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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 8, 2013 17:10:56 GMT -5
Well, consider this a very preliminary evaluation vs. an in-depth review. I got my Emotiva Pro Stealth DAC-1 today from a gent on Audiogon. Everything works as advertised. The relatively straightforward setup and a clear owner's manual impressed me immediately.
After warming up the DAC for about 20 minutes, I sat down to give it a critical listen. The system was as follows: iTunes based CD rips feeding an Apple Airport Express via ethernet. The TOSLINK output of the Express went to the Stealth DAC. Balanced 1-meter interconnects coupled the Stealth DAC to my Emotiva XPA-2 power amp. Kimber Kable 12TC speaker wires (about 9-feet) fed the Definitive Technology SM65 speakers.
First, the things that I think that the Stealth does better than the Jolida:
The Stealth is the most articulate device in the midrange that I've yet heard. With very complex instrumental lines swirling about each other, the Stealth allows you to hear and follow each individual thread. This separation allows the most complex music to be "laid bare" before your ears. I've yet to hear another device that can do this as well as the Stealth.
Second, the things that are toss-ups between the Stealth and the Jolida:
The Jolida has a very slightly "fatter" bass sound than does the Stealth. Both DACs are equally extended, but the Stealth is just a tad leaner. Some music favors the Jolida, other music the Stealth.
Initially, I thought that the Jolida's top end was a bit more airy and extended than with the Stealth, but then (after the listening session) I noticed that the iTunes equalizer was still set as I had it for the (previous) Definitive Technology BP-2004 towers. The slider for the 8 KHz band was recessed by about 3 decibels. I'll listen again tomorrow with everything flat and see how the treble sounds then.
And finally, Stealth "annoyances" - The remote volume control for the Stealth is just too darn touchy. A small press on the "volume up" key can blow you out of the room. A small press on the "volume down" key frequently causes you to immediately go back to the up key to compensate. If I had to pick a single feature of the Stealth that I find substandard, this would be it. Maybe I'm just in a twitchy patch on the volume control. I'll try turning down the digital volume in iTunes to see if I can get it to work better.
So far, I rate the Stealth as a serious contender for "best DAC I've heard." I'll have to listen some more later this week to get the true measure of the DAC, but it surely is promising-sounding so far.
Bravo Emotiva!
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boog
Minor Hero
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Post by boog on Oct 8, 2013 17:50:36 GMT -5
Hi Boomzilla,
Congrats on your latest acquisition! In your initial listening, with respect to soundstage depth, how would you characterize the DC-1? Did it first come off as noticeably deep or forward? I'll be married to my Def.Tech 2004's for the next while and would like to put a DC-1 beside my Squeezebox Touch.
Boog
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 8, 2013 18:07:53 GMT -5
Hi Boomzilla, Congrats on your latest acquisition! In your initial listening, with respect to soundstage depth, how would you characterize the DC-1? Did it first come off as noticeably deep or forward? I'll be married to my Def.Tech 2004's for the next while and would like to put a DC-1 beside my Squeezebox Touch. Boog Hi Boog - I can't say yet. Since the equalizer was interfering with the sound, and since I had some braided speaker wires on the rig (which usually "soften" the highs a bit), I can't rightly say. I can say that the Jolida Glass FX is the absolute best I've yet heard so far for imaging, but based on the midrange articulation of the Stealth, it has a chance of being there too. I'm going out for a birthday supper tonight, but I'll listen a bit more tomorrow with some Morrow Bi-Wire cables and with the iTunes equalizer turned off. THEN we'll hear! |
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Post by brubacca on Oct 8, 2013 18:14:24 GMT -5
Happy Birthday.
You may want to enable Asynchronous mode on the stealth. The APE is notorious for having a high amount of jitter.
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 8, 2013 18:19:14 GMT -5
Already done, thanks. I've got REALLY high expectations for the Stealth. Tomorrow should be a better test.
