3010 over the 818 lol The extra 1100 for the xpr is hard to swallow right now.
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on Apr 4, 2013 11:44:41 GMT -5
Hi, and welcome to the Lounge! Your XPA-5 should be fine in your rack. I had mine like that for about a year and never had an issue with it. It's built well enough to handle the heat that it generates.
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Post by garbulky on Apr 4, 2013 11:48:41 GMT -5
You already have a powerful amp. The XPA-5 is a great value and performer but like I said, would it be better than an adcom to justify the price? I would personally upgrade the power to my fronts first. The XPA-5 does use unused power toward whereever its needed (IE pushes more than rated power into whichever needed channels). But maybe an XPA-3 and an xpa-2 would give you just a bit more?
Or two XPA-1 L's and an XPA-3? This would allow you to get into monoblocks and someday even go fully balanced (for the fronts).
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Post by garbulky on Apr 4, 2013 11:53:16 GMT -5
btw, I'm not familiar with the type of conditioner the monster avs is. But I would likely bypass it and go straight to the wall for the amps.
From stereophile:
" When I first began auditioning the AVS 2000, I discovered that it had more than enough capacity to handle the current demands of my entire system—even at whopping volume levels with massive transients, I never went much above 11 amps. However, while I loved the enhanced depth of midrange resolution and the aqueous clarity I achieved throughout the entire system, I ended up preferring the overall effect the AVS 2000 had on my front-end gear to that conferred on my power amp.
High-current demands are a function of the load. When there are huge bass transients in the music and the amplifier wants current, it doesn't politely ask for it, but demands massive, instantaneous bursts of power. With the power amplifiers plugged into the AVS 2000, I experienced what I would characterize as a subtle compression effect. Despite impressive improvements in midrange detail and resolution, I found I wasn't getting as much of a sense of the frequency extremes, particularly heft and body in the deep bass, as I did when the amplifiers were plugged directly into the wall current—and that without this foundation of extra-deep bass, there was something lacking in the depth and dimensionality of the soundstage. " [/u]
Ie: very very quick dynamic swings demand very quick power. While the monster does a whole lot of power, it may be limited by the speed at which it's supplies can deliver it.
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Post by Gary Cook on Apr 4, 2013 17:57:48 GMT -5
Please excuse the brutal honesty.
Lose the power conditioners, unless your area has highly fluctuating voltages they are more of a hinderance than a help. Modern amps with decent power supplies just don't need them.
Lose the Adcom, my reading is that despite its adequate performance you have decided it is visually not suitable.
An XPR-5 is beyond your current budget and you only have space for one power amp which rules out combinations of XPA-2, XPA-3 or XPA-1's.
This then leads me to only one logical conclusion, that an XPA-5 would be a more than suitable addition. It has at least equal if not superior performance to the Adcom and if you are truly happy with that power level then I see no need to increase above it. Keeping in mind that XPA-5's are highly regarded second hand and so when/if you ever decided to upgrade you wouldn't lose much value.
Cheers
Gary
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2013 22:59:00 GMT -5
Welcome to the Lounge Chris!
I'm not 100% clear about your upgrades. You replaced the Adcom GFA-7500 and the Pioneer VSV-56txi with the Onkyo TX-NR 3010 and are no longer using the Adcom amp? The Adcom puts out 150 watts into 8 ohms with 5 channels operating. The Onkyo put out 122 watts into 8 ohms with 5 channels operating (per HT Mag). The Adcom is clearly a superior amp and is far more stable into 4 and 6 ohms. The Onkyo lists for about $2300.
Please, no offense intended here, but you seem to have no problem putting out money for speakers and a pre-pro, but seem to shy away from buying an amp that will last you for years and other speakers than the Def Techs. From my reading the Def Techs are more in the 6 ohm impedance range and also can handle lots more power than the sensitivity spec implies. Since you are now considering buying a separate amp why didn't you buy a separate pre-pro from Onkyo, etc? Just curious, because now you are going to bypass the amp? A two channel amp for channels 6 & 7 is very cheap at Emo.
