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Post by ocezam on Nov 9, 2014 10:08:53 GMT -5
Last night confirmed in spades every negative thing I've ever written about the Emotiva Stealth DC-1 DAC. The $150 Audioquest Dragonfly beat the DC-1 like the dog it is.You do realize whose forum this is, and under whose generosity we gather don't you? LOL - I wondered how long it would take for someone to blame the room, the sound absorbers, the setup, the speaker placement - ANYTHING but admit that the Stealth DC-1 isn't the greatest DAC in the world. Wasn't long! Considering Gar's split opinion on the DC-1 seems wholly dependent on the venue in which it is placed, I think blaming it on "the room, the sound absorbers, the setup, the speaker placement" is entirely logical. LOL.
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Post by aud on Nov 9, 2014 10:14:57 GMT -5
Boom, Have you ever heard the DC-1 in Garbulky's house? How did it sound there? Based on your conclusions in your room it would be interesting. I guess that is why there are 500 audio manufacturers or electronics and at least that number of speaker manufacturers ( numbers completely made up). This would be interesting! I feel as though I've been reading a novel and suddenly it has left me hanging. By the way, as you can see in my sig. I do not own an Oppo 105 or a DC-1.
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Post by Boomzilla on Nov 9, 2014 10:45:48 GMT -5
I've NOT yet heard the Stealth DC-1 at Garbulky's house (or any other venue whee it sounded good). I hope to soon, but they have a far less flexible schedule than mine.
I wouldn't expect the DC-1 to sound radically different, either. It will retain its inherent characteristics. Gar's room and system may go far in hiding or minimizing the DC-1's flaws, but the flaws will still be there.
As to the notion that "This is Emotiva's forum so we should never criticize Emotiva," I treat it with the scorn it deserves. If one's ONLY purpose was to bash Emotiva, then the comments are useless. However, I've said EXACTLY what I didn't like about the DC-1's sound; it sounds like there's a recessed upper midrange and a hard treble. If Emotiva is smart, they'll welcome the constructive criticism.
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novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,230
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Post by novisnick on Nov 9, 2014 11:39:14 GMT -5
I've NOT yet heard the Stealth DC-1 at Garbulky's house (or any other venue whee it sounded good). I hope to soon, but they have a far less flexible schedule than mine. I wouldn't expect the DC-1 to sound radically different, either. It will retain its inherent characteristics. Gar's room and system may go far in hiding or minimizing the DC-1's flaws, but the flaws will still be there. As to the notion that "This is Emotiva's forum so we should never criticize Emotiva," I treat it with the scorn it deserves. If one's ONLY purpose was to bash Emotiva, then the comments are useless. However, I've said EXACTLY what I didn't like about the DC-1's sound; it sounds like there's a recessed upper midrange and a hard treble. If Emotiva is smart, they'll welcome the constructive criticism. I think you just found another reason to take a ride north. and by the way, I think that the DC-1 makes a perfect slice of toast!!,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,OH!,,,,,,,,,,,,,Wait,,,,,,,,Wrong thread!!,,,,,,
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Post by ocezam on Nov 9, 2014 12:04:45 GMT -5
As to the notion that "This is Emotiva's forum so we should never criticize Emotiva, If you are going to put a phrase in quotation marks, you might want to make certain it's an actual quote. No one said anything remotely like that. If Emotiva is smart, they'll welcome the constructive criticism. Yep, I bet they hang on your every word. They need to disregard all the overwhelmingly positive reviews now that your's is public. LOL
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Post by Boomzilla on Nov 9, 2014 12:13:31 GMT -5
Well, "the squeaky wheel gets the grease." If EVERYONE loves the product without reservation, then there's no incentive to make it better.
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Post by brubacca on Nov 9, 2014 14:48:52 GMT -5
Oh my gosh... Someone doesn't like an Emotiva product..get the shackles , light the torches!
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Post by brand on Nov 9, 2014 15:12:55 GMT -5
I really couldn't care less if somebody says something bad about Emotiva products, I'm sure even Big Dan doesn't mind if somebody critizes his products, this forum is not meant to solely praise Emotiva products. Having said that I just don't buy the whole night/day difference that you claim to hear. If you had mentioned smaller differences it might have sounded believable but comparing an Oppo 105/Dragondly to a DC-1 and hearing that much of a difference ... meh.
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Post by Axis on Nov 9, 2014 15:24:22 GMT -5
No, Big Dan does not mind if somebody critizes his products. He is just trying to make the best product he can for the best price he can because he cares.