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boog
Minor Hero
Posts: 39
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Post by boog on Oct 8, 2013 19:53:37 GMT -5
Thanks Boomzilla, I'll be following your input closely on this one, and yes... Happy Birthday!
Boog
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 9, 2013 17:30:41 GMT -5
Round two -
I set the iTunes equalizer to "off." I got the KimberKable out of the mix & threw in some Morrow Audio bi-wire cables. I listened.
The Stealth DAC is the lightest and sweetest unit I've heard. It makes female voices absolutely stunning. The treble of the Stealth sounds more extended than that of the Jolida Glass FX. The midrange of the Stealth is the most analytical I've heard (and I don't mean that in a bad way). The midrange allows you to hear very, very complicated vocal, instrumental, or orchestral mixes and pick out each and every voice/instrument/section. The bass of the Stealth is clearer than that of the Jolida.
That said, the Stealth is not quite so kind to male voices as it is to higher-register singers. It is as if the male singers aren't quite as loud (in relation to the instruments) as are the females. This steals some of the illusion of a live performance. The Stealth also has very good center image, but not so broad or deep a sound stage as the Jolida. As I've said previously, the Jolida has a more tactile bass sound than the Stealth, although the Stealth is more resolving of bass detail.
Tomorrow, I'm going to audition the Stealth DAC again, and this time with the setup that has previously yielded the best sound in my room. I'll replace the XPA-2 with a pair of stereo Crown PS-400 amplifiers. The amps will vertically bi-amplify the speakers using the "long interconnect + short speaker wire" model. I'll post my impressions of that setup also.
Finally (sometime later in the week), I'll try using a switch box to change between the Jolida & Stealth DACs. That will be the acid test as to whether I keep the Jolida or the Stealth. Stay tuned...
Boomzilla
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Post by garbulky on Oct 9, 2013 19:02:20 GMT -5
Liking the reviews. just a note - a switch box can introduce its own sound - even if it's not supposed to.
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jlafrenz
Global Moderator 
I don't want to jump in, unless this music's thumping
Posts: 7,722
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Post by jlafrenz on Oct 9, 2013 19:21:37 GMT -5
Round two - I set the iTunes equalizer to "off." I got the KimberKable out of the mix & threw in some Morrow Audio bi-wire cables. I listened. The Stealth DAC is the lightest and sweetest unit I've heard. It makes female voices absolutely stunning. The treble of the Stealth sounds more extended than that of the Jolida Glass FX. The midrange of the Stealth is the most analytical I've heard (and I don't mean that in a bad way). The midrange allows you to hear very, very complicated vocal, instrumental, or orchestral mixes and pick out each and every voice/instrument/section. The bass of the Stealth is clearer than that of the Jolida. That said, the Stealth is not quite so kind to male voices as it is to higher-register singers. It is as if the male singers aren't quite as loud (in relation to the instruments) as are the females. This steals some of the illusion of a live performance. The Stealth also has very good center image, but not so broad or deep a sound stage as the Jolida. As I've said previously, the Jolida has a more tactile bass sound than the Stealth, although the Stealth is more resolving of bass detail. Tomorrow, I'm going to audition the Stealth DAC again, and this time with the setup that has previously yielded the best sound in my room. I'll replace the XPA-2 with a pair of stereo Crown PS-400 amplifiers. The amps will vertically bi-amplify the speakers using the "long interconnect + short speaker wire" model. I'll post my impressions of that setup also. Finally (sometime later in the week), I'll try using a switch box to change between the Jolida & Stealth DACs. That will be the acid test as to whether I keep the Jolida or the Stealth. Stay tuned... Boomzilla I don't seem to have the same issue with male vocals as you are having. I do notice it on some tracks, but it seems to be more track dependent than male vs. female. I have said in all my reviews how well the DC-1 does with the depth of the sound and how I am impressed with it. I didn't get that when I owned the Jolida DAC. This was quite some time ago so it is strictly from memory. I have also worked a lot on the placement and panels in my 2 channel room. I wish I still had the Jolida to give a try with the new placement. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 9, 2013 19:37:35 GMT -5
The Stealth isn't bad on dimensionality - and once the Crowns are in place, it may prove significantly better. How old was your Jolida DAC? Mine is the latest (version 3). With the Stealth in my system, my rig sounds very much like Garbulky's - delicate. This is a cool effect on acoustic music, but it lacks verisimilitude with grunge like, for example, George Thorogood & The Destroyers or Reverend Horton Heat. The next iteration of the system will tell the story. Once the Crown amps are directly coupled to the speakers, the soundstage should open up significantly. For some reason, my DefTech SM65 speakers don't seem to like being jumpered - they really like separate connections to the woofer & tweeter from the amp. Even better than bi-wiring, though, they do their best vertically bi-amplified. Why I do not know, but it is definitely so.