Def Tech specifies up to 600 watts of power for the BP 7001 and 1000 watts for the BP-7000. They are both spec'd at 92dB's sensitivity, although I think that is most likely exaggerated. Those 12" and 14" drivers take a ton of power to drive.
IMO, you should look again at the XPR-5 versus the XPA-5 (which I own). The XPR-5 is only $1200 more when not on sale. That is about what you spent for your center channel.
What I'm trying to point out here is that you can easily use the extra power for those Def Tech's and this amp will be in your rack long after you upgrade the pre-pro and most other gear. The XPR-5 is not overkill for your speakers. Def Tech doesn't recommend up to 600 watts to sell power amps.
;D
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Post by creimes on Apr 4, 2013 23:14:54 GMT -5
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Post by ntculenuf on Apr 5, 2013 4:30:31 GMT -5
Please excuse the brutal honesty. Lose the power conditioners, unless your area has highly fluctuating voltages they are more of a hinderance than a help. Modern amps with decent power supplies just don't need them. Lose the Adcom, my reading is that despite its adequate performance you have decided it is visually not suitable. An XPR-5 is beyond your current budget and you only have space for one power amp which rules out combinations of XPA-2, XPA-3 or XPA-1's. This then leads me to only one logical conclusion, that an XPA-5 would be a more than suitable addition. It has at least equal if not superior performance to the Adcom and if you are truly happy with that power level then I see no need to increase above it. Keeping in mind that XPA-5's are highly regarded second hand and so when/if you ever decided to upgrade you wouldn't lose much value. Cheers Gary I live in phoenix and the power is horrible. My AVS 2000 is consistently +1-3 volts at idle and I have seen up to +9 in the summer when ac units are running. Our monsoons here have done some nasty things to equipment. been to a few customers houses to replace equipment that has taken some hits from voltage spikes. |
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Post by ntculenuf on Apr 5, 2013 5:11:58 GMT -5
Welcome to the Lounge Chris! I'm not 100% clear about your upgrades. You replaced the Adcom GFA-7500 and the Pioneer VSV-56txi with the Onkyo TX-NR 3010 and are no longer using the Adcom amp? The Adcom puts out 150 watts into 8 ohms with 5 channels operating. The Onkyo put out 122 watts into 8 ohms with 5 channels operating (per HT Mag). The Adcom is clearly a superior amp and is far more stable into 4 and 6 ohms. The Onkyo lists for about $2300. Please, no offense intended here, but you seem to have no problem putting out money for speakers and a pre-pro, but seem to shy away from buying an amp that will last you for years and other speakers than the Def Techs. From my reading the Def Techs are more in the 6 ohm impedance range and also can handle lots more power than the sensitivity spec implies. Since you are now considering buying a separate amp why didn't you buy a separate pre-pro from Onkyo, etc? Just curious, because now you are going to bypass the amp? A two channel amp for channels 6 & 7 is very cheap at Emo. Def Tech specifies up to 600 watts of power for the BP 7001 and 1000 watts for the BP-7000. They are both spec'd at 92dB's sensitivity, although I think that is most likely exaggerated. Those 12" and 14" drivers take a ton of power to drive. IMO, you should look again at the XPR-5 versus the XPA-5 (which I own). The XPR-5 is only $1200 more when not on sale. That is about what you spent for your center channel. What I'm trying to point out here is that you can easily use the extra power for those Def Tech's and this amp will be in your rack long after you upgrade the pre-pro and most other gear. The XPR-5 is not overkill for your speakers. Def Tech doesn't recommend up to 600 watts to sell power amps. ;D well I have not paid retail for any of my equipment except the OPPO. I have always worked in the industry or knew somebody, so that always helps ( I won the monster stuff, and the supercube sub while working at Ultimate Electronics). It took me 7 years to get my center channel after I bought the 7001's. The pioneer was definitely due for an upgrade. I had had that since 2004 and it had no HDMI. I was tired of having to have an HDMI switch and audio sync issues plus it was just time. As far as not hooking up the Adcom again there were a couple thoughts, I have had it since 2005, I was curious about the sound of the Onkyo, the Onkyo has no 12 volt trigger for main zone but I figured out how to get around that, I have always had a hiss in my speakers from the Adcom (only noticeable when right up on the speaker). I have thought about putting the Adcom back in play but I guess I just want something new. When I was reading about the Onkyo before I purchased it I was seeing people talk about the Emotivas. Overkill was the wrong word, The price right now is more of the issue. You are correct the XPR-5 would be the better choice. After I looked at the specs of my speakers The XPR was my choice but the cost ( and I got the buying bug). I think what I will do is be patient, keep an eye on the price of the XPR. How often does Emotiva have sales? I think today while the wife is at work I might just load the Adcom back in. It has been a few months and quite a few movies since i heard it. |
