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Post by UT-Driven on Jan 2, 2009 2:28:00 GMT -5
I hooked up the RPA-1 this afternoon to my system. I have a Sony STR-DA3100 ES AV Receiver and I have been happy with the overall sound quality.
I have really sensitive hearing and can't listen to loud music for too long. I am not sure if this sensitivity helps me hear more details from a basic AVR or not.
Even though I was happy with the sound from the AVR for now, I ended up buying a RPA-1 from Audiogon in preparation for the UMC-1. My goal is to buy two more RPA-1s or RPA-2s for either 5 or 6 channel audio (not sure if I want to get a 6th speaker).
The Amp is very solidly built. I could not believe the build quality. The 5 way binding posts were much greater quality than I have been used to.
I listened to the following today:
The Peter Malick Group featuring Norah Jones - New York City (SACD)
Steely Dan - Gaucho (SACD)
Chicago and Earth, Wind and Fire at Greek Theater (HD-DVD)
Dave Koz - At the Movies (CD)
Salk Speaker Demo Disc (CD)
While it was not a night and day difference, I did notice a little improvement in the sound. The guitars sounded more natural and strings sounded more plucky. I would say that I could hear a more smooth sound overall.
I think that there could be multiple reasons for me not hearing a big difference. I am not listening at loud levels, the room is far from optimal as there are no acoustic treatments, the right side opens up to the rest of the condo, the Sony pre-amp section is limiting the improvement in quality (I only paid around $400 for it), or my sensitive hearing.
While listening, I was not able to make the needle move much. I had to really look at it to see it move. This was at -19 on the volume control. ;D
Also, the Salk SongTowers are excellent sounding speakers with 87 db sensitivity and 4ohm nominal impedance. They have excellent midrange and very good high presentation and the bass is good for a dual 5" transmission line design. They are not placed in the room ideally, since they are flanking my TV and are almost against the wall.
I would love to get some insight as to whether I should have heard more of a difference.
The other Doug
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Post by UT-Driven on Jan 12, 2009 16:28:35 GMT -5
I have been continuing my listening experience and am baffled by my experience. I really don't know what is causing the problem. I have created a series of 4 CDs by ripping my music to WAV and burning the tracks to CD. I am playing them in my Oppo 980H player and there seems to be a black hole when it comes to dynamics. The speakers are playing the music and the sound is great but it seems like there is no punch it is hard to describe. One exception was the song Gorillaz - Feel Good Inc... And there were some others that had some of the punch I would expect. Could this be psychosomatic after hearing that the XPA amps are more dynamic? It seems like the receiver sounded more dynamic than what I heard here. The speakers I have are a finesse speaker that specialize in midrange and treble, but the bass is through 2 5" drivers in a transmission line design. Is the combination of 2 finesse products causing this? Some of the music in the CDs are: Old Chicago The Pretenders The Cardigans Aldo Nova Robert Plant Boston Cowboy Junkies Sarah McLachlan While not the most dynamic, it seems like the dynamics are gone.  The other Doug |
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arctikdeth
Emo VIPs 
Metal Thrashing Mad
Posts: 308
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Post by arctikdeth on Jan 12, 2009 16:39:30 GMT -5
i thought the ripped stuff loses its compression during playback. mp3 files and such lose their OOOOOMMPPHHH during transfer.....NO?...?