When I think about this I think about this:
Try it !
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Post by brubacca on Nov 9, 2014 15:34:45 GMT -5
I really couldn't care less if somebody says something bad about Emotiva products, I'm sure even Big Dan doesn't mind if somebody critizes his products, this forum is not meant to solely praise Emotiva products. Having said that I just don't buy the whole night/day difference that you claim to hear. If you had mentioned smaller differences it might have sounded believable but comparing an Oppo 105/Dragondly to a DC-1 and hearing that much of a difference ... meh. I have 4 DACs, and I can tell the differences in all of them. Some are night and day and some are subtle. I'm sure it has to do with voicing of the Dac. The Emotiva DACs are voices to be very neutral (according to people at Emotiva). I believe that I read that the Oppo Dac is voiced to be on the analog side of neutral. I read this on head-fi about the HA-1 headphone amp. It was stated by the oppo rep that the 105 and now ha-1 are voiced to be a bit on the warmer side. The ess sabre 9018 is a detail king, but oppo put their spin and voicing on it. I have zero problem considering that the oppo 105 and Emotiva sound very different. Maybe Boomzilla likes the detail, but also the warmer presentation? I can tell you that my XDA-1 is my least favorite DAC at this point. The others I have are voiced with a different goal. The Rega is very warm and tube like and the naim is less tubey, but focuses on the emotional drive in the music. I would think that others who would hear my DACs would also hear the difference.
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Post by garbulky on Nov 9, 2014 15:59:18 GMT -5
Oh boy, I figured this would be the general reaction. It's okay everybody I still like my DC-1! And no, B'zilla is not deaf nor is his room made out of tin. We did try to waltz the speakers around quite a bit - we didn't have all day but at some point, it just stopped being fun and we just decided to enjoy the music and make the best of what we had. But we really did try and B'zilla was very patient with my constant demands for toe in and move it an inch this way and that Look all I can say is that's what I heard when we demo'd the DAC's. And indeed that was what B'zilla heard too. Indeed it is a different room than mine....but so is everybody else's room. I'm not going to extrapolate reasons for why they sounded the way they did as I don't know - and neither does anybody else. Sometimes, the result is just that - a result. Also if anybody knows B'zilla, he's bought more emo products than most. I'm pretty sure he's used the majority of products Emotiva has produced. Just off the top of my head, at his place he has had XDA-1, XDA-2, DC-1 (X2), USP-1, control freak (X2) XSP-1 gen1, gen 2 (x2), XPA-1L's, XPA-2, UPA-1's, XPR-2, mini-X, UPA-500 etc. So I wouldn't label him as anything but an emo fan who is very passionate about his audio!
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klinemj
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Honorary Emofest Scribe
Posts: 14,756
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Post by klinemj on Nov 9, 2014 16:31:41 GMT -5
You guys' comparison is certainly valid, but it confuses me. I have directly compared my Oppo 105 vs.my DC-1 more than once, including with friends present. What boomer says about the DC-1 is what me and my friends tend to say about the Oppo.
Each to their own!
Mark (PS...that said...boomzilla, I do think your statement "like the dog it is" is overly harsh. You may stand by it, but it seems like in that post overall you are being a bit over the top/giddy.)
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Post by brand on Nov 9, 2014 17:37:49 GMT -5
I really couldn't care less if somebody says something bad about Emotiva products, I'm sure even Big Dan doesn't mind if somebody critizes his products, this forum is not meant to solely praise Emotiva products. Having said that I just don't buy the whole night/day difference that you claim to hear. If you had mentioned smaller differences it might have sounded believable but comparing an Oppo 105/Dragondly to a DC-1 and hearing that much of a difference ... meh. I have 4 DACs, and I can tell the differences in all of them. Some are night and day and some are subtle. I'm sure it has to do with voicing of the Dac. The Emotiva DACs are voices to be very neutral (according to people at Emotiva). I believe that I read that the Oppo Dac is voiced to be on the analog side of neutral. I read this on head-fi about the HA-1 headphone amp. It was stated by the oppo rep that the 105 and now ha-1 are voiced to be a bit on the warmer side. The ess sabre 9018 is a detail king, but oppo put their spin and voicing on it. I have zero problem considering that the oppo 105 and Emotiva sound very different. Maybe Boomzilla likes the detail, but also the warmer presentation? I can tell you that my XDA-1 is my least favorite DAC at this point. The others I have are voiced with a different goal. The Rega is very warm and tube like and the naim is less tubey, but focuses on the emotional drive in the music. I would think that others who would hear my DACs would also hear the difference. "I have devices x, y and z and I can tell the difference between all of them". Probably one of the most often stated in online audio forums and reviews (right after some sort of "night and day" expression). Again if you were talking about speakers or room acoustics ok but in my personal experience with DACs not so much. Of course you might be the exception but personally I just don't buy into the whole night and day thing.
