Emo Subwoofers: What's next?

[Deleted]

1) Now that EMO has discontinued their current design subwoofer; anyone like to speculate on the next generation? I believe there was some talk about separate speakers and amplifiers. Now that many of the pre/pros have bass management and adjustable high/low pass filters built in, you could use any amplifier.

2) Along the same line, I have a spare power amp, and woodworking skills and equipment. What speakers/drivers would you recommend? I watch movies and listen to organ music so need low frequency power. You can see my current setup in the sig below.

Sincerely
/b

[Boomzilla]

What I'd really like to see from Emotiva in a subwoofer is lower bass response. The old subs were obviously made for home theater with 30 Hz roll-offs. Give me a below-20-Hz sub with lots of cone area and excursion in a big box. I don't care if it's self-powered with a plate amp or is a passive model that I can hook up to an Emotiva amp. The latter is actually somewhat more attractive. Put some built-in room correction into the sub and (if it's self powered) wireless connection.

I'd also like a variety of finishes, please. Black just isn't my living room.

Boomzilla

[plato]

Weren't the previous sub's made for.... Music and not home theater? Most music happens to decline at 30hz while movies have LFE...

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using proboards

[Ramair]

Said to say, it appears Emotiva has all but abandoned the development of new subs, especially with regards to the line of DSP subs they talked about years ago.

For a quick review, one need only do a search on the ERS-212. The twin speaker design was talked about well over 4 years ago, with consistent, promised dates coming and going. It was discussed at length during Emofests and on the Podcasts, but nothing has ever come of it. It's really quite sad...

I'm getting ready to move on from Emotiva, as I feel I've been more than patient waiting for them to release their "new" line of Home Theater subs. It's left a very sour taste in my mouth, especially as one of the early adopters of their pre-pro and amp units. While I did upgrade to the UMC-1, one need only search on the headaches this unit has caused as well.

[Boomzilla]

Emotiva wishes to be a "full system provider" with products in EVERY market corner. For that reason, they WILL produce and market new subs. What I'd like has NOTHING to do with what will sell. The average consumer wants:

Low price
Compact enclosures
Impact for movie viewing
Ability to go deafeningly loudly without damage to the sub
Specs which lie about the LF cut off (so I can tell my friends that my sub goes down to 5 Hz!!!)
And did I mention low price?

What I would like is quite different:

Excellent pitch definition
Flat frequency response
True subsonic performance
Ability to perform up to 200 Hz with agile blending to the satellite speakers
Ability to adapt to the room with a minimum of user effort
Exceptionally low distortion
A focus on music reproduction rather than movie effects
Cabinets in wood veneer rather than black vinyl

I wouldn't care if the box had to be larger or the cost had to be somewhat higher. I'm a small minority of the potential customer base, though, so I don't expect to get what I want.

C'est la Vie...

[mshump]

On yesterday's podcast Dan stated that Bob Carver was working on some subs. SUNFIRE???

[Deleted]

This always brings a smile to my face:
>> A focus on music reproduction rather than movie effects <<

Sound reproduction is sound reproduction, folks. It is either done accurately or not. It's not as though the subwoofer "knows" that it's playing music as opposed to a movie soundtrack.

And yes, Emo led us on quite a bit with the touting of their digital drive, DSP-enabled subs 3-4 years ago. They were mentioned many times, capabilities and composition were discussed in detail. And then they pulled a vanishing act, never to be heard from again.

C'mon Emo, release those Velodyne killers already!!

-RW-

[blkman0072]

Hello all! Im a noobie here as well as EMO. I just got a man cave and started to look into products. Now doing so I can understand why EMO has a hard time with producing a sub. It seems to me that people are more likely to keep a sub and sell ou upgrade speakers. So how many would they really sell at a price that would cover the cost of making here in the states. I know of a copany that makes a 10" sub that sells for 700.00 and has a business model like EMO but how many do they sell when competing with sub superpowers and people that have subs they love? So of you are already to move on because of one product not being offered. You think EMO doesnt think twice then. they make it then everyone has moved on. I would just hope they give it a chance and let some of us remember ROME wasnt built in a day.

[yves]

Jul 1, 2013 14:42:23 GMT -5 blkman0072 said:

I would just hope they give it a chance and let some of us remember ROME wasnt built in a day.

In the world of subwoofers, ROME was built by Bob Carver.

[Boomzilla]

Yeah, but Rome ala Mr. Carver was RUMBLE-ROME. Excellent as a true sub-woofer, but don't try crossing it over at any frequency above 50 Hz.

[blkman0072]

So a carver daul driver sub is the best Rome makes? However super nice wouldnt that be overkill in most systems? I myself would like to see EMOjust have a nice priced sub. Do subs have balanced inputs? That I think would make an interesting sub. Mr. Caver doesnt even have that. I know it would lock people into just buying EMO but why not be able to special order it at least? That could make me wait to get one. Semi custom sub? Have a standard driver and pick inputs and amp size and if its sealed or ported. I dont need a dual driver just to rattle my teeth.

[Metaldude]

There was a thread started a few months back by Emo asking loungers their opinions and suggestions on what they would want in a sub..I would think they were investigating the suggestions posted to formulate a new range of subs...

[yves]

Jul 1, 2013 20:04:54 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

Yeah, but Rome ala Mr. Carver was RUMBLE-ROME. Excellent as a true sub-woofer, but don't try crossing it over at any frequency above 50 Hz.

If you want to cross it over above 50 Hz, get a woofer instead of a subwoofer.

