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Post by brubacca on Nov 8, 2013 20:31:58 GMT -5
So ia had a little fun today. I listened to three "tube" integrated amps.
Up first was a PrimaLuna Prologue Premium with the EL34. What a nice little amp. I heard it with a pair of Venere 1.5. The midrange was to die for. Nuances in the music that I have never heard. Really no bass slam. Listen to some Keb Mo, Pearl Jam, Norah Jones and Dave Matthews Band. Really enjoyable sound, but not a good match for the Venere. No reall bass slam. Awesome for jazz, but the amps was a bit weak when trying to rock out.
Up next was Rogue Audio Chronos Magnum. It was an older version spit didn't have the newer kt120 tubes, but WOW. It wasn't as delicate in the midrange, but great slam and attack. This really brought out the rock in Pearl Jam and DMB. This amp really rocked. This amp was the real deal. The speakers were totem mites. It also sounded really good on my Jaz tracks also, but different than the PrimaLuna.
Lastly was the Rogue Sphinx amp. This was a really nice piece also. It is about half the price of the chronos and it sounded it. It is not that it sounded bad it had good bass, but the transients were not as fast as the Chronos and the midrange not as delicate as the Prima Luna.
I have to say that I was very impressed with my little tube experience. I get what the fuss is about.
I see why Emotiva may be hesitant to get into this market. There are already some very nice players in it.
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Post by garbulky on Nov 8, 2013 21:48:58 GMT -5
Thanks for your impressions. I enjoyed it. Sounds like fun!
Did you use a pre-amp and vinyl? What were the sources?
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Post by brubacca on Nov 8, 2013 21:57:58 GMT -5
The source for the Prima Luna was a crappy Denon DVD player, and it still was stunning.
On the other 2 it was a Naim CD player. Only CDs for this little jaunt. I asked the dealer how much the CD player was and he said $5k.
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Post by jlafrenz on Nov 8, 2013 22:30:23 GMT -5
I see a lot of good things posted about Rogue on various forums. I have always wanted to hear one or even buy one. Just a bit more than I have wanted to spend just to give one a listen.
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Post by ocezam on Nov 8, 2013 23:17:10 GMT -5
I see why Emotiva may be hesitant to get into this market. There are already some very nice players in it. I sincerely hope they are not "hesitant". There were (are) "very nice players" in the solid state market when Emotiva came out of nowhere. Nobody else has been able to match Emotiva's value. There is no doubt in my mind that Laufman & Co could make a serious dent in this market the same way they have the SS market. And the way they do it, IMHO, is to actually expand the market more than take a piece of the existing one. Emotiva's quality and value have enabled many to get into higher end audio who wouldn't have had the means otherwise. Heck, Emotiva's existence was the prime motivator for me to get back into serious audio (music!) after a 10 or 12 year hiatus. They'll do the same in the tube arena. If I were Jolida, Prima Luna, Rogue and a few others, I'd be shaking in my boots at the thought of a serious tube effort from Emotiva. Peace. P.S. I agree with your opinions of the three amps you mentioned. It's why I've said it's foolish to have a discussion of "what tubes sound like". Depending on their design and tube compliment, they can sound like anything. Many modern tube amps perform much like a SS amp. Many others don't. |
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Post by luvtubes on Nov 9, 2013 2:04:19 GMT -5
I see a lot of good things posted about Rogue on various forums. I have always wanted to hear one or even buy one. Just a bit more than I have wanted to spend just to give one a listen. Rogue gear is the real deal. Everything I have heard from them has been top-shelf. I would have a pair of M-180's in my stack of stuff were it not for the Carvers. |
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Post by brubacca on Nov 9, 2013 7:48:05 GMT -5
Two of the most striking things I heard were from drums and trumpet. Drums definitely had a much faster attack on the snare. You could hear the tonality of the snare drums in he recordings. You could hear the attack and decay, but you could also hear where the head was possible a bit loose (intentionally) altering the sound.
The trumpet sounded amazing. On Norah Jones Sinkin' Soon there is a muted trumpet. On most systems it comes across a bit squawky, in fact unlistenable. It was amazing on the Prima Lina. Sounded exactly like a muted trumpet should. The chronos was a close second, but the same thing, it was very realistic.
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Post by vcautokid on Nov 11, 2013 11:23:01 GMT -5
I had the Prima Luna Prologue two running Tung Sol 6550c's. While it did sing the mids well. Bass was a bit muddy, and highs a bit of a tizzy. So much preferred the Xpa-2's balance of tone, and immediacy. I had a Vincent SAT-1 preamplifier that should have never sold. That was magic!
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Post by milsap195 on Nov 11, 2013 12:15:13 GMT -5
I had the Prima Luna Prologue two running Tung Sol 6550c's. While it did sing the mids well. Bass was a bit muddy, and highs a bit of a tizzy. So much preferred the Xpa-2's balance of tone, and immediacy. I had a Vincent SAT-1 preamplifier that should have never sold. That was magic! I love my Vincent 236mII hybrid intergrated! After I rolled out the stock tubes it just became that much better. If you notice in my sig I have some new toys and I really want a SAT-1 but they are hard to get in the USA, may get a SAT-8 from Audio Advisor. Once you go tubes it hard to go back. My xpa2 and xsp1 will be up for sale after the first of the year. |
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Post by brubacca on Nov 11, 2013 14:17:22 GMT -5
I am definitely a believer that Tubes can make amazing sounding music. I was actually a bit disappointed in the hybrid Amp. I'm not sure what tubes sounded like back in the day, but the examples I listened to didn't seem to be overly bloated or romantic. The Rogue stuff is for real. I'm sure the Prima Luna is great with the right speakers...
Come on Emotiva, what are you going to have for us in this area?
