New amp for my Onkyo TX-NR809 and M&K 750 speakers

[ander0202]

Ok, So I am completely new to this and I have been searching all over the threads to figure out what I should do. I have a onkyo TX-NR809 receiver and 5 M&K 750THX speakers (original before M&K went out of business) They are 4 ohm speakers. I was told that getting a external amp would make my home theater sound so much better. Cleaner, more crisp, powerful..... I honestly don't have a clue if it would make that big a difference. I know that the 809 is 135 watts when 2 channels are driven. Not sure when 5 are driven. I was also told that "generally" all 5 channels don't need all the power at the same time(does not make any sense to me) Can anyone give me some solid advice? Should I get a emotiva amp and if so which one?

Thanks

[brubacca]

XPA-5 is what you need.

It will improve dynamics, air, imaging and control. You will be amazed at the difference a separate amp makes.

I own an onkyo receiver that I don't use anymore because the amp section is anemic in comparison to a separate amp.

[mshump]

Aug 30, 2013 15:57:59 GMT -5 ander0202 said:

Ok, So I am completely new to this and I have been searching all over the threads to figure out what I should do. I have a onkyo TX-NR809 receiver and 5 M&K 750THX speakers (original before M&K went out of business) They are 4 ohm speakers. I was told that getting a external amp would make my home theater sound so much better. Cleaner, more crisp, powerful..... I honestly don't have a clue if it would make that big a difference. I know that the 809 is 135 watts when 2 channels are driven. Not sure when 5 are driven. I was also told that "generally" all 5 channels don't need all the power at the same time(does not make any sense to me) Can anyone give me some solid advice? Should I get a emotiva amp and if so which one?

Thanks

Yes there is quite a difference when adding an AMP. I had an ONKYO Tx-SR805 and added a 2 channel Parasound HCA 1000 for the LR and was amazed at the difference, I then replaced the Parasound with a Emotiva XPA3 for the LCR and UPA 200 for the rears, and the sound quality was again great. The Emotiva amps are very robust and IMO very articulate. The sound difference is : You hear more of the music, better separation of instruments, vocals, more openness, etc. Emotiva has many different Amps available, Which one you buy is mostly up to you. I went with the XPA 3 up front so if I later want to upgrade to Mono blocks then the XPA could run my center and surrounds.

You need to consider:

How much you can afford or are willing to spend (any of the emotiva UPA, XPA. or XPR series would be an upgrade. If you want more headroom for loud passages etc then look at the XPA or XPR series, The UPA is great but if you can chunk out a little more cash in the beginning you get a little more power

What combination of amps do you want in case you get Upgradeitis ! (That seems to happen quite a bit in this community) Is totally up to you. BTW there is a 10% off sale going on now until next Thursday.

[garbulky]

I feel amps and source components make a good difference and usually I would be the frst telling you spend WAY more as you won't regret it on emo amps.
But at this stage I would perhaps get different speakers.
Having said that. YES. Amps do make a difference.
But I wonder if it's worth to send 1k on an amp to power speakers that don't cost as much as the amp. Go for the best emo amp you can afford but only if you plan on upgrading the other stuff. Even a UPA-500 would be a very nice purchase for a nice middle ground.

[Deleted]

You have 5 excellent speakers.  They are designed in the THX theory, 5 speakers that go down to 80Hz at -3dBs' and then the lower bass sound transfers to a subwoofer or two.  You must have a subwoofer with these speaker, and preferably a very good one.  there are ones in the $500 range and up from online direct firms that would be a good match.

Yes, it is correct that the 2 surround channels don't normally take as much power as the front 3 LCR channels.  There is almost always less volume in the surround channels.  Normally, maybe 1/2 the power is just fine.  The problem with having two amps, one 3 channel for the front LCR and one 2 channel for the surrounds is together they can cost as much or more than just one 5 channel amp.  So the recommendation above for the 5 channel XPA-5 Emo amp is a very good one.  Emo now has the Generation 2 model of the XPA-5 and it is even more quiet.  One of the advantages of having a small bookshelf like the M&K LCR-750THX along with an excellent sub is that the 5 speakers only reproduce down to about 80Hz.  That means they don't require as much power as tower speakers that play lower if not crossed over to a sub.  Low bass takes more power than any other frequencies (mids and highs).  Having a sub from 80Hz down, takes some power requirements from the main LCR's.

