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Post by loudnoises on Oct 16, 2013 13:36:08 GMT -5
After reading the board for a bit and seeing how friendly and engaging everyone is, I wanted to ask for some input on the system I am putting together. This is my first foray into separates.
This will be a combo music and HT setup, with music the first priority.
I have the HT set up in an area that is roughly 11’ x 30’, with 7’ ceilings, drywall all around. The HT space is part of a larger open room roughly twice that size, but is separated by a knee wall and some posts. Floor is carpet on concrete. I expect I will need to do some room treatments and will DIY them once I get the gear in.
My plan is to start with the MMGs+Amp+Oppo, then add the rest in stages.
Fronts: Magnepan MMG
Center: MMGC, or may look at the 2-speaker wall-mount setup Maggie does
Surrounds: MMGW
Sub: Rythmik, Hsu or REL, not sure yet.
Power (fronts): XPA-2 or 2x XPA-100
Power (center/rear): XPA3
Processor: Marantz AV7005 or Emotiva UC200
Sources:
Oppo BD103 + Roku stick,
Turntable and CD- not sure, will depend on what I can find used/cheap.
Here are my questions :
1) How would 2 XPA100s compare to the XPA2? (At 4 ohms, the XPA2 = 500w vs. 400W in the monoblocks, seems like not a major difference.) With the current sale 2 XPA100s are cheaper.
2) With the Oppo and its streaming/processing capabilities, I may not as many capabilities in the AV processor. Any suggestions on processors with a nice, warm, musical sound that might be cheaper?
3) What should I plan to spend on cables for this setup/ any suggestions for what to buy? (so many opinions out there on cables, hard to sort)
Bonus questions
(I know this isn’t a Maggie forum, but it seems like a lot of folks have them, so thought I would ask…)
4) Is it worth considering the MG12s rather than MMGs in this setup?
5) Anyone have experience with the new “super MMG” Magnepan is offering (MMGs+DMW Woofer panel)? It seems like a nice setup, but not sure if it’s worth the $ given a sub is still needed.
Thanks much for any ideas you can pass on.
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 16, 2013 13:44:34 GMT -5
In a room your size, I'd squeeze the budget for some 1.7s if I could. In fact, I wouldn't be averse to 3.7s (if I could afford them). As to amps, I only have experience with the XPA-2 (generation one) which could, if asked, power the Starship Enterprise. Could mono blocks be better? They could - I just don't personally know.
Since it's a big room, I'd go with Bluejean or Monoprice cables if you want some "store bought." Otherwise, solder up your own (see threads in DIY section).
Happy shopping!
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Post by garbulky on Oct 16, 2013 13:59:09 GMT -5
3) What should I plan to spend on cables for this setup/ any suggestions for what to buy? (so many opinions out there on cables, hard to sort) As little as possible while keeping the guage nice and thick. (Minimum 16 guage, but I've got 12 guages). You can get these from monoprice or from walmart's car audio section. |
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Post by SteveB on Oct 16, 2013 14:12:16 GMT -5
In my main system I'm currently using MMG's powered by an XPA-2. Sounds awesome in my opinion. I also own a pair of UPA-1's. I've tried the UPA-1's with the MMG's and really didn't care for the sound. There was a very noticeable difference in clarity and bass (lack of both with UPA-1). If you want to try monoblocks, I would try stepping up to the XPA-1L or XPA-1. Otherwise, save the $ and get an XPA-2 which, in my opinion, is a great match for the MMG's.
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Post by GreenKiwi on Oct 16, 2013 14:19:35 GMT -5
I'd try to get used 1.6s or 1.7s. (or used 3.6, probably around 2k) for example (if you're in the bay area) sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ele/4133033378.htmlI'd also think about a pair of the MC1s or the CC for the center channel. While the MMGs are quite good, I found that the MMGW and MMGC aren't as good. They are smaller and I'd rather have the MMGs w/ phantom center than the MMGC. Someone had a full maggie system for sale, but they moved it to nolonger available... but you might PM them and ask anyway. For amps, you might think about a XPA-5, for all the channels. good luck, you'll have fun. you might think about the 7030 as another processor option. It's what I'd pick of the current options. |
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Post by ryuspeed on Oct 18, 2013 16:00:26 GMT -5
I'll concur with GreenKiwi that if you can get a center channel with a ribbon or quasi ribbon it would be better. That's not to say that the MMGC isn't good. It is, it's just not as good as the MMG. I'm considering upgrading my HT setup to the MC1 and CC5 or CC3.