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Post by audiohead on Apr 5, 2013 5:12:25 GMT -5
Welcome Bro!I have been enjoying this hobby for a long time and finding Emotiva has just made it more fun.Plus I just got back into Vinyl and lovin it totally!You have a nice set up adding a EMO amp to it will give you more enjoyment.I have the XPA-5 and love that amp.By the way Adcom amps are really good amps too so its a win win thing for ya best of luck Bro.  |
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Post by ntculenuf on Apr 5, 2013 5:16:14 GMT -5
Think I will be patient and wait for a sale or when I pull together a few extra dollars. Thanks for the link. Being only a few hundred dollars difference I think I would feel better buying new from Emotiva. |
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Post by ntculenuf on Apr 5, 2013 5:22:08 GMT -5
just looked at the specs on the XPR and it won't fit in my rack lol. so now if I am patient for the XPR a new rack will be needed ha ha. This hobby just never ends. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2013 7:19:04 GMT -5
Garbulky's idea for the XPA-2 and the XPA-3 is nice especially when they go on sale. ;D
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Post by ntculenuf on Apr 7, 2013 20:44:11 GMT -5
after the advice i have decided to be patient for the XPR-5. I will wait for the mother of all sales and pick one up I installed the adcom gfa-7500 back in the system and remember why i had acquired it in the first place all those years ago. My system just sounds more awake with an external amp over just the avr. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2013 0:39:00 GMT -5
Just a brief mention about the Adcom GFA-7500. I have had one of my 7500's going on about 15 years now, and even back then I bought it used. It has been pushing 4ohm Polk Lsi's for about 10 of those years. Tons of headroom and deafening clean power. Lots of fidelity. Never a failure. Yeah, they're ugly like tanks, but I think they are built like'm too.
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Post by ocezam on Apr 9, 2013 8:55:27 GMT -5
OK. I'm going to go completely off topic here...
If you're wanting to get a more dynamic and immersive movie experience, do nothing about your amps right now. Take advantage of the KILLER Receiver you bought and upgrade to 9.1 or 11.1 sound. I've got the predecessor to your receiver, the 3009, and have owned Yamaha AVR's for a decade before that and always used their "presence" channels.
Unless you have a very small, skinny, home theater, the addition of height and wide channels will be the single biggest thing you can do to improve the sound in your HT. Heights and wides add much more sound enjoyment than rear speakers IMHO. There are two digital sound processors that can make 9.1 and 11.1 sound. DTS NeoX and Audyssey DSX. Your receiver has both, as does mine.
Do some reading on this. It makes a huge difference.
...
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Post by ntculenuf on Apr 9, 2013 11:22:17 GMT -5
ocezam I don't have the room for doing 9.1 or 11.1 with the current location of my system. I am also currently using the powered zone 2.
On a side note i just got an offer on my Adcom after I put it back in my setup. now how bad do I want to look at some thing new. sell it and purchase the xpa 5 for a new amp design and a little more power or keep the tank?
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Post by ocezam on Apr 10, 2013 8:17:36 GMT -5
ocezam I don't have the room for doing 9.1 or 11.1 with the current location of my system. I am also currently using the powered zone 2. Pity. 9.1 and 11.1 are awesome! On a side note i just got an offer on my Adcom after I put it back in my setup. now how bad do I want to look at some thing new. sell it and purchase the xpa 5 for a new amp design and a little more power or keep the tank? Your call. I'd probably go for the Emotiva on looks alone. I've never owned any Adcom because I thought they were butt ugly. ... |
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That and I don't have room for the AVR and 2 amps.
