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Post by PGT on Oct 13, 2013 17:03:15 GMT -5
The 8 gauge looks like car stereo power wire for any amplifier. For that short a run, there's really no reason for anything bigger than 14awg
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Post by audiosyndrome on Oct 13, 2013 17:28:01 GMT -5
Hi Boom- always love it when someone experiments. It never hurts (or at least it shouldn't).  One or two things to mention. Plain old solder has a lot of tin in the mix; not a very good conductor. Silver solder does a better job, although at more cost. Blue Jeans Cable (and Triod Wire Labs) are getting around this issue by welding the speaker cable to the banana plug, spade, pin, etc. BJC does it ultrasonically. Not sure what method TWL uses. Added plus for welding, a much stronger connection. And remember, bi-wiring will NOT work if the low and high frequencies cables are bundled together. They must be separated by a few inches to work. Russ |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 13, 2013 17:44:22 GMT -5
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 13, 2013 17:51:22 GMT -5
And remember, bi-wiring will NOT work if the low and high frequencies cables are bundled together. They must be separated by a few inches to work. Russ Certainly it will 'work', what your implying is that there will be no improvement without separation? I only post this to remove any confusion from someone reading your post, I don't want to derail this DIY thread and we should respect the OP's intent. |
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Post by bub on Oct 13, 2013 17:58:54 GMT -5
Nice work Boom.. I'm going to make up a couple of sets just for the experience..I've never soldered. As I walked by the PA-7350 I realized each channel has two sets of binding posts. A lot of posts back there. Going to do 2 into 2 on both ends and use the zip ties to clean it up some. Nothing like knowing your equipment.. ..Let us know if you hear a difference..
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 13, 2013 18:11:54 GMT -5
Well, I'm waiting for some other speakers before I try these. Right now, I'm running some yard sale DCM speakers that can't be bi-wired.
As to the "separation works best" for bi-wires, having the woofer leads in one of the two separate bundles and the tweeter leads in the other should provide adequate separation, yes? That's one of the reasons I didn't "tie the two bundles together" for the majority of the length.
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 13, 2013 18:32:59 GMT -5
THANK YOU, audiohtit - I was looking for that excellent thread by jalfrenz, but since I couldn't find it, I posted my own. The other thread is better organized, has fancier-looking wires, and is the original inspiration for me doing the ones here. Maybe the moderators could "sticky" the previous thread? It would help in finding it. The Lounge search engine just isn't too great, IMHO... Cordially - Boomzilla |
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Post by mshump on Oct 14, 2013 10:10:15 GMT -5
Thanks for the Pics and write up Boomzilla !!
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Post by audiosyndrome on Oct 14, 2013 16:24:21 GMT -5
And remember, bi-wiring will NOT work if the low and high frequencies cables are bundled together. They must be separated by a few inches to work. Russ Certainly it will 'work', what your implying is that there will be no improvement without separation? I only post this to remove any confusion from someone reading your post, I don't want to derail this DIY thread and we should respect the OP's intent. I was not implying, I was stating. See any of my previous writeups on bi-wiring. They explain why the wires MUST be separated to work. Russ |
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Post by audiosyndrome on Oct 14, 2013 16:30:22 GMT -5
Well, I'm waiting for some other speakers before I try these. Right now, I'm running some yard sale DCM speakers that can't be bi-wired. As to the "separation works best" for bi-wires, having the woofer leads in one of the two separate bundles and the tweeter leads in the other should provide adequate separation, yes? That's one of the reasons I didn't "tie the two bundles together" for the majority of the length. Hi Boom- Yes, you are correct. I did not see from the post that the majority of the bundles were separated. You can run an experiment for the Lounge. If you do hear a difference with the wires separated, see if it goes away when the cables are bundled. Empirical proof of the laws of magnetism.  Russ |
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Post by Gary Cook on Oct 14, 2013 21:39:54 GMT -5
Well, I'm waiting for some other speakers before I try these. Right now, I'm running some yard sale DCM speakers that can't be bi-wired. As to the "separation works best" for bi-wires, having the woofer leads in one of the two separate bundles and the tweeter leads in the other should provide adequate separation, yes? That's one of the reasons I didn't "tie the two bundles together" for the majority of the length. Hi Boom- Yes, you are correct. I did not see from the post that the majority of the bundles were separated. You can run an experiment for the Lounge. If you do hear a difference with the wires separated, see if it goes away when the cables are bundled. Empirical proof of the laws of magnetism. Russ We just knew this was going to get the thread off topic. How come at home I can run a pair of cables (for separate speakers) together for ~20 metres and there is zero audible cross talk? I can do similar with amplifiers of several kilowatts for frequently over 100 metres to multi speaker arrays with also zero audible cross talk. Or is their something unique in the audible cross talk between lows, mids and highs? Cheers Gary |
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Post by selkec on Oct 14, 2013 22:54:00 GMT -5
[attachment id="4488" thumbnail="1" Here is a pic I made with biwire on one end and the other made to fit the xpa1 amp. I used canare 4s11 I believe Attachments:
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Post by emovac on Oct 14, 2013 23:46:37 GMT -5
Nicely Done Boom. When I built mine, I took the easy way out (and far less beefy) Canare 4S11.