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Post by UT-Driven on Jan 12, 2009 16:43:21 GMT -5
i thought the ripped stuff loses its compression during playback. mp3 files and such lose their OOOOOMMPPHHH during transfer.....NO?...? When you rip it, I can't see the music getting compressed. If I recall, you are pretty much writing it as LPCM with header information that allows a PC to play it back. It is not a compressed format size-wise. If you rip to MP3, then sure it will be compressed as lossy and the music (and file size) will be compressed. The other Doug |
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Post by EmoBlue (Jack) on Jan 12, 2009 17:52:55 GMT -5
Doug: A CD-to-WAV-to-CD burn shouldn't have any compression artifacts, but sometimes the ripping software introduces noise. I don't think this is your problem, but I wouldn't ignore it altogether. It'd be good to play a tight commercial CD just to make sure. The preamp can definitely change the sound, but since it is the same preamp you're using with the receiver's amp, this is virtually moot. A good way to test out the dynamic question is to find a local Emo XPA owner and give one a whirl. It just may be possible that you're an XPA-type without even knowing it.  |
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Post by UT-Driven on Jan 12, 2009 17:58:50 GMT -5
Doug: A CD-to-WAV-to-CD burn shouldn't have any compression artifacts, but sometimes the ripping software introduces noise. I don't think this is your problem, but I wouldn't ignore it altogether. It'd be good to play a tight commercial CD just to make sure. The preamp can definitely change the sound, but since it is the same preamp you're using with the receiver's amp, this is virtually moot. A good way to test out the dynamic question is to find a local Emo XPA owner and give one a whirl. It just may be possible that you're an XPA-type without even knowing it. No, you can't have my RPA-1! Hehe. Thanks for your reply. I am toying with the idea of getting an XPA-3 with the sale since it is a really affordable 5.1 setup, but I really wanted to go all RPA-1s. The other Doug |
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Post by EmoBlue (Jack) on Jan 12, 2009 23:20:30 GMT -5
No, you can't have my RPA-1! Hehe. It's almost as if you're clairvoyant! ;D I am toying with the idea of getting an XPA-3... Actually, I've been considering the same thing, of sorts. Since I plan to get some SL3s or Aerius' for the sides at some point, I thought I might pickup an XPA-5 sometime then, using an external gain control between the pre and the amp (to match gain differentials), use four of the XPA-5s channels to biamp the woofs in the MartinLogans. The one thing that kicked my butt about the XPA-2 was it's bass. It'd be a tough balance, but doable. You know, I could test this theory with the (otherwise useless) Onkyo Integra M-506RS that is currently functioning as a door stop with huge meters.  Or I could just get the 212 sub and be done with it. EDIT: grammar. |
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Post by UT-Driven on Jan 13, 2009 12:58:35 GMT -5
There are just so many variables that can affect the issue that I am seeing. I wish I could put a finger on it. The main thing keeping me from getting an XPA-3 now is that I have both the UMC-1 and ERC-1 on pre-order now and I need to control my spending since my house is on the market and I will be buying another house as soon as it is sold.
I would really like to try an XPA-2 to see if that helps with my speakers, but I surely don't want to pay shipping to test the theory. I guess when I move, I will be able to work on it more, since I will have a new processor, new source, bigger room to move speakers to a better location, etc...
The other Doug
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Post by bigred7078 on Jan 13, 2009 13:37:17 GMT -5
well like i have said before the RPA-1 doesnt have the punch that the XPA's provide. My XPA-3 certainly provides much more punch, but i find the clarity to just be much better with the RPA-1's for 2-channel music. For HT i really cant tell a difference.
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Post by roadrunner on Jan 21, 2009 0:46:10 GMT -5
utdriven You are absolutely right... you have several variables all working against you in hearing the dynamic punch you were expecting. First, your speakers are famous for two things, one being world class smoothness in the midrange. Unfortunately, the other thing they are famous for is total lack in the low end. They roll off very quickly from about 60 Hz. Hard to feel that dynamic punch without better lows than that.  Another issue is that ripping CDs and maintaining their dynamic range can be very difficult because digital sound recording does not have very forgiving behavour when approaching or exceeding its clipping point. In comparison, analog recording is very forgiving when exceeding the clipping point. With analog you get away with moderate levels of clipping with little to no loss in dynamics and sound quality... not so with digital recording. It takes considerably better equipment, hardware and software, to achieve good results ripping digital media. Otherwise, once you reach the clipping point you either get distortion or nothing. There is absolutely no forgiveness and no graceful dropoff of the recorded signal (like analog gives). If these issues weren't bad enough, you have made no mention about acoustic treatment for your listening room or mention about speaker placement tweaking. Each and every one of these problems are additive in nature. Would using an XPA amp improve the problem you have with your ripped media problem? Maybe a little, but not that much. However, with better quality media, the XPAs would likely give you noticeably improved "punch" to your music. But... due to your speakers' total lack of low end output, even the XPA may be disappointing to you. I suspect you bought those speakers and selected the RPA amp because you were looking for the best SQ you can get. There are trade offs to most everything in life and audio is no different. If you are like me, I am more than willing to give up a little "slam" in return for all the benefits the RPA amps afford you... in spades!! I hope that helps with some of the "buyers remorse" you are feeling.  ;D ;D Just enjoy the great sounds you are hearing. |
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Post by UT-Driven on Jan 21, 2009 3:12:17 GMT -5