The male vocals are a constant through numerous tracks so far. Again, this may be amplifier, speaker wire, or DAC dependent. Once the system is set up as it has performed the best previously, the only remaining variable will be the DAC. THEN we'll be able to hear if there are differences. Once tweaked as good as it gets, I'm going to invite Garbulky & Mrs. to come listen. They hear live music (and acoustic music) far more frequently than I (she's a music teacher). They can say more authoritatively whether the Stealth is better or not.
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Post by garbulky on Oct 9, 2013 19:42:12 GMT -5
Also if the XDA-1 (and the UPA-2) is anything to go by, the sound "warms up" and gets fuller the longer it's left on. I reccomend a few days of it left on. Music does not have to play during this time.
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jlafrenz
Global Moderator
I don't want to jump in, unless this music's thumping
Posts: 7,722
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Post by jlafrenz on Oct 9, 2013 19:59:05 GMT -5
The Stealth isn't bad on dimensionality - and once the Crowns are in place, it may prove significantly better. How old was your Jolida DAC? Mine is the latest (version 3). With the Stealth in my system, my rig sounds very much like Garbulky's - delicate. This is a cool effect on acoustic music, but it lacks verisimilitude with grunge like, for example, George Thorogood & The Destroyers or Reverend Horton Heat. The next iteration of the system will tell the story. Once the Crown amps are directly coupled to the speakers, the soundstage should open up significantly. For some reason, my DefTech SM65 speakers don't seem to like being jumpered - they really like separate connections to the woofer & tweeter from the amp. Even better than bi-wiring, though, they do their best vertically bi-amplified. Why I do not know, but it is definitely so. The male vocals are a constant through numerous tracks so far. Again, this may be amplifier, speaker wire, or DAC dependent. Once the system is set up as it has performed the best previously, the only remaining variable will be the DAC. THEN we'll be able to hear if there are differences. Once tweaked as good as it gets, I'm going to invite Garbulky & Mrs. to come listen. They hear live music (and acoustic music) far more frequently than I (she's a music teacher). They can say more authoritatively whether the Stealth is better or not. I had the Jolida DAC when it first came out. I did try a couple different types of tubes in it. I think they were Sylvania, but can't remember for sure. I do listen to a lot more acoustic style music. If I get a chance in the next couple of days I will try more rock music and see if I have the same findings as you. Garbulky, I too noticed that the DC-1 benefited from being on for a while. I asked Emotiva about this and they said it shouldn't have any impact on the sound as it wasn't any intention with the design. I still have been letting it warm up with my tube amp before I have been doing any critical listening or comparisons. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 9, 2013 23:52:13 GMT -5
Warm up helps, IMHO, but it also happens quickly. Fifteen to 20 minutes into a session, the system sounds as open as it's going to. Whether I'm hearing a change in the source, the DAC, or the power amps, I can't say.
