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Post by Dark Ranger on Apr 24, 2013 18:29:08 GMT -5
Whoops! Yeah, steak = stake.
I obviously had dinner on my mind. ;D
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Post by jdubs on Apr 24, 2013 20:51:59 GMT -5
Good to see you took the plunge with the RDA. As some know (and the OP does) I have the RDA M1000mkII (550w and 1100 at 4 ohm) run off an XDA-2. Very small, spartan system with a HUGE sound. I thought I would return the RDA amps and do Emos, but I decided they were keepers as well. I did go with black, and they glow pretty low. It is cool seeing the blue (emo) and red (rda) power on in a dark room. It was my experience, as well, that I noticed an immediate difference when I plugged mine in. They sweetened after running them in after about a week of non-stop play. I played "Territories" by Rush at an extremely loud volume and its about as close to live as I've been (saw Rush in September). I also noticed that they are very alive at low volumes. Very impressive little amps. Attachments:
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Post by creimes on Apr 24, 2013 23:31:12 GMT -5
I just find it hard to take a company seriously that sells cable lifters.....like really because lifting my cables off my berber carpet is gonna open up the soundstage or whatever.....
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Post by GreenKiwi on Apr 25, 2013 0:21:15 GMT -5
Maybe you can just look at it as a way for them to subsidize the price of their amps.  |
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Post by ocezam on Apr 25, 2013 7:12:00 GMT -5
I just find it hard to take a company seriously that sells cable lifters.....like really because lifting my cables off my berber carpet is gonna open up the soundstage or whatever..... I hear you. That one bothered me for a while also. Maybe you can just look at it as a way for them to subsidize the price of their amps. That's a good way to see it. In the end, these amps are simply too good to ignore. ... |
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Post by TUGA Audiophile on Apr 25, 2013 8:26:08 GMT -5
I just want to say the following:
Class D technology was created for car-audio more precisely to the competition in SPL.
Why?
Because of increased power demand (SPL) and warming problem.
Technology A/B for the same power creates a lot of heat and a car that is dangerous.
Class D amplifiers have been made to solve the problem of heating and
supplying power to the car audio subwoofers.
-OK?
Check carefully if the sound quality in competition there are no one to be champion with class D amplifiers as well as SPL not anyone to be champion with class A or A/B.
Last years the brand champions are DLS, MOSCONI, AUDISOM, PHENIX GOLD, JL AUDIO and THE BEST IS GROUND ZERO AUDIO and BRAX...
-OK?
I study these things ... I LOVE these things this is my addiction!
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Post by creimes on Apr 25, 2013 12:26:10 GMT -5
Maybe you can just look at it as a way for them to subsidize the price of their amps. They shouldn't need to subsidize any costs for their amp prices, while not totally crazy priced I feel they are a little high for a 9lb box, and yes I know its's more then just the weight of the product but they use a lot less parts inside so price seems a little high to me, IMO anyways Chad |
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Post by GreenKiwi on Apr 25, 2013 15:36:06 GMT -5
I imagine the price is right about where it needs to be. Remember one is paying for the IP that went into designing these things too. I'm guessing the ICE modules are not particularly cheap.
And the prices for these modules seem to run about the same price as other ID solutions.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2013 17:55:58 GMT -5
Maybe you can just look at it as a way for them to subsidize the price of their amps. They shouldn't need to subsidize any costs for their amp prices, while not totally crazy priced I feel they are a little high for a 9lb box, and yes I know its's more then just the weight of the product but they use a lot less parts inside so price seems a little high to me, IMO anyways Chad His price is not that bad. If you look into DIY to build the same thing with the same module, it's over $500..... i also know for a fact he sells cable lifters only because they sell and customers wanted them. I actually asked him that question when I bought my 2 Red Dragons. |
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Post by garbulky on Apr 25, 2013 17:58:32 GMT -5
At the current stage of the market the commanding factor is sound quality and power. So therefore if the amps can match the sound of amps that cost that much (albeit with more stuff) then that's what the going rate is. Soon when quality class D takes off the prices would likely come down but not til then IMO.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2013 18:07:24 GMT -5
I just want to say the following: Class D technology was created for car-audio more precisely to the competition in SPL. Why? Because of increased power demand (SPL) and warming problem. Technology A/B for the same power creates a lot of heat and a car that is dangerous. Class D amplifiers have been made to solve the problem of heating and supplying power to the car audio subwoofers. -OK? Check carefully if the sound quality in competition there are no one to be champion with class D amplifiers as well as SPL not anyone to be champion with class A or A/B. Last years the brand champions are DLS, MOSCONI, AUDISOM, PHENIX GOLD, JL AUDIO and THE BEST IS GROUND ZERO AUDIO... -OK? I study these things ... I LOVE these things this is my addiction! To be fair, I was into dB comps for 8 years. Class D pretty much won everything at the time , as it does extremely well today. You're crazy if you think that class D doesn't win anything vs class A/B. Thats a false statement. JL, kicker, phoenix gold, pioneer, rockford etc, as well as countless others are OEM'd and are 95% the same internals. RE, USamps etc are what wins in my area's. As well as the Kicker Warhorse, it's Kicker own design and class D AND 10,000 watts. |