If you can afford the 1.6, 1.7 or 3.6 go for that. There is an appreciable difference. If not, I don't think I would move to the MG12s. The MMG is a great speaker, especially at its price point.
Like boom, I don't have experience with the emotiva mono blocks so I can't compare, but the Gen 2 XPA-2 drives the MMGs just fine.
Others have already suggested monoprice speaker cables and interconnects. Unless you're just dying to spend money on interconnects, the monoprice will work just fine. While you can hear a difference with cables, to me it's not as big as the difference you get with going to better speakers. So put the money towards the speakers and upgrade the cables as you try to squeeze every last drop out of the other equipment.
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 18, 2013 17:28:50 GMT -5
Has anybody tried vertical biamping with Maggies? In other words, using a stereo amp for each channel. One stereo channel drives the woofer, the second, the tweeter. Although (some) Maggies can be bi-wired or bi-amped, I've never heard of anyone trying. Any reason why not?  Boomzilla |
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Post by GreenKiwi on Oct 18, 2013 17:39:34 GMT -5
I did it with my IPS-1. Maybe some minor improvement at most. An active crossover would make a bigger difference.
You need to have maggies who's x-overs have separate hi and low pass filters.
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Post by luvtubes on Oct 18, 2013 17:58:26 GMT -5
What wall will the main speakers be on? Maggies tend to like being on the short wall, and in this case, the biggest set that could be recommended would be the 1.7's. Anything bigger and they will be too close together, and also, the larger the Maggie, the larger area surrounding them will have to be in order for the speaker to breathe properly. The MMG and 1.7 are similar in regards to space around the panel.
Regardless of model, get the highest quality, highest current amp you can get. They love power, and require top quality in order for them to thrive. If you are building a "music first" setup. you would be hard pressed to find a better speaker for the money than Magnepan. If your goal is HT focused, I would suggest other options.
With regards to the Super MMG... I would still lean towards the 1.7's instead, and add the bass panel if you like. I doubt you would need more than that for music. I have had several Maggie models and with exception to the MMG, never needed or even wanted a subwoofer with them. The sound they produce is so intoxicating that even trying to work a sub into the mix, no matter how well blended, still seems to call attention to itself and ruins the image that speakers paint so very well
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Post by ocezam on Oct 19, 2013 0:06:16 GMT -5
In my main system I'm currently using MMG's powered by an XPA-2. Sounds awesome in my opinion. I also own a pair of UPA-1's. I've tried the UPA-1's with the MMG's and really didn't care for the sound. There was a very noticeable difference in clarity and bass (lack of both with UPA-1). Agreed. I've had both the XPA-2 and two XPA-100's in my home. to me the XPA-2 was the better amp by a pretty wide margin. Mine was the Gen I XPA-2. The reason that the XPA-2 is more expensive than two XPA-100's is the 2 is the new gen II version and the XPA-100 is still Gen I. Don't bother with the MG12. Either save the bucks and get the MMGs, or buy 1.7s. The MG12 occupies a weird spot in the lineup. It doesn';t sound enough better than the MMGs to justify the added cost IMHO. |
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Post by ocezam on Oct 19, 2013 0:11:16 GMT -5
Regardless of model, get the highest quality, highest current amp you can get. They love power, and require top quality in order for them to thrive. Yep and he'll do very well with virtually any Emotiva amp, don't you think? ... |
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Post by pedrocols on Oct 19, 2013 0:32:58 GMT -5
If you have patience you can find the MG12 used cheap cheap cheap
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Post by luvtubes on Oct 19, 2013 1:46:12 GMT -5
Regardless of model, get the highest quality, highest current amp you can get. They love power, and require top quality in order for them to thrive. Yep and he'll do very well with virtually any Emotiva amp, don't you think? ... I was thinking tube power... but anything that is high current will do nicely. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 19, 2013 5:16:42 GMT -5
Maggies like tubes, from what I've read. Most take the economy route - tube preamp + solid state power amp(s). Lots of tube watts get expensive quickly.
