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Post by phatfos1 on Jul 16, 2013 8:16:17 GMT -5
I am thinking of trying out a DIY sub adventure. Curious what type of amp I should get with this sub. Also wondering if anyone has heard this sub in HT. People really seem to rave about it. Sealed or ported? Seems like I could build a really amazing sub for under $2,000 even with a professional finish. Thoughts? It's either DIY or SVS PB Ultra. Seems I can get a lot more for my money in the DIY arena.
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Post by laserman35 on Jul 16, 2013 9:40:25 GMT -5
I'm working on a box for that sub as well.
For the amp I'm using a Behringer EUROPOWER EP4000 because it is cheap and durable. I got mine used for $100.
If you use the Behringer you may want to change the fan if you put it in the same room. There are a few post on the web on how to do this.
Pro-audio amps are tanks with lots of cheap power. Those plate amps are often junk. Any respectable amp with the power will be fine for a subwoofer.
I had a pair of JL W7's and the foam started cracking after 2 years. I don't know how people still buy these things.
TC sounds just have a great reputation for being bulletproof this is why I'm getting one.
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ZrC
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Post by ZrC on Jul 16, 2013 9:42:37 GMT -5
It will sound good in sealed or ported but most go sealed since a ported box would need to be huge to accommodate it properly and most just don't have the space. Aside from the driver and custom box you will need a DJ amp to power it (Behringer EP2500/4000, Crown XLS drivecore series etc) but all can be done under $2000 still. How much space do you have to work with?
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ZrC
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Post by ZrC on Jul 16, 2013 9:43:55 GMT -5
I'm working on a box for that sub as well. For the amp I'm using a Behringer EUROPOWER EP4000 because it is cheap and durable. I got mine used for $100. If you use the Behringer you may want to change the fan if you put it in the same room. There are a few post on the web on how to do this. Pro-audio amps are tanks with lots of cheap power. Those plate amps are often junk. Any respectable amp with the power will be fine for a subwoofer. I had a pair of JL W7's and the foam started cracking after 2 years. I don't know how people still buy these things. TC sounds just have a great reputation for being bulletproof this is why I'm getting one. Shocking the W7s were breaking down so quick, seems most bigger companies go for profits over quality now. |
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Post by phatfos1 on Jul 16, 2013 9:54:15 GMT -5
Space is not a huge factor, but I'm thinking that ported for an 18" would have to be very large and I already have way to much space taken up by the 6 towers I have (that's according to my wife, not me).
I did read that this sub performs well in smaller enclosures. Most likely I'm going to go sealed with pro audio amplification. My only concern is whether the pro audio option will play low enough. I can't imagine them being designed to play really low, although I guess synths and some other computer based sounds are down near 20. I was looking at the XTi 4002. I think that would do this sub justice but my concern is how it would perform on the lowest LFE stuff? I would imagine it does roll off near 20 but I'm new to this arena, obviously, so if anyone can enlighten me...by all means.
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Post by laserman35 on Jul 16, 2013 10:07:58 GMT -5
Under 20 you will not miss it because you can not hear it.
I'm using mine with a bass shaker just being anal so i do not miss anything.
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Post by phatfos1 on Jul 16, 2013 10:33:33 GMT -5
But you will FEEL it under 20 ;-) Everyone always talks about their subs going down to 15hz and it's the end all be all for truly realistic LFE reproduction. I am sure that I can't hear it like I can other higher frequencies, but I am certain that there is sound below 20hz on movie soundtracks and that it's there for a reason. The SVS has respectable output below 20hz and I can't imagine that it's a pointless exercise (otherwise why waste the power?)
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Post by laserman35 on Jul 16, 2013 12:16:14 GMT -5
Only problem with going very low with a sub is that it will introduce more cone noise.
When i installed car stereos years ago i always set a infrasonic filter to 30 and below. "no one ever complained"
I do like my bass shaker, when i turn it down enough to only feel it and not hear it.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jul 16, 2013 12:25:07 GMT -5
The EBP of that woofer is 60.3 so it's better suited for use in a ported alignment. Seal it and you will not get much low frequency output as the f3 cannot be lower than 43.9 Hz.
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Post by Gary Cook on Jul 16, 2013 21:39:04 GMT -5
I have a 17" sub in a DIY ported enclosure (one very large sucker, from memory 3.5' x 2' x 2' external) that is tuned for 20hz. I have had it for ~10 years and it's OK for music, but really shines for HT. It needs an Emotiva subwoofer amplifier (hint).
Cheers
Gary
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Post by mushroomking on Jul 17, 2013 6:22:19 GMT -5
+1 on a "pro" amp. Have you got room for a 45x45x24" cabinet? Not many subs can beat a gjallarhorn or 4!
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Post by phatfos1 on Jul 17, 2013 12:18:36 GMT -5
Once again, forgive my ignorance, very new to DIY... The Crown XTi 4002 only has XLR inputs. It appears to have some degree of EQ control onboard. How would I go about getting the sub signal from my Denon 3808ci AND would I need an outboard EQ for room correction etc? Or would the Denon and Audyssey do the trick?