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Post by ocezam on Apr 26, 2013 7:24:40 GMT -5
They shouldn't need to subsidize any costs for their amp prices, while not totally crazy priced I feel they are a little high for a 9lb box, and yes I know its's more then just the weight of the product but they use a lot less parts inside so price seems a little high to me, IMO anyways Chad Sour grapes. Jeez pal, Have you ever heard one? Apparently in your world, electronics should be sold by the pound? Give me an F'n break! Do some internet searches for Iceamps and Ncore amps. You won't find a bad review from anyone who owns one. I paid $50 dollars less than I would did for the XPA-1L's. Best amps I've ever had in my home! Heck, there's another member here who got rid of a pair of XPA-1's because his Ncores blew them away. ... |
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Post by TUGA Audiophile on Apr 26, 2013 7:51:08 GMT -5
I just want to say the following: Class D technology was created for car-audio more precisely to the competition in SPL. Why? Because of increased power demand (SPL) and warming problem. Technology A/B for the same power creates a lot of heat and a car that is dangerous. Class D amplifiers have been made to solve the problem of heating and supplying power to the car audio subwoofers. -OK? Check carefully if the sound quality in competition there are no one to be champion with class D amplifiers as well as SPL not anyone to be champion with class A or A/B. Last years the brand champions are DLS, MOSCONI, AUDISOM, PHENIX GOLD, JL AUDIO and THE BEST IS GROUND ZERO AUDIO and BRAX... -OK? I study these things ... I LOVE these things this is my addiction! To be fair, I was into dB comps for 8 years. Class D pretty much won everything at the time , as it does extremely well today. You're crazy if you think that class D doesn't win anything vs class A/B. Thats a false statement. JL, kicker, phoenix gold, pioneer, rockford etc, as well as countless others are OEM'd and are 95% the same internals. RE, USamps etc are what wins in my area's. As well as the Kicker Warhorse, it's Kicker own design and class D AND 10,000 watts. DB and SPL are the same thing. I talk about sound quality. Sound quality is the ability to present a stage who listens. DB and SPL amp's is for a party... These brands are for those who like DB and SPL not for sound quality. www.emmanet.info/iasca.com/Enjoy... |
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Post by TUGA Audiophile on Apr 26, 2013 8:05:55 GMT -5
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Post by jdubs on Apr 26, 2013 8:26:57 GMT -5
FWIW, it seems like a ton of people hate on these things without having heard them. I invite any member here into my home to take a listen; just PM me. Of course, Central PA isn't the most accessible but if you are around the offer stands.
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Apr 26, 2013 9:38:39 GMT -5
The term dB "decibel" by itself refers to a ratio between two things; when you say something is +3 dB, you are saying that it is 3 dB more than something else. (In audio power , +3 dB is twice the power and +10 dB is ten times the power - which is about twice as loud.) dB are logarithmic, so 10 dB is 10x the power and 20 dB is 100x the power. Since a dB is a ratio, something like "22 dB" does NOT refer to any particular number; it is a ratio BETWEEN two numbers; something has to be 22 dB LOUDER OR QUIETER THAN SOMETHING ELSE. "dB SPL" is a very specific measurement, and refers to the sound pressure level as a ratio, but compared to a reference standard zero level.... so, for example, 118 dB SPL is an actual measurement, because it is +118 dB louder than an established standard "0 dB", and should always mean the same loudness. To be fair, I was into dB comps for 8 years. Class D pretty much won everything at the time , as it does extremely well today. You're crazy if you think that class D doesn't win anything vs class A/B. Thats a false statement. JL, kicker, phoenix gold, pioneer, rockford etc, as well as countless others are OEM'd and are 95% the same internals. RE, USamps etc are what wins in my area's. As well as the Kicker Warhorse, it's Kicker own design and class D AND 10,000 watts. DB and SPL are the same thing. I talk about sound quality. Sound quality is the ability to present a stage who listens. DB and SPL amp's is for a party... These brands are for those who like DB and SPL not for sound quality. www.emmanet.info/iasca.com/Enjoy... |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Apr 26, 2013 10:26:43 GMT -5
Class D amplifiers are VERY efficient (95% is not uncommon). In a car, where power is at a premium, this is a very clear and important advantage. They are also usually a lot smaller than Class A/B amps (because they are very efficient, they don't generate much heat, so they need a lot less heat sinks, and the circuitry itself is smaller). Depending on how you feel, being small and light ranges somewhere between being an advantage and not mattering; I can't see any way in which it would be a negative that they're smaller and lighter  Just to be clear, there is also no technical reason why a Class D amp CAN'T sound just as good as a Class A/B amp. (Well, to be honest, it takes a bit more design work to get there...). However, in the past, since the main priority was efficiency, many Class D amps in fact sounded rather bad. The Hypex and nCore modules are "pre-fab" modules, which require a minimum of external parts to run, which makes them great for DIYers and small companies who want to minimize their part in the design and production process (you put them in a nice case and you're done). This means, however, that you (the company) don't have much control over how they sound; there's nothing much to tweak or optimize. We've auditioned them and, to be honest, we felt that they sounded