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Post by teaman on Dec 30, 2013 14:48:44 GMT -5
The more time I spend with this ERC-3 the more I like it. What a great sound stage and welcoming atmosphere it sets.
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Post by routlaw on Dec 30, 2013 16:43:13 GMT -5
Anyone here using an Oppo 105/103 as a transport to the Stealth DC-1 and if so how does it compare to this stand alone cd player ERC-3. I have just recently ordered the DC-1, (still in transit) which if it does what others have stated might end up replacing my Eastern Electric DAC Plus using the same chipset as the Oppo 105. Most of my music listening is done via a Mac Mini and Audirvana Plus as the juke box. But on occasion will also spin some SACD's and DVD-A, and Blu Ray audio disc on my Oppo 103. Recently I have become less enchanted with the computer based music server situation though its not worth going into for now.
The point is I am considering spinning disc again going forward. So just wondered how the Oppo as a transport into the DC-1 compares with the all in one component of the ERC-3. Perhaps its too early to tell but would love to hear from those experienced in the comparisons.
Many thanks
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Post by uthiker on Dec 31, 2013 8:40:34 GMT -5
Hi... I'm looking for opinions on what would sound better....1- My ERC 2 into a DC 1 into my UMC 2 into the amps?....2-The ERC 3 into the UMC 2 into the amps? I would like to purchase one of these during the sale ( ERC 3 or DC 1 ).Any help would be much appreciated... Thanks & Happy NEW YEAR to everyone.
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Dec 31, 2013 12:44:05 GMT -5
If it were me, I go for the DC-1. The sound should nbe very similar between your two options, but the DC-1 gives you more digital conversion options via it USB, optical, etc. inputs.
Mark
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Post by uthiker on Dec 31, 2013 14:36:55 GMT -5
Thanks ..I'm leaning in that direction as I can run the oppo 103 into that as well and I like the slot load of the ERC 2 as well as its looks.
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 31, 2013 22:17:45 GMT -5
To me the answers lies in the ratio between listening to CD's and listening to other digital sources. If, like me, you have a high % of listening to CD's then the ERC-3 is just flat out superb. Whereas if a high % of your listening is to other digital sources then a DC-1 is a logical choice.
Happy New Year
Gary
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Post by uthiker on Dec 31, 2013 23:17:56 GMT -5
Thanks I ordered the DC 1 I'm hoping My ERC 2 will sound as good as the ERC 3. Plus give me some advantages in other areas as well.
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Post by HunTer on Jan 2, 2014 14:33:09 GMT -5
Thanks guys. That is the real point with Emotiva… you CAN afford to own gear that competes with ultra high end, without taking out a second mortgage!  +1 !!!  |
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 2, 2014 14:33:16 GMT -5
Unfortunately, the ERC-2 did not play (all) SACD redbook layers. In my two experiences with the ERC-2 it never once read any of the SACDs that I brought to audition. Others have said that their's plays SACD redbook layers; but they were listening to different titles than I was trying. And, yes, all my titles that I tried to audition were "hybrid" SACDs and play absolutely fine in my car, bedroom (Sony DVD/CD), and theater (ERC-1) systems. I'm not sure what happened with the ERC-2 and SACD redbook layer playback and it's water under the bridge as it's no longer offered (and most didn't care if it played the SACD redbook layer), but I'm glad to see that it's been addressed with the new ERC-3. Got it. The old player didn't and so since this ones does they mention it. Makes sense. |
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 2, 2014 15:12:02 GMT -5
Here is why I chose an ERC-3 over a 105 (I tested one for more than a month). For stereo listing the ERC-3 is just flat out better, sound stage, attack, decay, male and female vocals, instruments and all are more natural, location locked and dimensional. Well considering I've not heard either in a side by side sort of comparo, I can neither back nor deny what you say. What I can say is that I'm sure there are differences one way or another. What I can also say is I believe those differences will have a tendency to be subjective. I think your claim of "flat out better," which to me translates into a sort of "kicks it's *bleep*" sort of statement, might, and I said might, be a little over dramatic. Again, I'm not saying the EMC-3 doesn't sound better. I mean, how can I know not hearing it? I can't. Being that it was made by Emotiva to do just one thing well tells me it probably does that one thing better, subjective as that may be. I