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Post by brubacca on Nov 17, 2013 6:44:58 GMT -5
I was watching Lonnie's video about the ERC-3 and he goes into great detail about the separate power supply sections of the unit. It makes sense to me and I can understand the sonic benefit.
What I don't understand is why the same benefit wouldn't be true for a media player/server. The consensus is get a PC or a Mac, but wouldn't they be run off of one noisy power supply?
Would a real audiophile media server benefit from a similar power supply architecture?
Please realize that I mean this as a positive. Watching the video made me both happy and sad. The ERC-3 looks great and I'll most likely get one. I ask just kept thinking how great the same chasing would look minus the drive and with a small OLED or VFD for showing media information.
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Post by garbulky on Nov 17, 2013 6:59:41 GMT -5
I was watching Lonnie's video about the ERC-3 and he goes into great detail about the separate power supply sections of the unit. It makes sense to me and I can understand the sonic benefit. What I don't understand is why the same benefit wouldn't be true for a media player/server. The consensus is get a PC or a Mac, but wouldn't they be run off of one noisy power supply? Would a real audiophile media server benefit from a similar power supply architecture? Please realize that I mean this as a positive. Watching the video made me both happy and sad. The ERC-3 looks great and I'll most likely get one. I ask just kept thinking how great the same chasing would look minus the drive and with a small OLED or VFD for showing media information. I can't think of way for a PC to use multiple power supplies unless they had external connectors on the PCI boards. But anyway I think the job of the PC is to pass on digital audio which I think is less affected by power than the analog side. However.... I think a concern of PC audio is that if one is using USB as the output (for DSD and the like) you are limited to the cheap USB connections and circuitry that are thrown in with the motherboard. I guess one could use a USB add on PCI oard? |
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Post by brubacca on Nov 17, 2013 7:05:57 GMT -5
Actually to be fair and have full disclosure, I hate the idea of a computer at my audio system. I have tested it and I have friends who do it. This is a not so veiled attempt to sway others to my opinion that Emotiva should make this product. Most importantly Big Dan and Lonnie.
I am dead set in this opinion to the point where I may save up the $1k it would take to get a Stream Magic or $2K for a Bryston.
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Post by Jim on Nov 17, 2013 7:18:02 GMT -5
Actually to be fair and have full disclosure, I hate the idea of a computer at my audio system. I have tested it and I have friends who do it. This is a not so veiled attempt to sway others to my opinion that Emotiva should make this product. Most importantly Big Dan and Lonnie. I am dead set in this opinion to the point where I may save up the $1k it would take to get a Stream Magic or $2K for a Bryston. I want a media streamer from Emotiva too - but the price point seems to be the challenge. How much would you be willing to pay for an Emo steamer? I think for most people it's around $400-500 or so. It sounds like you'd spend $1000 or more for one? |
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Post by brubacca on Nov 17, 2013 9:04:24 GMT -5
I was hoping for something in the $750 range...
My knees get weak at $1k and I have never purchased something at or above $2k except my house and cars.
(Actually I did purchase a B&K Ref 10 Pre-Amp, and I really didn't feel that I got that much value from it).
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Nov 17, 2013 9:36:48 GMT -5
I see you have an Outlaw 970. Technically, that's a computer.  Sorry, I don't mean to be rude at all...but technically, any pre-pro is a computer - it's just in a different form than things we call a "computer". And, any media player/streamer would be a computer also. They each have circuits which allow them to take data in from a source, allow a user to control what source is being played, and they output that source to something which decodes from digital to analog (either externally or internally), and in the end tunes go to an amp/speaker system. What would make a media player in an audio-intended box any less of a computer than the little Dell 660s sitting next to all my audio components given my Dell does exactly the same things I listed for a media player? Just seeking to learn what the distinction is as I see many people anxiously awaiting the right media player to come out, but I honestly can't see what they are waiting for. Everything we need appears to be here already. Mark |
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Post by brubacca on Nov 17, 2013 10:18:42 GMT -5
The distinction to me is exactly what this thread is about. Lonnie goes into great detail about how separate power supplies for each part of the CD player are optimized for the best audio quality. If this was also done for an audio media player wouldn't/couldn't you get a "better" signal out when compared to a PC with a power supply that has not been optimized for low noise audio and crosstalk?
He also goes on about layout and vibration reduction. Do PC designers also goe to such lengths?
A PC may do the same job, but could a dedicated component designed like the ERC-3 do it better?