pretty good - but not as good as our best Class A/B amps. (Although we are rather fans of them in pro equipment - where size, weight, and ruggedness ARE important factors.) I WILL also urge you to keep the "wow factor" in perspective... Yes, it IS cool to have a pair of Hypex modules with as much power as an XPA-2, but that you can carry around in your backpack (without getting a hernia); just don't confuse the fact that the technology is so cool with the way they sound. Unless the small size and light weight are important to you, then, from an audiophile point of view, they shouldn't "get extra points" because of that. Close your eyes so you can't see that they're "cute" and listen to how they sound. I just want to say the following: Class D technology was created for car-audio more precisely to the competition in SPL. Why? Because of increased power demand (SPL) and warming problem. Technology A/B for the same power creates a lot of heat and a car that is dangerous. Class D amplifiers have been made to solve the problem of heating and supplying power to the car audio subwoofers. -OK? Check carefully if the sound quality in competition there are no one to be champion with class D amplifiers as well as SPL not anyone to be champion with class A or A/B. Last years the brand champions are DLS, MOSCONI, AUDISOM, PHENIX GOLD, JL AUDIO and THE BEST IS GROUND ZERO AUDIO and BRAX... -OK? I study these things ... I LOVE these things this is my addiction! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2013 10:37:33 GMT -5
I hear ya, Keith, and agree. However, I also think it would be very cool for Emo to produce a line of Class D amps, maybe as a lower power product to replace something like the Mini-X.
Or perhaps as a line of "portable" amps that would allow us to get our Emo on while on the go. It would be very cool to have a high-quality Emo boombox comprised of a 25 watt amp built-in to some AirMotive 2s (new product) with a USB and/or 3/8" input to allow us to jack our phones or portable music players into 'em. Maybe even employ Bluetooth to allow for a wireless connection to the second speaker. If Emo could launch something like this for $250 or less, they'd have a winner on their hands, methinks!
-RW-
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Post by creimes on Apr 26, 2013 12:31:21 GMT -5
They shouldn't need to subsidize any costs for their amp prices, while not totally crazy priced I feel they are a little high for a 9lb box, and yes I know its's more then just the weight of the product but they use a lot less parts inside so price seems a little high to me, IMO anyways Chad Sour grapes. Jeez pal, Have you ever heard one? Apparently in your world, electronics should be sold by the pound? Give me an F'n break! Do some internet searches for Iceamps and Ncore amps. You won't find a bad review from anyone who owns one. I paid $50 dollars less than I would did for the XPA-1L's. Best amps I've ever had in my home! Heck, there's another member here who got rid of a pair of XPA-1's because his Ncores blew them away. ... Your right I have never heard those amps and trust me I am not saying they are crap or bad sounding amps by any means, heck after your review I even thought about trying a pair as you sparked my curiosity but 2 of them in the cart is $1698 which I just can't do right now...unless I sell my newly acuired UPA-200 which I just got going for my outdoor speakers but then I'm still roughly at about $1300 and I would have to dip into my XMC-1 fund.... Srry for wording it badly Chad |
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Post by TUGA Audiophile on Apr 26, 2013 14:04:34 GMT -5
Class D amplifiers are VERY efficient (95% is not uncommon). In a car, where power is at a premium, this is a very clear and important advantage. They are also usually a lot smaller than Class A/B amps (because they are very efficient, they don't generate much heat, so they need a lot less heat sinks, and the circuitry itself is smaller). Depending on how you feel, being small and light ranges somewhere between being an advantage and not mattering; I can't see any way in which it would be a negative that they're smaller and lighter Just to be clear, there is also no technical reason why a Class D amp CAN'T sound just as good as a Class A/B amp. (Well, to be honest, it takes a bit more design work to get there...). However, in the past, since the main priority was efficiency, many Class D amps in fact sounded rather bad. The Hypex and nCore modules are "pre-fab" modules, which require a minimum of external parts to run, which makes them great for DIYers and small companies who want to minimize their part in the design and production process ( you put them in a nice case and you're done). This means, however, that you (the company) don't have much control over how they sound; there's nothing much to tweak or optimize. We've auditioned them and, to be honest, we felt that they sounded pretty good - but not as good as our best Class A/B amps. (Although we are rather fans of them in pro equipment - where size, weight, and ruggedness ARE important factors.) I WILL also urge you to keep the "wow factor" in perspective... Yes, it IS cool to have a pair of Hypex modules with as much power as an XPA-2, but that you can carry around in your backpack (without getting a hernia); just don't confuse the fact that the technology is so cool with the way they sound. Unless the small size and light weight are important to you, then, from an audiophile point of view, they shouldn't "get extra points" because of that. Close your eyes so you can't see that they're "cute" and listen to how they sound. Thank KEITH this is what I mean but are missing one thing, I never said that they played poorly just never win anything in sound quality, understands me. I am a SMART SHOPPER, i do not waste my money I invest in something of value. - But this is only tastes ... it all started with a bad comparison... with XPA-100 and this RED DRAGON  ;D  |
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