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 15, 2013 5:45:03 GMT -5
[attachment id="4488" thumbnail="1" Here is a pic I made with biwire on one end and the other made to fit the xpa1 amp. I used canare 4s11 I believe Now THAT'S a spiffy looking cable! Nice work! I've used the mesh "jackets" on some of my DIY cables before, but on my latest, I just didn't bother. The jury is out, so far as I'm concerned, on the "biwires work best when they're separated" theory. I'll listen both ways & see if I can hear any diff. If not, I'll probably add some jackets to mine. OTOH, if they sound better separated, then I'll leave them that way. Boom |
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 19, 2013 5:41:54 GMT -5
I'm toying with the (insane) idea of running eight 8-gauge conductors to each loudspeaker in bi-wire configuration. Conductor separation to be achieved by using tennis balls as spacers inside the array of conductors. Should I photograph this (highly unusual) project as well? I don't really think that anyone would want to emulate the gonzo idea, but it could be fun to watch as comic relief...
Why do this at all?
1. If series resistance is the primary impediment to speaker-wire performance, then these should be the absolute "best."
2. They'll be conversation pieces
3. They'll be unique
4. I like to build wires
The question then arises - would these make better contact with their terminals via banana or spade lugs?
Also, has anyone experimented with using a mixture of wire gauges in speaker wire sets? For example, 12 ga woofer cables with 14 ga tweeter cables? Straight woofer cables with braided tweeter cables? Etc.?
Boomzilla
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Post by ocezam on Oct 19, 2013 10:31:59 GMT -5
What sort of tip/plug is that ? I thought banana plugs were of the sort of spring metal type (if you know what I mean). There are numerous types of bananas. The most common, as you note, are the "spring" type where four bowed sides connect to the tip & the base. My preference, I don't know the formal name of, is what you see in the photos. It is a curled design that is just slightly larger in diameter than the plug. It fits well, doesn't loosen as easily, provides what I think is a greater surface area for contact. Boom, The bananas that you are using are generally referred to as "wave" bananas. I agree with you that they provide considerably more contact area than normal, or even locking, bananas. I've made several sets of cable over the years with them. I have had some trouble with them when using them with extra thick cable though. My 8 ga cables are heavy. The weight pulls on the connecters. Every style banana I've tried has broken off from the stress. Even locking bananas, which I believe are the strongest. I've had to start using spades on my cables. Peace.   |
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Post by Darksky on Oct 19, 2013 12:14:43 GMT -5
Attachment DeletedAttachment DeletedI just built a pair of cables. I used Wes Bell primary hook up wire. It is ten gauge wire that is made up of 105 strands of tinned copper wire. I read on some forum here somebody was extolling the virtues of this wire, so at 0.35 cents a foot, I gave it a shot. I used locking bananas on one end and spades on the other. If I ever do it again, I am going to use spades all around. Anyway, they look nice. The white jacket pleases me.
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 19, 2013 18:19:56 GMT -5
So the votes say spades! Now who makes good ones cheaply?
After noticing that Dan Laufman (?!) liked this post, I realized that it could be ambiguous...
So, rephrasing: Who makes good, inexpensive spade connectors? And apologies to anyone inadvertently offended by the original post. And thanks to Big Dan for having a sense of humor!
Boomzilla
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Post by ocezam on Oct 21, 2013 6:53:49 GMT -5
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 5, 2013 6:44:38 GMT -5
Well, gents, the data is in. I've tried both single wires with jumpers, bi wires with no jumpers, and two stereo amps with vertical bi amplification on my Paradigm Eclipse BP speakers. In my room (and to my ears): No difference.
The question then arises, since I HAVE heard differences with other speakers (the Definitive Technology SM65s, to be specific), is the lack of difference here caused by lack of resolution in the speakers? I think not because I also heard "no difference" using the Magnepan 1.6qr speakers. I think that the answer to the single-wire / bi-wire / bi-amp question must be HIGHLY speaker-specific. I don't think that the SM65s are any "higher resolution" than any of my other speakers, so maybe there's just something in their design, crossover, or drivers that is sensitive to wiring.
This speaks naught to whether YOUR speakers will benefit or not from any of the hookups described above. Apparently some do benefit, but I know of no "predictor" that would allow you to know without trying it. Any audible benefit is NOT universal.
Anyway, that's my experience. Make whatever use you can of it (if any).
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