probably have 50 or so SACD's and DVD-As, so it is a concern to me. I will not be using this sort of set up because I'm not a big believer in DIY equalization (or digital room correction). It might sound better to you in your room, and I'm totally fine with that. Good for you. I'm sure results vary heavily from room to room and listener to listener. This is a discussion people well above my pay grade (and yours I imagine) have discussed and will continue to argue about for years. I'm not going to do that here, but I think it's a bit like discussing politics or religion. $200 here, so not that much. This all makes perfectly good sense and is certainly a good potential path of choice to follow. Again, to you in your room. Cool. But to say a lesser sounding player (the 103) with what you must consider a super human strength equalizer (the UMC-200) together sounds better just tells me that you like equalization, not the player. I never said the 105 was an all in one solution, but it is probably where I am going to start, because having a player that does all the disc types very well is more important to me. By itself it sounds better than the 103, and comes with more connection options. A new stand alone CD player will just have to wait. I mean I do have 4 disc players in my system that all work. Maybe I just get a UMC-200 and make them all sound like dream machines.  Neither the 103 or the 105 is perfect either, and I may just wait anyway (My Denon does very well as a CD player sound wise). Future players will surely have features that will come like native 4K and easier use of the internal DAC's. To each his own. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jan 2, 2014 15:24:59 GMT -5
The ERC-2 was designed to be able to play the Red Book layer on ALL hybrid SACDs. (There might have been compatibility issues with one or two, but I am not aware of them). There was also an early firmware update that fixed some problems with this (maybe yours didn't have the update?). In any case, the ERC-3 does play the Red Book layer of Hybrid SACDs (we confirmed this with several but obviously we couldn't try them all). Unfortunately, the ERC-2 did not play (all) SACD redbook layers. In my two experiences with the ERC-2 it never once read any of the SACDs that I brought to audition. Others have said that their's plays SACD redbook layers; but they were listening to different titles than I was trying. And, yes, all my titles that I tried to audition were "hybrid" SACDs and play absolutely fine in my car, bedroom (Sony DVD/CD), and theater (ERC-1) systems. I'm not sure what happened with the ERC-2 and SACD redbook layer playback and it's water under the bridge as it's no longer offered (and most didn't care if it played the SACD redbook layer), but I'm glad to see that it's been addressed with the new ERC-3. Got it. The old player didn't and so since this ones does they mention it. Makes sense. |
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 2, 2014 15:47:07 GMT -5
I load the CD, sit in the lounge chair and use the remote, I have no real use for any buttons on the ERC-3 itself other than standby on/off and open/close tray. Punch the track number into the remote and in less than a second it's playing, amazingly fast. That's probably because you've never had such buttons on the front. Most inexpensive players throughout the days did / do not have them. Back in the day of the stand alone CD players, it was usually the more costly players that had this feature. I got spoiled because once you have the feature it's great. As I said, with modern trends it just would have been nice. As I'm sure you don't care about my needs, I don't care about yours either. But I'd be willing to bet money the next ERC-4 down the road does have such an input. we have already sorted this out. The product page is vague. Playing HDCD's and decoding them are 2 totally different things. Every CD player in the world plays them [well maybe not the older Emotiva's since they were obviously pieces of crap and wouldn't even play the CD layer of a SACD Hybrid - being a smart *bleep* here - just kidding ) ], but not every player decodes them. That's the important part. Just making excuses for something that can be better. This speed is great among the newer players I've seen, which themselves have all gone backwards, but it's not great. 4-5 seconds extra may not sound like a big deal on a forum, but in reality in direct comparison it's meaningful. It's 40-50%, and when you are used to the faster way, slower seems dreadful. You are not ergonomically minded.  After you load the CD with your right hand, with the Emotiva you now have to push a "close button" or a "play button" that is on the LEFT of the OPEN tray. In a minor sort of way, you have to move your hand in such a way that it (or more likely your wrist) doesn't hit the corner of the tray. Of course if you like to just push in the tray (which I don't like to do myself), then you're good.  