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Nov 17, 2013 10:52:28 GMT -5
Gotcha - I am operating under the assumption garbullky stated...that the big concern is once the data is in analog. I may be wrong, but that's my assumption. And for me, with the DAC being outboard of the PC, I am assuming mine is fine. My PC essentially just acts as a device to take data from the HD and output it from the USB out, with JRiver software telling the computer which data to take and where to send it.
Mark
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Post by brubacca on Nov 17, 2013 10:56:09 GMT -5
I actually tried the whole pc thing. I got a dell my neighbor was throwing away ( pentium dual core, 2 gig ram). Installed a SSD as the only drive, added a USB/SPDIF adapter. Loaded J.River and run ASIO mode. Honestly I was underwhelmed.
My friend who does this has a $300 USB card and swears this makes the system. I just can't go there to "test".
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Nov 17, 2013 11:35:02 GMT -5
What DAC was used?
Mark
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Post by PGT on Nov 17, 2013 11:48:20 GMT -5
What's the benefit of a media streamer vs. something like an Oppo, Xbox or PS3/PS4? I turn on jriver or google media server on an existing PC and then point the PS3 and Oppo at the files and its one less box to buy. - Sometimes the terseness of my reply can't be blamed on my phone.  |
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Post by brubacca on Nov 17, 2013 15:07:46 GMT -5
I used a Musical Fidelity V-Link (v2) to feed coax digital to my XDA-1. The comparison was made to my Squeezebox Touch feeding the same DAC in the other Coax. |
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Post by brubacca on Nov 17, 2013 15:17:05 GMT -5
Obviously I am in the minority here since nobody else is jumping in on this one.
I believe that the benefit to a dedicated device made to audio standards is the same reason why you would shell out $499 for an ERC-3. Why do people buy a $500 Oppo instead of a $49 Sanyo Blue Ray?
My feeling is that a dedicated device can be done better than a universal one. I'm not saying that there is no other way to accomplish it, but it seems most of us are here to explore audio to a higher standard. I think that a media streamer can be made to these philosophies...
It all seems so logical to me, I just don't get why I am seemingly alone on an island on this one.
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Nov 17, 2013 16:36:12 GMT -5
For what it's worth, while I have not done extensive testing on this yet...I feel that feeding my DC-1 USB from my computer sounds far better than feeding it optical digital from my Sonos ZP-90.
I have no idea why, but that's what I heard. I do need to listen more to confirm that, though.
Mark
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Post by PGT on Nov 17, 2013 17:08:14 GMT -5
Toslink is an inferior connection, except for breaking the electrical connection. Before the days of HDMI and USB, the coaxial digital connection was the preferred output from DVD players. Its been too many years since I used to know the reasons for that so don't quote on it. - Sometimes the terseness of my reply can't be blamed on my phone. |
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Post by GreenKiwi on Nov 17, 2013 17:09:10 GMT -5
My take is that separate PSs are important at boundaries. In the Erc-3, there are three portions and most importantly there is an analog section. You don't want to have another power sink making your power dirty for your analog section.
For digital you just don't want the PS to allow artifacts to be seen in the digital signal. And you want your digital connection isolated from your analog. I would expect that my Dac would isolate its analog section from any dirty power coming in on the USB cable. As well as reclocking the data to remove any jitter that might exist in the USB stream.
I would also agree with the comments above about most prepros being computers. My actual issue with a computer is that (at least in my experience) they tend to have more usage issues than dedicated devices. Reboots, crashed software, updates, etc. I'll hopefully be enjoying my olive one soon. My hope is that it is a device that just always works. And it will click in at $599 with a 1TB drive and an awesome user interface. (Which is my problem with the oppo and the PS3.) I just hope that it's mobile apps are as good as Jremote is for Jriver. Jremote is really awesome.
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Post by brubacca on Nov 17, 2013 17:59:22 GMT -5
For what it's worth, while I have not done extensive testing on this yet...I feel that feeding my DC-1 USB from my computer sounds far better than feeding it optical digital from my Sonos ZP-90. I have no idea why, but that's what I heard. I do need to listen more to confirm that, though. Mark I had a similar experience with my squeezebox touch. First I tried wireless. Then I tried Powerline networking. Both sounded horrible. Lastly I attached my media directly to the Touch (it has a USB connection) and it sound GREAT. I can only assume that the wireless transmission and Powerline transmission caused jitter which resulted in flat dull lifeless sound. My router is a low quality action tech that Verizon supplies. It is only one antenna. This gave me great hope for the PC solution. Then I tried it and was disappointed. I sound much like when I was streaming to the touch. I can only assume that the signal from the PC was somehow being degraded. My guess is that electrical noise from the PC was junking up the sound. |
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