[yves]

Jul 1, 2013 20:47:17 GMT -5 blkman0072 said:

So a carver daul driver sub is the best Rome makes?

Yeah but Brussels took over from Rome.

[blkman0072]

So if EMO does bring back its subs would it be better to have one sub two drives or two subs with one driver? AM I posting in the rite place? I dont want the hounds sent after me since i put that issue of balanced inputs in the wrong place.

[Boomzilla]

Jul 3, 2013 16:33:07 GMT -5 blkman0072 said:

So if EMO does bring back its subs would it be better to have one sub two drives or two subs with one driver? ..

Hi blkman0072 -

The advantage of two subs (regardless of how many drivers each have) is that they can be physically separated in the listening room to provide (hopefully) smoother bass response. Most subs I've seen have one driver - some have two. What the subs often have, however, is what looks like another driver but is actually not driven by a magnet. These are called "passive radiators." They provide air-coupled output in phase with the electrically-powered woofer to increase output without having the noise of a port in the box. Ported boxes, particularly when played at high volumes, make "chuffing" noises if they have an opening (port). The passive radiator avoids that noise.

I hope this wasn't more info than you really wanted, but I thought I'd try.

Boomzilla

[blkman0072]

Thanks Boom for the info. It helps because reading EMO was going to put out new subs and looking at post if Carver was in on it there might be two drivers from what I understand. I know the sunfires have two drivers. Looking at EMO's pre with two sub outputs was making me wonder. Would two EMO's be better than one. Based on what you said I will be going two seperate subs no matter what. Now does anyone have more info on the subs?

[Deleted]

I have a great respect for the brilliance of Bob Carver, we are neighbors. He has developed some fantastic products over the years. Sometimes though Bob's creations don't have a wide customer appeal and are more specialty components. I hope at Emotiva he keeps his focus on what he does best, amps and in this case tube amps. A relatively small number of mainstream tube amps in the more affordable price range would be right up Emotiva's alley.

I have in the past stated that I hoped Emotiva would venture a little deeper (pun intended) into conventional subs that go lower for the more serious HT and pipe organ crowd. The X-Ref subs were a great compromise for excellent music performance and adequate HT performance with great adjustablilty features. I hope they would consider several slightly larger (don't have to be refrigerator size) subs with built-in amps, satin black finish that will continue the great musical performance and drop into the lower HT bass performance. I have in mind a sealed sub with a 12" driver and a cabinet of approximately 16-16.5" cube or equivalent rectangular exterior enclosure volume, 50-60 lbs, 600-700 watts, down to 21-22Hz at -3dB and sell in the $749-$799 range.

A second sub would be similar with a 15" sealed driver, approx 17-18" cube or equivalent cabinet, 70-80 lbs, 750-1000 watts, down to 18-20Hz at -3dB and sell in the $949-$999 range.

I would like to see a continuance of a smaller sub like the X-Ref 10 sub.

I hope they will not develop smaller cube style subs like in the Sunfire series. These are impressive for their extra small size but are really a specialty sub for those who have small areas. They are way too expensive for their relative performance, as they need huge magnets, long excursion drivers and high power amps to compensate for the small enclosures..

[blkman0072]

Yeah I would like to see a 12" woofer in a nice enclosure. I've never been a big fan of sunfire amps. They seem a lil boomie for me. Then the price can hurt a lot. I hope that at the least EMO brings a 10" sub back so I can double up. The hard part is there is no word on what they are trying to do.

[badjerjim]

Jul 4, 2013 0:48:45 GMT -5 @chuckienut said:

I have a great respect for the brilliance of Bob Carver, we are neighbors. He has developed some fantastic products over the years. Sometimes though Bob's creations don't have a wide customer appeal and are more specialty components. I hope at Emotiva he keeps his focus on what he does best, amps and in this case tube amps. A relatively small number of mainstream tube amps in the more affordable price range would be right up Emotiva's alley.

I have in the past stated that I hoped Emotiva would venture a little deeper (pun intended) into conventional subs that go lower for the more serious HT and pipe organ crowd. The X-Ref subs were a great compromise for excellent music performance and adequate HT performance with great adjustablilty features. I hope they would consider several slightly larger (don't have to be refrigerator size) subs with built-in amps, satin black finish that will continue the great musical performance and drop into the lower HT bass performance. I have in mind a sealed sub with a 12" driver and a cabinet of approximately 16-16.5" cube or equivalent rectangular exterior enclosure volume, 50-60 lbs, 600-700 watts, down to 21-22Hz at -3dB and sell in the $749-$799 range.

A second sub would be similar with a 15" sealed driver, approx 17-18" cube or equivalent cabinet, 70-80 lbs, 750-1000 watts, down to 18-20Hz at -3dB and sell in the $949-$999 range.

I would like to see a continuance of a smaller sub like the X-Ref 10 sub.

I hope they will not develop smaller cube style subs like in the Sunfire series. These are impressive for their extra small size but are really a specialty sub for those who have small areas. They are way too expensive for their relative performance, as they need huge magnets, long excursion drivers and high power amps to compensate for the small enclosures..

+1 for this. Except... I think there's a huge market for the cube-style subs like the Carver Sunfire series. Many of us have a smaller-size living room or listening room... or live in an apartment/condo. I propose that's actually the majority of the market for subs... not at all a 'specialty niche market.' Think about it: a pair of speakers like the Emotiva XRT-5.2, with a pair of really fast and transparent cube-style subs could be astonishing in an average-size living room. And overall small enough that the wife won't complain about freakin huge speakers that ruin her decor.

Purists who want big ss 15" sealed driver subs? THAT is a niche market.