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jul 17, 2013 13:12:12 GMT -5
The EQ and crossover functions in the Crown amps are pretty sophisticated and really not for a novice user. If you don't know how to use room measurement systems to adjust them, I recommend not buying that amp and getting something cheaper and simpler like a Behringer EP4000, then letting your receiver handle crossover and EQ functions. To connect to a pro amp you would use an RCA to XLR adapter, like one of these: www.musiciansfriend.com/search.jsp?sB=r&Ntt=rca+to+xlr+adapter |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jul 17, 2013 13:12:38 GMT -5
And by the way, are you still planning to mount that TC sounds driver in a sealed enclosure?
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ZrC
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Post by ZrC on Jul 17, 2013 13:15:37 GMT -5
Once again, forgive my ignorance, very new to DIY... The Crown XTi 4002 only has XLR inputs. It appears to have some degree of EQ control onboard. How would I go about getting the sub signal from my Denon 3808ci AND would I need an outboard EQ for room correction etc? Or would the Denon and Audyssey do the trick? You can get a RCA to XLR cable and it will work just fine (Amazon and Monoprice have them cheap). I would disable all the onboard EQ and let the Denon handle it. |
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traider79
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Post by traider79 on Jul 17, 2013 15:11:51 GMT -5
I have looked at some of the dual 5400 diy builds online and they look awesome! I see you are doing the single should still kick ass. If you do build it be sure to post a build thread if you can those are fun.
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Post by phatfos1 on Jul 17, 2013 19:19:03 GMT -5
Thanks so much for the suggestions. My research continues. I did notice concerns in the DIY corners of the net that indicated some of these pro Amps do in fact have poor sub 20hz performance (ie someone said the XTi 1000 from the precious generation was only putting out 50watts at 20hz!) Buying this level of sub I want to feed it good power. I guess it's super easy to upgrade an outboard amp though, so perhaps I should simply see what my results are with a more reasonably priced and less feature-rich alternative to the 4002. I appreciate the tips, everyone. I will certainly post a thread when the work starts. Just need to figure out exactly which components will go into it.
Also curious about finish options and others' thoughts on that topic. . I was thinking of having it professionally done high gloss black and wet sanded to match the rest of my Lsi towers. I was told I could get a very good finish for a few hundred dollars on a sealed box (getting conflicting suggestions on sealed v ported for this sub).
Well, I will keep looking for the perfect amp. I wish there was a hands-down perfect match for this beastly sub. There's just so many options. Playing below 20hz is very important to me because the PB Ultra does and it's at the same price point plus the ease integration is worth a fair amount.
Decisions.
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Post by phatfos1 on Jul 17, 2013 19:26:10 GMT -5
+1 on a "pro" amp. Have you got room for a 45x45x24" cabinet? Not many subs can beat a gjallarhorn or 4! Ha! 45x45 does hit the "are you kidding me" threshold with the lady. Told her about the potential SVS and she found a picture of the crate it comes in and laughed out loud. But wow is all I can say to the gjallar. Yes please. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2013 20:38:47 GMT -5
The ULTRA is best suited for a small 3-4 CF box with a ton of power. The box size needed for ported design is pretty big and not worth it. The ep amps (although great amps for the money) will not let this sub strut it's stuff. The crown XTi series are not the best choice either unless you go with at least the 4000 for the ultras. These sub have been used by tons of guys (Edogg has 4 powered by LG clones) These sub rock in small boxes with lots of power, thats the best way and the reason for this sub. Small box, lots of power, awesome sound. You coulld also buil;d the G-horn as someone as pointed out, that would equal about 3-4 ultras in their sealed boxes, I have 2 G-horns and be ready for some huge ass boxes hahaha. I would also like to point out Mach 5's UXL 18 or FTW 21 subs. Both can play in smallish 4-6 CF boxes and the UXL has 95% of the performance for half the cost. Plus they are made in Canada using North American materials (other than the kevlar cones and spyders) and hand built using american steel baskets and hand made VC's. The FTW 21's will exceed the ULTRA in most every way with slightly higher distortion when pushed to it's limits. As you can see I have quite a few of the FTW's and I give them 4000 watts each in their 5 CF boxes. The performance is hard to beat. My G-horns use the UXL 18's and I've got a few others in 3.5 CF boxes around the house. that being said, the ultra is still one of the best sub drivers on the market, though a high price vs others. www.istonline.ca/mach5_uxl_18.html The FTW's should be ready to go in a month or so. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Jul 18, 2013 2:01:23 GMT -5
OK, so I have a ported sub bias, always have. They are simple to construct for a DIY'r, unlike a GHorn, and for the same amp wattage will be louder than a sealed sub. The major disadvantage of ported is physical size when compared to a sealed sub. Getting past the majors, there are a seemingly endless list of pro's and cons of each design. Plenty base their decisions on pros and cons that others don't consider relevant. I power my current 17" sub with a 400 watt DIY amp (big power supply and capacitance)and it has more than enough grunt to shake the walls, move the floor, rattle the windows and be felt in the bone marrow. My next sub upgrade won't be the driver or the enclosure, the amp is the target (another hint for an Emotiva sub woofer amp).
Cheers
Gary
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