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 10, 2013 16:35:31 GMT -5
OK - Having spent some time with the Stealth DC-1 and the system in "formerly sounded best" configuration, here are my conclusions (for what they're worth):
The Stealth is a world-class DAC for a bargain price (almost goes without saying since it's Emotiva). It does some things better than I've ever heard before. Highs are sweet without being too soft. This isn't a trivial thing. Many systems I've heard have very extended high frequency response but sound harsh, grainy, or spitty. With the Stealth, the highs are natural, extended, and properly integrated into the sound stage. This is rare...
The Stealth has an upper midrange to die for. The resolution exceeds anything I've previously heard. Complex, intertwined musical lines are very easy to follow without any blurring. Female voices are airy and almost painfully pure. Some of the female vocalists that I previously yawned at made me sit up in my seat and listen when played through the Stealth DAC. Keep in mind that ALL the music I'm listening to here is 44.1 CD rips played over iTunes and via the optical output of an Apple Airport Express. If you're an acoustic music or chamber orchestra type of guy, you absolutely MUST hear the Stealth DAC!
In the lower midrange to upper bass is the sole area where I might pick nits with the Stealth. Male voices are not visceral sounding via the Stealth. They don't have the weight to make you think that the singer is in the room with you. Don't think that the Stealth has bad performance, or is even recessed-sounding here, it isn't. It's just that I've heard better. So instead of an A+ for this region, the Stealth gets a B. Still no slouch...
The intermediate to lower bass is another standout area for the Stealth. Given an acoustic bass, not only do you get the thumb sound leaving the string, you also get the resonance of the wood. The Stealth resolves complicated bass lines better than any other DAC I've heard (which is, currently, about a half dozen or so). The low bass seems to be there without any reduction as well. Putting on a synthesizer or organ piece (or DJ Magic Mike, if your preferences go in that direction), you won't lack for rattle in the other rooms from the bass waves. The Stealth can pressurize your chest along with the best.
So what doesn't the Stealth do so well? The biggest shortcoming, IMHO, is the lack of a deep & wide soundstage that allows you to "hear into" the original acoustic of the recording (if such ambience is present). The Jolida floats an entire world in front of you where you can hear to the back of the stage, and beyond the edges of the speakers. The Stealth, not so much. Don't get me wrong, there IS some of the sharpest center imaging I've heard using the Stealth, but still not so deep or so wide as I've heard with the Jolida. The Stealth puts the singer directly between the speakers with a miniaturized band around the microphone out to the physical location of the speakers. To my ears, the speakers don't "disappear as sound sources" so much as they do with the Jolida. There's right, left, center, and filled-up spaces between them with the Stealth. With the Jolida, there's just a sonic hologram (with apologies to Bob Carver) that stretches not only beyond the speakers but sometimes beyond the room walls.
So which am I going to keep, the Jolida or the Stealth. This is not an easy decision by any means... The Stealth's features alone make it the better bargain. The Stealth has an analog input, the Jolida doesn't. The Stealth has balanced outputs, the Jolida doesn't. The Stealth has asynchronous mode, the Jolida (to the best of my knowledge) doesn't. The Stealth has an analog volume control, the Jolida doesn't. The Stealth has remote control, the Jolida doesn't. Yet both DACs are fairly close in price, and neither exceeds $1,000.
The decision would tilt depending on what sonic properties you value. If detail rather than imaging is your priority, then the Stealth is for you. If imaging is your preference, then the Jolida wins. I'm not yet ready to make a choice. I've heard the Stealth with conventional cone-and-box speakers, but have yet to hear it with a planar speaker. When my Magnepan 1.6s arrive, I'll update this thread based on listening with those (very different) speakers. In the meantime, if Garbulky would like to borrow the Stealth I'd be interested in hearing his opinions of it too. Gar?
So there you have it. The unassuming Stealth has fought the Jolida to a virtual tie. Who would have thought?