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Post by vcautokid on Nov 11, 2013 14:59:33 GMT -5
You have to go with what gets your music your way. Many love the character of tubes. I am one that would say I am not really one way or the other on SS vs. Tube. But more how it gets me there. That SAT-1 blew me away that other tubed gear I tried didn't. Probably more me than the gear though.
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Post by pdaddy on Nov 11, 2013 21:41:36 GMT -5
I have been very impressed with the Sophia Baby Amp for my Tekton's. !0 watt's of sweetness for high efficiency speaker.
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Post by ocezam on Nov 12, 2013 8:30:27 GMT -5
That SAT-1 blew me away that other tubed gear I tried didn't. Probably more me than the gear though. Words of wisdom as far as I'm concerned. Most of our personal preferences are just that, personal. Then we get all wrapped up in defending our choices. After 35 years in this hobby, I know what I like. But it remains, what I like. Not necessarily what you like. .... |
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Post by ocezam on Nov 12, 2013 8:33:33 GMT -5
I'm not sure what tubes sounded like back in the day, but the examples I listened to didn't seem to be overly bloated or romantic. I think most modern higher powered, push/pull tube amps fit this description. They bring power rivaling SS with only a mild tube feel. The lower powered SET crowd being the general exception. I'm not interested in SETs myself, but to each his own... |
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Post by Boomzilla on Nov 12, 2013 8:38:59 GMT -5
I see a lot of good things posted about Rogue on various forums. I have always wanted to hear one or even buy one. Just a bit more than I have wanted to spend just to give one a listen. Rogue gear is the real deal. Everything I have heard from them has been top-shelf. I would have a pair of M-180's in my stack of stuff were it not for the Carvers. Agreed - For the money spent, I consider Rogue Audio "The Emotiva of the tube world." They provide fantastic reliability, fantastic value, and fantastic sound. I'm keeping my eyes open for a Rogue Audio tube preamp to tide me over until (if ever) Emotiva offers theirs. |
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bigus
Minor Hero
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Post by bigus on Nov 15, 2013 20:56:40 GMT -5
Boomzilla: I see your using the Crown XLS1500's. I have two 1000's in mono and a set of Peavy PVX 15's. This is my outdoor voice.....  brubacca: I have used the EL34's with my PrimaLuna and I agree that the mids are amazing but the highs and lows were lacking. The KT88's that came with the amp and rolling to JJ KT88's were like night and day. A full sound with high, low and midrange. Very impressive. Thanks for the mini review. I was actually looking at Rouge Audio but went with PrimaLuna. I actually used the PremaLuna Preamp with two UPA-1's for quite a while. I would love to see Emotiva join the tube ranks. I would hope they have one feature like "auto bias" that would make the jump to tubes forgiving.
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Post by ocezam on Nov 16, 2013 8:07:49 GMT -5
I would love to see Emotiva join the tube ranks. I would hope they have one feature like "auto bias" that would make the jump to tubes forgiving. I hear some of people wanting auto bias. It would be nice I guess, but it's certainly not necessary, and I'd rather Emotiva keep costs down. It takes me 6 to 8 minutes to bias the tubes on both my amps and it only needs to be done once or twice a year. Great way to give a little love back to your gear IMHO. Biasing tubes is something non tube people are worried about and shouldn't be. |
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Post by milsap195 on Nov 16, 2013 9:16:41 GMT -5
I would love to see Emotiva join the tube ranks. I would hope they have one feature like "auto bias" that would make the jump to tubes forgiving. I hear some of people wanting auto bias. It would be nice I guess, but it's certainly not necessary, and I'd rather Emotiva keep costs down. It takes me 6 to 8 minutes to bias the tubes on both my amps and it only needs to be done once or twice a year. Great way to give a little love back to your gear IMHO. Biasing tubes is something non tube people are worried about and shouldn't be. On mine the auto bias is nice, especially being my first tube amp and not worrying about hurting anything. Also it is nice to be able to change the bias with just a turn of a knob, it allows you to tweak the sound a little bit which is always a nice bonus. |
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Post by jmasterj on Nov 16, 2013 11:27:36 GMT -5
This is my first tube amp and it doesn't have auto bias. I've only had it for a little over month so I'm looking forward to going through the process. It has four EL-34B Blue Glass 6CA7 tubes for the power section. So I don't think it should take to long for me to adjust them. I've had equipment all my life and never really considered buying a tube amp until now. I really like the sound.
ocezam,
I have a question about when to adjust the bias. My owners manual states to adjust the screen current to 0.4V but it made no mention about how often to check/make the adjustment. So I'll only need to make the adjustments once every six months or so ? Thanks j
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Post by ocezam on Nov 17, 2013 8:42:18 GMT -5
ocezam, I have a question about when to adjust the bias. My owners manual states to adjust the screen current to 0.4V but it made no mention about how often to check/make the adjustment. So I'll only need to make the adjustments once every six months or so ? Thanks j My manual says six or eight months, or something like that. I biased them when I first put in the KT120s the day they arrived. I've checked them every month since then. They have not deviated at all. All eight tubes are still spot on. Mine are supposed to be biased to 500 millivolts using an "easy bias" system Jolida has. With it, the owner simply adjusts bias until a red LED turns on in front of each output tube. I was concerned about how accurate that LED would be, so when I set the bias, and every time I've checked the bias since, I did it with a multimeter. The LEDs are DEAD ON @ 500 millivolts. Very accurate. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against auto bias other than added cost/complexity. I'm sure if Emotiva decided to go this way they'd design an auto bias system that works flawlessly. I'm still hoping in the back of my mind that Emotiva's first tube amps blow me away with power and value (as their SS amps do) allowing me to sell my Jolidas and come back to Emotiva amplification. Peace |
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