But, that doesn't get you out of having to reach left across your body (or move over entirely) to hit the play button, probably with the back of your finger. It's backwards I'm telling ya, backwards.  I can't help it if you are legally blind and the bright lights don't hurt your eyes. Those Emotiva laser beams of light. I'd say it's because most disc loading devices went the way of the computer, and they build those as cheaply a possible. They just don't exist because it's more expensive. I know the tray on my Sony is all metal, and it's just so much nicer. Oh please, this is an Emotiva forum. There are already 20+ pages so far and almost all are about how great this player will be (or is). There will be much more of the same I'm sure. Certainly you aren't threatened by 1 or 2 people's posts pointing out a few issues or personal opinions? Well, actually that may be exactly what it is. Your peg by peg reply negating every single opinion of mine only lends itself to proving the point. Or perhaps you are just upset that I don't find your beloved new baby all you find it to be? Your feelings hurt? I find that hard to believe since I usually find your posts very informative, so hopefully I'm wrong. Just to be sure I just pegged every single one of your line items one by one, TWICE (on 2 posts).  Cheers --- Bonzo |
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 2, 2014 16:00:15 GMT -5
The ERC-2 was designed to be able to play the Red Book layer on ALL hybrid SACDs. (There might have been compatibility issues with one or two, but I am not aware of them). There was also an early firmware update that fixed some problems with this (maybe yours didn't have the update?). In any case, the ERC-3 does play the Red Book layer of Hybrid SACDs (we confirmed this with several but obviously we couldn't try them all). Got it. The old player didn't and so since this ones does they mention it. Makes sense. I wasn't around here back in the days of the ERC-2 so I'm still learnin'. Good to know. Thanks. |
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 2, 2014 17:40:17 GMT -5
The ERC-2 was designed to be able to play the Red Book layer on ALL hybrid SACDs. (There might have been compatibility issues with one or two, but I am not aware of them). There was also an early firmware update that fixed some problems with this (maybe yours didn't have the update?). In any case, the ERC-3 does play the Red Book layer of Hybrid SACDs (we confirmed this with several but obviously we couldn't try them all). I wasn't around here back in the days of the ERC-2 so I'm still learnin'. Good to know. Thanks. By the way KeithL, while you are watching this thread, if you'd like me to reevaluate my "nit picks" from the above posts, I'm surely not opposed to Emotiva sending me a free sample to do some testing. As rough on me as it would be, I'm willing to take one for the Emotiva team if necessary. I know I know, but I had to try. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Jan 2, 2014 19:47:51 GMT -5
I load the CD, sit in the lounge chair and use the remote, I have no real use for any buttons on the ERC-3 itself other than standby on/off and open/close tray. Punch the track number into the remote and in less than a second it's playing, amazingly fast. That's probably because you've never had such buttons on the front. Most inexpensive players throughout the days did / do not have them. Back in the day of the stand alone CD players, it was usually the more costly players that had this feature. I got spoiled because once you have the feature it's great. I am old enough to have had a large number of players (VCR, cassette, CD, DVD. etc) that didn't even have a remote control so they had to have all of their buttons on the top/front/side. I'm sure that you will get over the need for them eventually and join the "remote control is king" era. I'm willing to take that bet, what's the odds? Perhaps the important part was that you were (to use your words) "being a smart *bleep*". The wind blows both ways I actually don't even notice it, not in the slightest, maybe it's simply because my rack is not within reaching distance. So the load time is irrelevant as long as it is not longer than it takes to resume my seating and drinking position, which it isn't. Well, you know, I just had to test it out following your whinge, of course in a genuine attempt to understand your point, but I just can't. The ERC-3 open/close button is vertically in line with the tray, within easy reach of the right hand thumb, so just a quick push of the button, no reaching over/under/around required. BTW, the ERC-3 doesn't have "push the tray to close" facilities, it's in the manual. I don't sit and stare at my gear, I have far more interesting things to look at. FYI, LED stickers are cheap, if you are so attracted to shiny objects that you can't look away.  I'll have to check next time I have the 103 or 105 at home, but I'm sure the Oppo tray is plastic, at least the cover is I'm sure. You do realise that I'm jerking your chain, don't you? Happy New Year Gary |