Cheers - Boomzilla
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Post by garbulky on Oct 10, 2013 17:09:40 GMT -5
In the meantime, if Garbulky would like to borrow the Stealth I'd be interested in hearing his opinions of it too. Gar? Would I like to borrow the Stealth he said. WOULD I LIKE TO BORROW THE STEALTH he said.   |
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 10, 2013 18:30:30 GMT -5
OK, Gar, but you have to come get it. I might force you to listen to Norah Jones on my rig before you haul it off, though. Also, when the Maggies arrive, I want the Stealth back pronto!
Cheers - Boom
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Post by GreenKiwi on Oct 10, 2013 20:00:09 GMT -5
Did I read it correctly that you're getting yourself some mg 1.6s to try out?!?!?
Quite a birthday!
I can't wait to see what you think of those.
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 11, 2013 2:32:35 GMT -5
The Maggie 1.6 deal is still a "maybe." I'll believe it when the speakers are here. Until then, I can be patient.
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,140
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Post by KeithL on Oct 11, 2013 9:41:29 GMT -5
First let me say that I'm glad you like the DC-1 (and I agree with everything you've said about it). I'm going to ask an interesting question.... that you won't be able to answer (that's actually a line from an album; but I'll bet nobody knows which one  ). However, when we get into the world of tubes, and especially tube DACs, it's a legitimate ones. You describe the Jolida as having (to paraphrase) a "larger/deeper/wider sound stage" and that sound stage being "more like the original". My question is simple: since neither of us was there at the original performance, how do you know which one is right? (My suspicion is that the tube stage is introducing a tiny bit of phase error which makes the sound stage seem deeper and wider, and you're just assuming that it's "more like the original". I also suspect that the "visceral sound" on male vocals is a slight boost in the lower midrange; possibly combined with a little added second harmonic distortion - which is known to make voices sound "punchier" and "clearer". I'm not at all singling out the Jolida; I think this is a characteristic of all "good" tube equipment, and is what people like about it.) In other words, my guess here is that the Jolida is introducing a tiny bit of coloration (and that coloration sounds nice on some content, and not so nice on others). Since most modern recordings are downright multi-tracked, or recorded live, with multi-track editing afterwards, a lot of them don't have a good sound stage to begin with; if individual instruments were recorded at different times, or you mix content from a close-mic and a distant one for one instrument, you can end up with an odd and "unnatural" result - in terms of sound stage - in the final mix (if you're the sort that notices that kind of thing). I suspect that, in such cases, tubes may often do the equivalent of what a soft focus filter does to make harshly lit portraits look "softer and more natural"; which is pleasant, but also technically artificial. OK - Having spent some time with the Stealth DC-1 and the system in "formerly sounded best" configuration, here are my conclusions (for what they're worth): The Stealth is a world-class DAC for a bargain price (almost goes without saying since it's Emotiva). It does some things better than I've ever heard before. Highs are sweet without being too soft. This isn't a trivial thing. Many systems I've heard have very extended high frequency response but sound harsh, grainy, or spitty. With the Stealth, the highs are natural, extended, and properly integrated into the sound stage. This is rare... The Stealth has an upper midrange to die for. The resolution exceeds anything I've previously heard. Complex, intertwined musical lines are very easy to follow without any blurring. Female voices are airy and almost painfully pure. Some of the female vocalists that I previously yawned at made me sit up in my seat and listen when played through the Stealth DAC. Keep in mind that ALL the music I'm listening to here is 44.1 CD rips played over iTunes and via the optical output of an Apple Airport Express. If you're an acoustic music or chamber orchestra type of guy, you absolutely MUST hear the Stealth DAC! In the lower midrange to upper bass is the sole area where I might pick nits with the Stealth. Male voices are not visceral sounding via the Stealth. They don't have the weight to make you think that the singer is in the room with you. Don't think that the Stealth has bad performance, or is