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Post by ocezam on Oct 19, 2013 9:04:25 GMT -5
Maggies like tubes, from what I've read. Most take the economy route - tube preamp + solid state power amp(s). I did it this way for a year or two. It's a great way to start with tubes IMHO, much better than a buffer. Lots of tube watts get expensive quickly. That's true enough that I can't directly argue with you. But my amps are 140 watts per channel costing about $2200 inc. shipping. I really don't think that's expensive. They drove my 87db 4 ohm Lsi15's extremely well. I'm sure they'd do fine on Maggies. ... |
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Post by jmasterj on Oct 19, 2013 12:54:22 GMT -5
Having owned both MMG's and then upgraded to MG12QR's I'd have to agree with "ocezam" about the MMG's they are so close to the MG12QR's that If I were to upgrade Maggies again I would go 1.7 or larger. That being said I'll never let my MMG's go. Although there are some MG12QR's you can find for sale cheaper than the $1200.00 for a new pair. I think I would just go with the MMG's. The only reason I didn't chime in sooner was I didn't want to offend any MG12QR owners. My good friend "snacker" here on the forum has some.
I'll add this as well, "lots of tube watts get expensive quickly" that's true, however, I have a modest 50watts/channel tube integrated amp that was not expensive that drives my MMG's, to barrow a phrase, "extremely well" also. I hear a lot of people say Maggies need a lot of power, and/or they are hard to drive that my be true for the larger Maggies. I haven't found that to be true with the MMG's or the MG12QR's I've owned. My first power plant with MMG's and MG12QR's was the $699.00 Outlaw Audio Retro 2150 Receiver 100watts/channel @ 8ohms 160watts/channel@ 4ohms. I had a Yaqin tube buffer with it to add that warm tube sound , and it drove both pairs of speakers and sounded fine. That's not to say they would sound fine with an el cheapo $300.00 receiver I don't think that would work.
When my system got stolen I decided to replace the MG12QR's with MMG's. I wanted to explore tube equipment more so I went to a Hybrid tube integrated amp the BADA DC-222 which is around the same power as the retro was 95watts/channel@ 8ohms, 190watts/channel @4ohms. It cost about $100.00 more than the Outlaw Retro Receiver. They are a wonderful combination the baby Maggies and the BADA. The little Yaqin 50watt/channel tube integrated is proving to be a good combination too. Most would be surprised at how good a modest tube amp can preform.
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Post by GreenKiwi on Oct 19, 2013 13:37:14 GMT -5
I had a 40 sonic frontiers originally with my 1.6s and it handled them quite well.
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Post by loudnoises on Oct 20, 2013 20:11:04 GMT -5
Thanks everyone- you have given me some good things to think about. I think I will look for some used 1.7s and will stick with my original plan to pick up an XPA2. I'll likely forgo the MMG center and the MMGws and see what else I can find.
I was not sure if my narrow wall (~11 feet) would accommodate the 1.7s That wall is where my display is mounted/ dedicated 20-amp circuit and wiring run, so I really can't shift the layout.
If that's a reasonable space to let them open up, I will just wait and hunt some down used- I have not heard them, but the MMGs were so sweet to listen to, I can only imagine how great the 1.7s would be. (I listened to those darn MMGs once and I cannot hear another speaker- they are infectious.)
Thanks again/ will post with progress on the build and am sure I'll have more noobish questions.
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Post by snacker on Oct 20, 2013 22:01:56 GMT -5
Having owned both MMG's and then upgraded to MG12QR's I'd have to agree with "ocezam" about the MMG's they are so close to the MG12QR's that If I were to upgrade Maggies again I would go 1.7 or larger. That being said I'll never let my MMG's go. Although there are some MG12QR's you can find for sale cheaper than the $1200.00 for a new pair. I think I would just go with the MMG's. The only reason I didn't chime in sooner was I didn't want to offend any MG12QR owners. My good friend "snacker" here on the forum has some. Yeah I got mine for $500 off craigslist previously enjoyed. Jmasterj knows I like to watch craigslist like a hawk though. I always share the tempting purchases with him.  |
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Post by rohrej on Oct 20, 2013 23:05:05 GMT -5
For cables, I like Cable Solitions (cs1.net) for their Canare RCA interconnects and star-quad XLR balanced interconnects, and blue-jeans cable for their star-quad speaker cables. In both cases mainly for the quality of connectors and construction. Monoprice is cheaper and functions, but the RCA connectors are mostly plastic and often too tight or too loose. The Canare wire and connectors are very nice.
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