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Post by a2channelman on Nov 22, 2013 15:17:35 GMT -5
Most of us are aware Emotiva gear is very well made but why not do a video comparing another unit of exactly the same price , don't slam the other product hard just point out the simple facts . For instance you could do a video comparing the build quality of a new ERC3 against a exactly the same price NAD C546BEE without tearing apart the NAD show the differences in build Emotiva massive solid aluminium face and just point out the oh so nice cheesy plastic faceplate on the NAD and simply point out the differences in build quality . Once people clearly see the differences they can make a informed decision .
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Post by garbulky on Nov 22, 2013 16:58:08 GMT -5
I personally don't think the chassis is what build quality is about but the actual components, circuitry, and connectors. But Emotiva gear sure looks nice and I really like the look.
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Post by jlafrenz on Nov 22, 2013 18:18:11 GMT -5
I think even if they did this and tried to do it in a tasteful way, it would get taken the wrong way. The best thing to do is just keep doing what they are doing by simply highlighting the benefits of their components. Consumers shopping for these types of products will likely make some of these comparisons on their own. Just my thoughts anyway.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Nov 22, 2013 20:34:38 GMT -5
I personally don't think the chassis is what build quality is about but the actual components, circuitry, and connectors. But Emotiva gear sure looks nice and I really like the look. I'd disagree and say that the quality of the chassis, case, and faceplate materials (and workmanship) are part of the build quality. How good it looks is aesthetics. |
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Post by Porscheguy on Nov 22, 2013 21:31:30 GMT -5
CD players with massive aluminium faceplates always sound better than ones with plastic faceplates? NAD builds great stuff. Some of the best around...
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Post by a2channelman on Nov 23, 2013 15:42:22 GMT -5
Ok guys chill out a bit , in the past I can think of ad campaigns that would bluntly point out how that companies products were built to a higher standard than the competition . I remember a old Onkyo ad what makes an Onkyo an Onkyo?
Take away this take away that use cheaper parts here , and it's more like the competition , also I believe old Sonic Frontiers did ads similar just pointing out differences in attention to detail and parts . I am not saying slam NAD directly but personally in my mind when companies do go the route of plastic as NAD has in recent years , they do for one reason not aesthetics not sound quality not resonance control . Profit . So again I can see a video with 1 Emotiva product and 1 brand X both in the same price range and with the 2 units side by side point out the details , power supply , transport , structural integrity , types and quality of connectors , The reason I said NAD was C546BEE same $499 price point as ERC3 so fair ball . If NAD is really as good as their image ...where is their 5 year transferable warranty ? .
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emovac
Emo VIPs 
Saeed al-Sahhaf
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Post by emovac on Nov 24, 2013 2:35:18 GMT -5
Good sounding products with low failure rates sell well. Think Emotiva has done pretty well thusfar.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2013 8:09:08 GMT -5
Most of us are aware Emotiva gear is very well made but why not do a video comparing another unit of exactly the same price , don't slam the other product hard just point out the simple facts . For instance you could do a video comparing the build quality of a new ERC3 against a exactly the same price NAD C546BEE without tearing apart the NAD show the differences in build Emotiva massive solid aluminium face and just point out the oh so nice cheesy plastic faceplate on the NAD and simply point out the differences in build quality . Once people clearly see the differences they can make a informed decision . My take is, it's usually better for someone else (e.g., the audio reviewers, customers, etc) to tell the Emotiva story. I do see your point, and it's a valid one but knowing Dan, Kathy, Lonnie and company, I suspect they prefer to let others do the comparing. Still, I would love to see and read about a shoot out between the ERC-3 and other players in that price range..... |
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Post by leonski on Sept 16, 2018 19:24:04 GMT -5
First? I think all NAD gear is contract built. I don't think NAD actually owns any manufacturing.
Boards these days are stuffed by automatic machines and 'wave soldered'. Not really much difference between manufacturers using essentially identical process and equipement.
The REAL differences would be tough to do a video of. For example? Parts Choice. Let's start with Resisitors. Available from 1/4th watt on UP to 5 watt or more. All the same? Nope. The 'Carbon Resistor' is the bottom of the food chain
and I doubt in use any more except in a vintage restoration which must be exactly as originally built. But you Could substitute one of the thin film versions (more $$$) or even a wire-wound if you didn't worry about the OTHER properties of this device.
Transistors vary as well. Even the most simple device might vary from builder to builder based on MTBF, a measure of statistical reliability. Same part # is no guarantee of identical performance.
The simple transformer? Various build levels, here, too. My parasound amps have potted / cased devices which will NEVER hum or vibrate. Some gear using less costly 'iron' might sometimes be subject to transformer hum under some conditions (like DC offset).
You MIGHT get some mileage out of a video 'show and tell' in which the parts quality of EMO gear were extoled. A view around the electronics lab showing test gear, curve tracers and such might also help. Show a session of someone doing output device matching.
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Post by audiosyndrome on Sept 16, 2018 19:41:09 GMT -5
99 % of the circuit card assemblies being built today are surface mount. SMT boards are not "wave soldered" but rather go through an IR reflow process. Through-hole parts, after machine (or hand) stuffing are wave soldered. Good luck today trying to find a vendor that still machine stuffs through-hole boards. Guessing most audio stuff with through-hole parts are "hand" stuffed but thats just a guess.
Russ
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Post by Loop 7 on Sept 16, 2018 20:14:39 GMT -5
Realize this thread is about the general concept of comparison videos which I think is a stellar idea but I have to comment on the NAD tangent. I'm a lifelong fan of the way NAD voices their DACs and amplifiers and currently own some NAD gear. However, the build quality of their no-master level equipment, in my experience, has always been problematic. Emotiva and other even more so Parasound blow NAD out of the water.