even recessed-sounding here, it isn't. It's just that I've heard better. So instead of an A+ for this region, the Stealth gets a B. Still no slouch... The intermediate to lower bass is another standout area for the Stealth. Given an acoustic bass, not only do you get the thumb sound leaving the string, you also get the resonance of the wood. The Stealth resolves complicated bass lines better than any other DAC I've heard (which is, currently, about a half dozen or so). The low bass seems to be there without any reduction as well. Putting on a synthesizer or organ piece (or DJ Magic Mike, if your preferences go in that direction), you won't lack for rattle in the other rooms from the bass waves. The Stealth can pressurize your chest along with the best. So what doesn't the Stealth do so well? The biggest shortcoming, IMHO, is the lack of a deep & wide soundstage that allows you to "hear into" the original acoustic of the recording (if such ambience is present). The Jolida floats an entire world in front of you where you can hear to the back of the stage, and beyond the edges of the speakers. The Stealth, not so much. Don't get me wrong, there IS some of the sharpest center imaging I've heard using the Stealth, but still not so deep or so wide as I've heard with the Jolida. The Stealth puts the singer directly between the speakers with a miniaturized band around the microphone out to the physical location of the speakers. To my ears, the speakers don't "disappear as sound sources" so much as they do with the Jolida. There's right, left, center, and filled-up spaces between them with the Stealth. With the Jolida, there's just a sonic hologram (with apologies to Bob Carver) that stretches not only beyond the speakers but sometimes beyond the room walls. So which am I going to keep, the Jolida or the Stealth. This is not an easy decision by any means... The Stealth's features alone make it the better bargain. The Stealth has an analog input, the Jolida doesn't. The Stealth has balanced outputs, the Jolida doesn't. The Stealth has asynchronous mode, the Jolida (to the best of my knowledge) doesn't. The Stealth has an analog volume control, the Jolida doesn't. The Stealth has remote control, the Jolida doesn't. Yet both DACs are fairly close in price, and neither exceeds $1,000. The decision would tilt depending on what sonic properties you value. If detail rather than imaging is your priority, then the Stealth is for you. If imaging is your preference, then the Jolida wins. I'm not yet ready to make a choice. I've heard the Stealth with conventional cone-and-box speakers, but have yet to hear it with a planar speaker. When my Magnepan 1.6s arrive, I'll update this thread based on listening with those (very different) speakers. In the meantime, if Garbulky would like to borrow the Stealth I'd be interested in hearing his opinions of it too. Gar? So there you have it. The unassuming Stealth has fought the Jolida to a virtual tie. Who would have thought? Cheers - Boomzilla |
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 11, 2013 10:41:47 GMT -5
Hi Keith -
Good questions. Actually, I do have answers. My only daughter earned her Bachelors (LSU) and Masters (University of Minnesota) in violin performance. I have recordings of her playing in numerous venues where I was present for the original performance. Additionally, I have numerous recordings by the LSU School of music, recorded in their auditorium. I've attended live performances in that venue since I was about 15 years old. Finally, I have numerous recordings of the Baton Rouge Symphony Orchestra in the Centroplex auditorium. I have attended BRSO concerts intermittently (but certainly more than 100 and probably approaching 200) in that same venue. My seats have varied from front row to back of the balcony, so I'm familiar with that orchestra in that venue too.
That said, I still can't discount your proposal that the tube distortion is adding some artifacts to the recordings. If the effect is "euphonic" rather than "accurate," then maybe I just prefer the euphonic sound of the Jolida DAC. I don't think that that's the case, but I can't categorically deny the possibility. This is one of the reasons that I want Garbulky to hear the Stealth DAC. He has made his own recordings of things like him walking around his living room, his wife's performances, and his wife's students' performances. Because Gar was not only present but also the "recording engineer" on those sessions, he should know (better than I) whether the things I'm hearing are an artifact of the recording or an artifact of the DAC itself.
Thanks for asking - Boomzilla
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