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on Jan 2, 2014 20:39:22 GMT -5
The ERC-2 was designed to be able to play the Red Book layer on ALL hybrid SACDs. (There might have been compatibility issues with one or two, but I am not aware of them). There was also an early firmware update that fixed some problems with this (maybe yours didn't have the update?). In any case, the ERC-3 does play the Red Book layer of Hybrid SACDs (we confirmed this with several but obviously we couldn't try them all). It may have been designed to play on ALL hybrid SACDs but the implementation fell short of the mark. At Emofest in 2012 the ERC-2 was 0 for 7 on hybrid SACDs from companies such as Polydor, Pentatone, Telarc, and Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab encompassing genres from rock, jazz, and classical. All 7 play on regular CD players (non-SACD capable) including my ERC-1. The only reason why I brought them was that I found them to be relatively well mastered and wanted to hear them on the 2-channel rig Emotiva set up to showcase their top tier products. Again, it's water under the bridge as the ERC-2 is no longer offered. If I had thought about it, I would have brought a few of these disc to listen to Monday (12/30) when I was there to see if the ERC-3 would play them. Based on the conversation I had with Lonnie about this issue back in 2012, I feel confident that it will. |
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 3, 2014 10:57:34 GMT -5
I am old enough to have had a large number of players (VCR, cassette, CD, DVD. etc) that didn't even have a remote control so they had to have all of their buttons on the top/front/side. I'm sure that you will get over the need for them eventually and join the "remote control is king" era. VHS, cassette, DVD, & Blu-ray don't count because those devices either weren't really capable of direct track access (VHS & cassette), or they were/are first and foremost made to play movies (which direct track access isn't really important). The CD is the only format that shines in this category, and direct access is one of the big reasons that really set the CD apart from LP and cassette in the first place. I'm not opposed to it on the remote. Actually, I must have it there or it's no dice. I would prefer 20+ buttons, but that no longer seems to be an option in today's world. But I ALSO want it on the face plate. This way I don't have to hit close or play, I just hit the track I want and walk away. No going to the remote or anything, just hit 1 button and go. Direct access on the faceplate also makes the program function work oh so much easier. Put it on program, then just hit the track numbers you want. Easy peasy. Note: I know for a fact Sony did make a cassette player with direct access. It was a beast of a player from their ES line back in the 90's. 50/50. You say no, I say yes. (Sounds like a Beatles lyric  I've been bragging up my Sony but it's certainly not perfect either. It's got issues too. Front panels are much about personal taste, so there is no 100% "right" answer. But I would be curious to know, in a money no object world, if Emotiva offered up a right hand vs left hand model, which would sell more. As it is, I would call it a left hand model. You must not use Emotiva equipment in a darkened room setting? Like home theater etc? Emotiva lights are so bright that in a dark room you can almost read a book by them. It's taken a lot of complaining but Emotiva is finally listening by adding dimmers to their stuff (and from what I've read they've also dimmed down the max on output on Gen 2 devices). Tape/stickers works some, but it's hard to tape the big power button and especially all the lights that are rings around buttons (or worse yet a volume dial). It would totally not surprise me if it is. Being plastic doesn't mean it's inherently bad, because there are advantages to plastic too, if it's all made properly. Problem is most trays anymore are made so flimsy and cheap that it's amazing they don't break all the time. I'm sure the Emotiva tray is one of the better ones. Like I said, being metal would be a preference if possible, but it's certainly not necessary. The fact that they switched to a tray loader IS a big deal to me. I would have never bought the ERC-1 or 2 with a slot loader. Slot loaders are for car stereos and that's about it. I took a look at my Sony last night and it's funny. The tray itself is definitely metal. The gears that run it are metal. It rides/slides along a round metal tube that's about 3/16" thick (about 5 mm). It's all very solid feeling with very little movement. The tray on top is painted black with a very smooth baked on finish, and is shaped in such a way that the disc doesn't have to be placed perfectly and still easily slides into place. The front panel around the tray is metal too. But, the front decorative part of the tray is in fact plastic. That's what I was thinking yes, but no, I wasn't 100% sure. From all your previous posts I've read you have come across as being pretty cool, so I was holding onto that opinion. Now I know I think we may have a similar mind set on certain things, as good or bad as that may be.  |