Although, my XDA-2, MC-700, DC-1 and some original Airmotiv monitors all needed warranty work. Yes, I have bad luck.
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Post by mauriceminor on Sept 16, 2018 21:09:42 GMT -5
I remember reading a warning on the NAD website about the C272 / C372 amps
A well ventilated rack was essential for forestalling smoke and possibly fire
That said, I've had 2155 / 3155 / 7020 in service for many years without problems
Far less success with a 7040 however, and my nephew had both an NAD integrated and a NAD power amp fail
I have no experience with any current production
As for Emotiva . . .
Trouble free:
CMX-2 (2)
ERC-1
UPA-2 (2)
UPA-500
XPA-1 (1)
XDA-2
Sherbourn PRE-1
And two others:
XPA-1 (1) - replaced by Emotiva ( warranty )
XDA-1 - 2 trips to Emotiva for service, flawless since ( warranty )
Always friendly, personal, and prompt service from the crew in Franklin - a model for all in the trade
Some other trouble free electronics over the many years:
Bryston, Crown, Dynaco, FiiO, Kenwood, LiTe, Marantz, McIntosh, MiniDSP, Musical Fidelity, Rotel, S5, SAE, Sony, Yamaha
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Post by leonski on Sept 16, 2018 23:50:30 GMT -5
Shows how far off the pace I am. I've never cracked the case on ANY stereo I've owned since my ancient Kenwood KA7100 integrated amp, the sections of which were linked with WIREWRAP!
The Kenwood is still going, and IMO would benefit from having the PS capacitors replaced. They MUST be getting on now and I think the guy I gave it to is not up to speed on this sort of thing.
But my point remains. Everybody builds the same. One thing not mentioned and I'm ALSO not current about is the various Solders used. I know that they have changed and my old reel of Kester is
now probably either obsolete or somehow illegal for modern usage. But Not DIY, which is all I'm interested in it for. My limited understanding is that some of the new solders are more.....brittle.....
than older formulations. I know I had a TV which needed a bunch of connections reflowed while a couple ICs were replaced.
I know some of the KITS I've looked into are thru-hole and therefore hand stuffed. The Pass 'Amp Camp Amp' is high on my desired list.
I had mercifully forgotton about SMT.
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Post by audiobill on Sept 17, 2018 5:02:48 GMT -5
Agree Leonski -with parts cost representing about 20% of a commercial product's price, you can have 5x the component by DIY.
And btw solder is reputed to have an "expiration date".
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Post by vcautokid on Sept 17, 2018 7:24:10 GMT -5
I think this is bit interesting. The build and quality of Emotiva is quite excellent. My Brother enjoys the XPA-2 and ERC-1 to this like it was new. The USP-1 soldiers on uneventful. No issues with any Emotiva gear here. That already goes beyond the detailed images from the website.
The parts are important. Design and build for the long term and performance is all I care about. Sure you can compare. But in the end the performance speaks for itself.
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Post by pedrocols on Sept 17, 2018 9:10:44 GMT -5
The past 6 pieces of Emotiva items I've owned seemed pretty well built. This includes 5 amps and one preamp.
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Post by leonski on Sept 17, 2018 20:14:36 GMT -5
Agree Leonski -with parts cost representing about 20% of a commercial product's price, you can have 5x the component by DIY. And btw solder is reputed to have an "expiration date". GEE, than the solder I have 'in stock' must be so far out of date as to be Useless! I think the directions that came with it are in Hieroglyphics. I'd go to the shop's spool and reel myself off 4 or 5 feet and coil. I've still got a little left from.......well, just say a WHILE ago! And based on that, I'd be wasting $$$ to get the good deal and purchase a POUND of small diameter Kester. It would last me 40 years and the end would again be so wacky out of date as to be laughable. Buying better parts sometimes does and sometimes DOESN'T make sense. I'd buy matched transistors for output devices. But would I spend the Big Bucks on FREDs for my PS? probably not. And good 30 amp or so bridge rectifier should work fine. But I would spend more for a better transformer. Switches should last forever. No reason NOT to get good hookup wire and solder, maybe w/Silver content? I'd buy 5% tolerance capacitors for crossovers or maybe better. No need for the PS where whatever is good enough. And ANY resistor in the signal path will be a film type, NO carbon allowed. Of the appropriate wattage. |
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Post by Hair Nick on Sept 18, 2018 16:59:19 GMT -5
We have discussed doing product shootouts extensively over the past years. The specialty audio industry is pretty small and we don't want to really step on any toes. BUT, with that said, we could always do a better job showing off our build quality with more closeup shots and video!
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Post by novisnick on Sept 18, 2018 17:38:23 GMT -5
We have discussed doing product shootouts extensively over the past years. The specialty audio industry is pretty small and we don't want to really step on any toes. BUT, with that said, we could always do a better job showing off our build quality with more closeup shots and video! Great! Hows about some close up and under the hood shots of the DC-2 and the Class A HP amp? |
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Post by Hair Nick on Sept 19, 2018 8:20:43 GMT -5
We have discussed doing product shootouts extensively over the past years. The specialty audio industry is pretty small and we don't want to really step on any toes. BUT, with that said, we could always do a better job showing off our build quality with more closeup shots and video! Great! Hows about some close up and under the hood shots of the DC-2 and the Class A HP amp? When we get the final production samples in then absolutely. Preproduction models tend to not be 100% looks wise. |
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