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Post by Boomzilla on Nov 9, 2014 18:03:55 GMT -5
You guys' comparison is certainly valid, but it confuses me. I have directly compared my Oppo 105 vs.my DC-1 more than once, including with friends present. What boomer says about the DC-1 is what me and my friends tend to say about the Oppo. Each to their own! Well put, klinemj. I understand that others' ears are different. I also understand that in some systems (Garbulky's and NovisNick's for example), the Stealth DC-1 produces "Amazing" sound (quote from Mrs. Garbulky, whose ears I trust). Those characteristics which gall me so about the DC-1 are either complimentary to others' systems or are being hidden by the associated equipment. I respect that. ...that said...boomzilla, I do think your statement "like the dog it is" is overly harsh. You may stand by it, but it seems like in that post overall you are being a bit over the top/giddy.) If you had heard the DAC in my room and with my components, I think you might have agreed. Were the differences between the Oppo and the DC-1 "night and day?" No, they were not. However, they were plainly audible to both Garbulky and to me. I did NOT coach Garbulky on what to listen for, either. No amount of speaker tweaking could completely do away with the sound signature introduced by the Stealth DC-1 (although we could slightly mask the effects by clever placement). In my room, and to my ears, the Stealth DC-1 is a dog of a component. Kind of like a 1970's Akai integrated amp, it is bright and harsh in the treble and no amount of associated equipment is going to undo the damage that the DC-1 has done to the sound. My experience is NOT universal. I've personally encouraged others to try the DC-1 - It may be a great fit for their systems. It is not in mine. So to summarize: The Stealth DC-1 has "a sound of its own." Some may like the sound, others not. I stand by my contention, however, that this DAC is NOT a "neutral component." I could say the same thing about a single-ended triode amplifier. It isn't to say that the SET amp isn't great sounding in some systems, but it is not a neutral component either. I find Emotiva's amplifiers to be neutral. I don't find the same about the Stealth DC-1.
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Post by milsap195 on Nov 9, 2014 18:59:27 GMT -5
I have both and like both. To me there is not a whole lot of difference between them.
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Post by Jim on Nov 9, 2014 21:42:52 GMT -5
if the DC-1 is half as bad as you feel it is, why don't others agree? I would think there would be someone who feels similarly.
I understand you feel strongly about it.... But your island seems to be pretty sparsely populated.
Seems like the most common con is "sounds like other decent DACs".
I respect your opinion - just seems like you're the only one in the room saying that the temperature is horribly wrong when its 75 degrees.
My only thinking is that your setup brings out the worst of the DC-1 somehow.
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Post by yeeeha17 on Nov 9, 2014 21:48:10 GMT -5
Boom, have you try bringing the Oppo to garbulky's house and see if it sounds as good as the DC -1 at his house?
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Post by deltadube on Nov 9, 2014 21:55:37 GMT -5
Boom, have you try bringing the Oppo to garbulky's house and see if it sounds as good as the DC -1 at his house? yeah when is this going to happen?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2014 23:58:17 GMT -5
You guys' comparison is certainly valid, but it confuses me. I have directly compared my Oppo 105 vs.my DC-1 more than once, including with friends present. What boomer says about the DC-1 is what me and my friends tend to say about the Oppo. =========================================================================================================================== This just proves to me that synergy of components and room interaction plays a bigger part than we think.
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Post by moko on Nov 10, 2014 4:40:11 GMT -5
Well it didn't go quite as I imagined. Speaking frankly, in his setup, the oppo 105 was simply superior in every way to the DC-1. This was interesting as the DC-1 is technically superior with dedicated dual dacs, and a dedicated power supply for only two channels of audio vs the 7.1 + ethernet + Blu ray drive + video of the oppo 105 all in one unit. gar, oppo 105 has 2 sabre chips : 1 for 7.1 channels and the other for stereo channel. the sabre chips itself has 8 channels. the dac section also has dedicated analog outputs which is in balance configuration. that's why the price of oppo 105 is more than twice compared to 103. 103 vs 105
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