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 3, 2014 11:16:59 GMT -5
So while we continue to get more input regarding the sound of the Emotiva, I have some ergonomic things to discuss. - We've got a load time of around 9-10 seconds. - We know it was created more for left handers more than righties (a matter of opinion of course, but for me the entire front face seems flipped the wrong way. Using it as is will be a serious quirk for me). - We know the remote is a tank, and appears to be a point of preference as to whether you like that sort of thing (I do by the way. How anyone can complain about something being made "too well" amuses me.) How is the track skipping? Not play back skipping, but skipping or jumping from track to track? Like quickly pressing the track skip button multiple times to go from track 2 to track 14? Or using the direct track buttons on the remote? I only ask because this is important to me. It's a huge down side for my Denon Universal when compared to my Sony. It's something even big dogs don't pay attention to. I got to use a mega-buck Classé CD player a few years ago and it was the worst transport I've ever used. Skipping tracks was totally frustrating and VERY slow. I don't always listen to entire CD's, especially when friends are over. On the contrary, we do a lot of DJ style listening where we load and unload CD's and quickly jump to tracks. Back on topic of the ERC-3, to those who have the units, what's the answer to my post above that I made a while back? |
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Post by trinhsman on Jan 3, 2014 11:36:39 GMT -5
The ERC-3 is the best player I have ever had, period. Left or right handed, who cares. To me it is all about the sound. The better the sound, the happier I am. The more things you want a player to do are more things that can break. So, again, to me it is about the sound. If you don't have the ERC-3, and are complaining about it seems kind of mute to me. I am currently listening to a promotional jazz cd and I am in the club. ABSOLUTELY AMAZING!!!
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Post by Gary Cook on Jan 3, 2014 17:14:34 GMT -5
So while we continue to get more input regarding the sound of the Emotiva, I have some ergonomic things to discuss. - We've got a load time of around 9-10 seconds. - We know it was created more for left handers more than righties (a matter of opinion of course, but for me the entire front face seems flipped the wrong way. Using it as is will be a serious quirk for me). - We know the remote is a tank, and appears to be a point of preference as to whether you like that sort of thing (I do by the way. How anyone can complain about something being made "too well" amuses me.) How is the track skipping? Not play back skipping, but skipping or jumping from track to track? Like quickly pressing the track skip button multiple times to go from track 2 to track 14? Or using the direct track buttons on the remote? I only ask because this is important to me. It's a huge down side for my Denon Universal when compared to my Sony. It's something even big dogs don't pay attention to. I got to use a mega-buck Classé CD player a few years ago and it was the worst transport I've ever used. Skipping tracks was totally frustrating and VERY slow. I don't always listen to entire CD's, especially when friends are over. On the contrary, we do a lot of DJ style listening where we load and unload CD's and quickly jump to tracks. Back on topic of the ERC-3, to those who have the units, what's the answer to my post above that I made a while back? I promise I won't play with your ADD this time As I mentioned in a previous post the ERC-3 is blindingly fast at playing the selected track, easily the fastest player I have used. Punch in the track number and it's playing. I haven't done a lot of track skipping, I tend to stick in CD and let it play, probably comes from the vinyl habits. What I have done is to skip back to the start of a song quite a few times and that's also instantaneous. Hang on and I'll go and try it.............wait..........I'll be back....be patient. Happy New Year Gary |
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But, that doesn't get you out of having to reach left across your body (or move over entirely) to hit the play button, probably with the back of your finger. It's backwards I'm telling ya, backwards. 