Your Onkyo is very good quality but does not have the power that 805 did (mentoned above), especially into 4 ohms or with all 5 channels operating into 8 ohms.  That said, a high quality separate amp like the XPA-5 will put out about 300 watts into 4 ohms with all channels operating.  That is a huge significant increase from the Onkyo Receiver which might even shut down with 5 channels operating at reference levels into 4 ohms.  The 809 probably puts out about 100 watts RMS into 8 ohms with all 5 channels operating (at 4 ohms it will probably go into protection mode after several seconds).  Some will point out that the review test measurements are at RMS (continuous) power and that in actual use, continuous power into all five channels is never required. That is true but the RMS power tests with all channels operating (not just two channels) into 8 ohms and more importantly into 4 ohms (many 8 ohm rated speakers are actually 6 and 4 ohms) is a level playing field to be able to compare the relative strength and stability of different amps.

One important thing you have not mentioned is anything about your room dimensions, sound absorption materials in your room and how loud you like to play your system.  Without that specific information we can only give you a rough recommendation as to which Emo amp(s) would be best for your system.  A 12' x 15' room with 8' ceilings, bare floors, no drapes or soft furniture and below reference playback levels will not take nearly as much power as in a 15' x 24' room with cathedral ceilings, w/w carpeting, drapes and fabric furniture at occasionally very loud levels.  One size amp does not fit all.  

That said, the XPA-5 would in many cases be an excellent choice.  With a very small room and not so loud volumes, you might even get by with the UPA-500 amp which is still completely stable into 4 ohms at about 120 watts.  I have an Emo 4 ohm speakers that are very close in size and performance to the M&K 750 along with a large sub.  The 5 channel sound for both music and movies in my room is great!

 

[vcautokid]

I agree the XPA-3 will give you the most realized performance up front where the action and dynamics are. A UPA-200 is great for the surrounds later. I am considering an XPA-3 too considering how much I love my XPA-2 in my other rig!

[ander0202]

Thanks for the responses.

To answer some of the questions. Yes, I have subs. I have 2 M&K 105's. The are so powerful that I have them turned down very low. This is my tv area in my basement. It is 26 feet long and 14 feet wide. Typical drywall walls and plush carpet for 2/3 of the floor. The back 1/3 is hardwood where I have  a bar with a 60" panasonic plasma and a couple emotiva 8.2 in ceiling on the 2nd zone of the onkyo. My couch is 15 feet back from the main panasonic 65" plasma and I have the M&K center just below it and the front 2 speakers 4 feet from each side of the tv. the surround are mounted to the sides of the couch on the wall with them angled down to the center of the couch.

Overall I love the speakers, not the best for music, but for movies and tv (95% of the time) the are amazing. I'm just hoping that getting a additional amp will make it sound just that much better

[garbulky]

It's an easy choice then. Any of the emo 5 channel amps will satisfy you (UPA-500, XPA-5). Also don't be shy about used emo amps. Transferrable warranty.

[ander0202]

Will the upa-500 be enough power? I like the price more, but I am afraid I will not see a huge difference. You all are the pro's at this so I enjoy the advice. Is it work the extra 600? 

[bootman]

Buy a used XPA-5.
Any remaining warranty transfers over to you.
Have you checked out the emporium?

[jt357]

ander0202,

As irony would have it, not only do I have the same speakers as my LCR, I also have the SS-150THX for my L/R sides and the SS-550THX L/R back. Our room dimensions are almost identical. And I went from powering the M&K750THX with a Pioneer VSX-27THX (IIRC is around 120w @6ohm)to using an Emotiva LPA-1 amplifier to power my system.

The interesting thing here is, I didn't have the money to purchase a pre/pro at the time so, I continued to use the Pioneer for that duty. This allowed me to really hear if the LPA-1 made a difference with the M&K's.

I noticed two things right from the start, a new level of detail and better dynamics near and at reference level playback. I would always hear a little strain with the VSX-27THX at those levels but not with the Emotiva. I also use an SVS-20-39cs to fill in the below 80Hz stuff.

I have since moved on from the Pioneer and now use a Emotiva UMC-1. Matched with the LPA-1 movies and music are extremely satisfying. So IMO, with your room size, if you play at or near reference levels, an outboard amp in the 200w range or higher should make a difference. In the end, only you can say for sure. And honestly, I could have been just happy with the Pioneer below those levels. In a smaller room, I probably would have used it until it died as I really do like the sound quality below those levels even if slightly veiled by comparison.