utdriven You are absolutely right... you have several variables all working against you in hearing the dynamic punch you were expecting. First, your speakers are famous for two things, one being world class smoothness in the midrange. Unfortunately, the other thing they are famous for is total lack in the low end. They roll off very quickly from about 60 Hz. Hard to feel that dynamic punch without better lows than that. Another issue is that ripping CDs and maintaining their dynamic range can be very difficult because digital sound recording does not have very forgiving behavour when approaching or exceeding its clipping point. In comparison, analog recording is very forgiving when exceeding the clipping point. With analog you get away with moderate levels of clipping with little to no loss in dynamics and sound quality... not so with digital recording. It takes considerably better equipment, hardware and software, to achieve good results ripping digital media. Otherwise, once you reach the clipping point you either get distortion or nothing. There is absolutely no forgiveness and no graceful dropoff of the recorded signal (like analog gives). If these issues weren't bad enough, you have made no mention about acoustic treatment for your listening room or mention about speaker placement tweaking. Each and every one of these problems are additive in nature. Would using an XPA amp improve the problem you have with your ripped media problem? Maybe a little, but not that much. However, with better quality media, the XPAs would likely give you noticeably improved "punch" to your music. But... due to your speakers' total lack of low end output, even the XPA may be disappointing to you. I suspect you bought those speakers and selected the RPA amp because you were looking for the best SQ you can get. There are trade offs to most everything in life and audio is no different. If you are like me, I am more than willing to give up a little "slam" in return for all the benefits the RPA amps afford you... in spades!! I hope that helps with some of the "buyers remorse" you are feeling. ;D ;D Just enjoy the great sounds you are hearing. I didn't understand what you are referring to concerning ripping CDs and preserving their dynamic range. I would have expected that the ripping process would not alter it (I am ripping to WAV, not MP3). Speaker placement is less than ideal and I don't have anywhere to go with them. I have 1,000 square feet worth of stuff and a 621 square foot condo to place it in. ;D I also don't have any acoustic treatments as I am moving out of the condo as soon as I possibly can. I believe that you are right on many points. The speakers do have challenges with some bass reproduction and pairing it with the RPA-1 will not offer as much dynamics as the XPAs would. The sources are the main "source" of my problems. I have listened to the Diana Krall - Live in Paris DVD, Gaucho SACD, Gorillaz CD, Jennifer Warnes CDs, etc... and have had a good experience with the bass presentation. It is highly related to the sources I use. I will try the release CDs to see if they sound noticeably better than the ripped and burned CD compilation. I will be receiving my turntable in a few days and my Cambridge 540P phono preamp by Monday, so I will be able to see how this affects it also. SQ is the reason for the combination. I don't have any buyer's remorse, per se but want to determine where the problems are. Thanks for the reply. The other Doug |
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Post by EmoBlue (Jack) on Jan 21, 2009 14:52:10 GMT -5
If your speakers roll off steeply at 60Hz, roadrunner is right, the XPA-2 won't help much. With low end that high, you really need a sealed sub that maintains a clean output to 80Hz, or so. Once you move, you should have the room to go that way and/or replace your mains.
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Post by UT-Driven on Jan 21, 2009 16:09:15 GMT -5
If your speakers roll off steeply at 60Hz, roadrunner is right, the XPA-2 won't help much. With low end that high, you really need a sealed sub that maintains a clean output to 80Hz, or so. Once you move, you should have the room to go that way and/or replace your mains. I am thinking of either the HSU 15 or a Rythmic sub. I thought about adding the Mid Bass Module from HSU too. The speakers are too nice to replace. I would have to spend quite a lot to have a similar mid and highs and improved bass. The other Doug |
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Post by bigred7078 on Jan 21, 2009 16:23:22 GMT -5
If your speakers roll off steeply at 60Hz, roadrunner is right, the XPA-2 won't help much. With low end that high, you really need a sealed sub that maintains a clean output to 80Hz, or so. Once you move, you should have the room to go that way and/or replace your mains. I am thinking of either the HSU 15 or a Rythmic sub. I thought about adding the Mid Bass Module from HSU too. The speakers are too nice to replace. I would have to spend quite a lot to have a similar mid and highs and improved bass. The other Doug For a small apartment i would look into one of the small sunfire subs or a smaller REL. These are known to be highly musical subs. Check out Audiogon for awesome used deals, it will save you ALOT of money and the majority of equipment on that site is in tip top shape. |
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Post by UT-Driven on Jan 21, 2009 18:38:55 GMT -5
I am thinking of either the HSU 15 or a Rythmic sub. I thought about adding the Mid Bass Module from HSU too. The speakers are too nice to replace. I would have to spend quite a lot to have a similar mid and highs and improved bass. The other Doug For a small apartment i would look into one of the small sunfire subs or a smaller REL. These are known to be highly musical subs. Check out Audiogon for awesome used deals, it will save you ALOT of money and the majority of equipment on that site is in tip top shape. I am buying a 2,500 sf.+ house as soon as I can get a buyer for my house. I will have a dedicated movie theater/music room. The small condo is just for the time being. I bought the RPA-1 and Cambridge 540P Phono Pre on Audiogon. =) I have an ~8-10 year old Energy 10" sub (I think it is sealed). It is in the very corner behind my TV and it is not easily accessible. I think that it sounds pretty good for music. It is probably a 3 on the 10 scale for HT duties though. The other Doug |
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