What sub to buy now that the XRef 12 is discontinued

[me262]

Hey Guys,
So wouldn't you know it, I finally sell my Ultra Sub 10 and have the money to go buy an XRef 12 and they are out of both new and B stock, and they have been discontinued. So that leaves me in a bit of a pickle. I am looking to spend 600 lowest and 800 highest. The running favorite as the moment is a SVS PC12-NSD.

My listening habits are music 50-60% of the time and movies and tv the rest. This sub will be put in with my main system so it will be with the ERT 8.3's and be controlled when in movie mode by the UMC-200 and in music the XSP-1.

My home is in an apartment building, its a concrete loft so sound insolation is pretty good, my ceilings are 16 ft high and the listening portion of the rooms is 15x11, but it is an open floor plan so the actual space is much lager.

Suggestions Please! Thank you for your help.

[GreenKiwi]

People seem to like Rythmik subs. They are on my list for my next sub.

[me262]

I have scene them, they look good but with shipping they are slightly out of my price range which is a little tough, combining that with fears that it might not have high enough output for me room causes me concern

[garthsa]

Try Powersound - seem to get good reviews - and there are a couple just under 800 = including shipping in the US - www.powersoundaudio.com. One of the guys on the JTR forums on AVS uses them with JTR mains and seems happy

[bootman]

Get the SVS PC12-NSD and don't look back.

SVS gives you free shipping back if you don't like it in your room.
Can't lose anything to try it.

..and great customer service.

Highly recommended company.

[Dark Ranger]

The SVS is a good choice. Also, here are three other suggestions:

HSU Research VTF-3 MK4

Power Sound Audio XV15

Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX


The standard Rythmiks are just outside your price range, except for the new LV12R, also here. It's an entry-level model that provides Direct Servo technology at an affordable price.

[bootman]

Actually the SB12-NSD is more comparable to the XREF-12.

[me262]

I am liking the PC12-NSD and the SB12-NSD, between the two, does anyone have a suggestion. I was always a little disappointed about the fact that my sub 10 didn't drop below 30 hz but loved the tight base for music. Will the PC12-NSD give me that or should I really be going with the SB12?

[darkvisions]

I bought the SB12-NSD a few weeks ago to go with my 8.3's and I absolutely love it. Has plenty of headroom, is very tight musically and it also does amazing things with movie soundtracks. I didn't know what I was missing with my 15 year old Velodyne.

On the plus side their customer service before the sale was stellar. They answered all of my questions and concerns before I even bought the sub. And afterwards they helped me dial it in for my set up.

[bootman]

Shoot svs an email about it.
Give them your room layout and budget and they will help you.

Last time I did this they even recommended a lower priced product!

[mickeyharlow]

For $150.00 more you could get two SVS PB-1000's. Just a thought if you were ever thinking about dual subs.

[me262]

I have never run dual subs, better response I understand but is it worth the lesser power and lesser drivers?

[monkumonku]

Jun 17, 2013 16:37:23 GMT -5 me262 said:

I have never run dual subs, better response I understand but is it worth the lesser power and lesser drivers?

Could you clarify what you mean by "lesser power and lesser drivers?"

[Dark Ranger]

Jun 17, 2013 13:38:14 GMT -5 me262 said:

I am liking the PC12-NSD and the SB12-NSD, between the two, does anyone have a suggestion. I was always a little disappointed about the fact that my sub 10 didn't drop below 30 hz but loved the tight base for music. Will the PC12-NSD give me that or should I really be going with the SB12?

Both models use a 400 watt RMS (800 watts peak) amplifier with a 12 inch driver. One major difference (besides the enclosure type) is that the PC12-NSD is ported while the SB12-NSD is sealed. The ported model will likely give you more apparent output, punch, and impact. The sealed will likely be "tighter" sounding and probably more similar to the XREF-12 in that regard. In addition, the ported cylinder gives you a bit lower extension if you want to dig into the < 20 Hz region.

[Dark Ranger]

Jun 17, 2013 16:37:23 GMT -5 me262 said:

I have never run dual subs, better response I understand but is it worth the lesser power and lesser drivers?

With two PB-1000, you actually get more power output capability from two subs versus a single sub:

PB-1000 (300 watts RMS, 700 watts peak) x 2 = 600 watts RMS, 1400 watts peak
PC12-NSD or SB12-NSD = 400 watts RMS, 800 watts peak

Two 10" cones also provide more displacement than a single 12" cone. Basically, you can move more air, plus smooth out the bass response in your room by placing the subs in two different locations.

[me262]

I meant the 1000's vs the 12 when I said lesser but you make a good point. The two PB-1000's may be an option. I can justify the 150, if it will be better. Would this be the option to go with?

[mickeyharlow]

I would have purchased those if they had been available at the time I bought my PB-12 Plus.

[Boomzilla]

Well, I'll probably get flamed for saying so, but I've always had good luck with Definitive Technology subs.

[Dark Ranger]

Jun 17, 2013 17:14:27 GMT -5 me262 said:

I meant the 1000's vs the 12 when I said lesser but you make a good point. The two PB-1000's may be an option. I can justify the 150, if it will be better. Would this be the option to go with?

Well, you're coming from an Ultra Sub 10, right? What was your primary reason for upgrading to the XREF-12? More power? Bigger driver? Possibly better SQ?

If you know the requirements, it's easier to make a decision. If you were happy with the output and SQ of the Ultra Sub 10, but wanted a little bit more of both, maybe something like the SB12-NSD would suffice. If you're looking for additional output for HT, you can go with a beefier amp or even get a ported sub. If you want more output with a smoother response throughout the room, the dual PB-1000 mentioned earlier would be nice, too, even though it's a bit over budget.

Honestly, you can't go wrong with any of SVS's products. They have excellent customer service and great sounding subs.

[spurriersucks]

Tom, from PSA, said the XV15 was comparable to the SVS PB12 Plus. I would go with that for the money. They are also coming in wood veneers now.