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Post by roadrunner on Jan 13, 2014 1:31:35 GMT -5
Calling it a great combo is truly an understatement. I love mine also and must add that the Emotiva XSP-1 is the best stereo preamp I have ever had the pleasure of listening to. When John E. Johnson, Jr. of Secrets of Home Theater and HiFi reviewed the XSP-1 he wrapped it up by saying: Well, what can I say here, but WOW! For $899, you get one heck of a preamplifier. If it were $3,899, I would still say, "WOW" If that wasn't enough, Secrets... just selected the XSP-1 as the BEST STEREO PREAMP OF 2013. Links to read the full reviews by Secrets... are shown below. Read the complete review to gain an understanding of why the XSP-1 is the best stereo preamp for your purposes. Enjoy digesting all John E. Johnson, Jr. had to say about the XSP-1 performance. Pay particular attention to the "ON THE BENCH" section of the review.  hometheaterhifi.com/preamplifiers/preamplifiers-reviews/emotiva-xsp-1-balanced-stereo-preamplifier.htmlhometheaterhifi.com/best-of-awards/best-of-awards/secrets-best-of-2013-awards.html
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Post by danny01 on Jan 13, 2014 2:23:55 GMT -5
Calling it a great combo is truly an understatement. I love mine also and must add that the Emotiva XSP-1 is the best stereo preamp I have ever had the pleasure of listening to. When John E. Johnson, Jr. of Secrets of Home Theater and HiFi reviewed the XSP-1 he wrapped it up by saying: Well, what can I say here, but WOW! For $899, you get one heck of a preamplifier. If it were $3,899, I would still say, "WOW" If that wasn't enough, Secrets... just selected the XSP-1 as the BEST STEREO PREAMP OF 2013. Links to read the full reviews by Secrets... are shown below. Read the complete review to gain an understanding of why the XSP-1 is the best stereo preamp for your purposes. Enjoy digesting all John E. Johnson, Jr. had to say about the XSP-1 performance. Pay particular attention to the "ON THE BENCH" section of the review. hometheaterhifi.com/preamplifiers/preamplifiers-reviews/emotiva-xsp-1-balanced-stereo-preamplifier.htmlhometheaterhifi.com/best-of-awards/best-of-awards/secrets-best-of-2013-awards.html Out of curiousity, which preamps have you had in your system to compare? Sent from my HTC6500LVW using proboards |
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Post by moko on Jan 13, 2014 3:24:57 GMT -5
Many people on the emo lounge feel that the pre-amp functionality of the DC-1 sounds as good as the xsp1. I wish I had felt that way (it would have saved me $$s), but using the DC-1 as a DAC and feeding the signal to the usp1 the sound was much more dynamic (textured, "real" sounding) than using the DC-1 as DAC and pre-amp. i think it's comparable (extreme comparison not apple to apple one) to an underpowered amp trying to deliver dynamics to a pair of hard to drive speakers. imho, a pre-amp in dac (or vice versa dac in pre-amp) usually more compromised than their stand alone version. an added feature to justify their cost. |
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Post by OP on Jan 13, 2014 3:41:42 GMT -5
I don't want to slam my other brand, but the XSP-1 is in a different league deign and performance wise compared to the other models being mentioned here. Really. The XSP-1 is fully balanced from input to output. It has a stunning phono stage, balanced HT bypass and 2.1 bass management. Not to mention you would have a true Differential Reference signal path with your amps. This is the whole point of the series! Also, I'll give you the sale price since you originally wanted it with your amps. Send me a pm if you decide to go this direction. Cheers, Big Dan That is quite the offer Dan and it will make an A to B comparison much more tempting! Thanks! Now I won't feel as bad for keeping the P5 and selling it if the XSP does indeed trounce it.  Should be interesting. I'll keep an eye on availability. |
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Post by OP on Jan 13, 2014 4:13:30 GMT -5
Calling it a great combo is truly an understatement. I love mine also and must add that the Emotiva XSP-1 is the best stereo preamp I have ever had the pleasure of listening to. When John E. Johnson, Jr. of Secrets of Home Theater and HiFi reviewed the XSP-1 he wrapped it up by saying: Well, what can I say here, but WOW! For $899, you get one heck of a preamplifier. If it were $3,899, I would still say, "WOW" If that wasn't enough, Secrets... just selected the XSP-1 as the BEST STEREO PREAMP OF 2013. Links to read the full reviews by Secrets... are shown below. Read the complete review to gain an understanding of why the XSP-1 is the best stereo preamp for your purposes. Enjoy digesting all John E. Johnson, Jr. had to say about the XSP-1 performance. Pay particular attention to the "ON THE BENCH" section of the review. hometheaterhifi.com/preamplifiers/preamplifiers-reviews/emotiva-xsp-1-balanced-stereo-preamplifier.htmlhometheaterhifi.com/best-of-awards/best-of-awards/secrets-best-of-2013-awards.html I definitely read those already  Quite the compliment by the reviewer indeed. What gives me some pause is some of the descriptors he used here to characterize the experience such as..."Clarity, detail, neutrality (page 3 of review)." Now for some people words like this are, well, music to their ears. For me, a guy who likes some warmth to color the playback--which may in fact be mild distortion that comes into tubes commonly and some SS and preamps (I won't pretend to know how for each)--I simply pause to ask whether this detail will be taxing. Isn't there something to this question for everyone? I assume Emotiva added Class A bias to the newer lines because there is something quite pleasing to it that more than a few people appreciate. Anyhow, the question simply cannot be answered without giving them a try as Emotiva's best offering in a preamp. Perhaps I will say, screw warmth, this accuracy/detail is exquisite! Or I may say, I can see why hardcore audiophiles would love this, but for my ears this is too fatiguing and I need some warmer sounds so I can listen for hours on end. We shall see. Given Dan's offer, I can't see any reason I shouldn't give them a chance. And, by the way, I must point out that you aren't hearing this comparison discussion brought up from me about the 1-L's, so props to Emotiva! On another note, I would like to know what else roadrunner is basing his evaluation on as well, just for reference sake. I've only had the pleasure of hearing a few preamps paired with my speakers so far. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Jan 13, 2014 4:46:36 GMT -5
The reason why I have a long time liking for Class A amps is their superior mid to high frequency accuracy. So I would suggest that if you like the XPA-1L's then the all range accuracy of the XSP-1 would compliment it.
Inaccurate reproduction is what I find trying and I'm not a fan of distortion that wasn't there in the recording.
Cheers
Gary
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2014 5:01:48 GMT -5
" I listen for hours and my ears are easily fatigued due to tinnitus" IMO, my immediate thought is to look at your speakers. So many of the newer speakers tend to have a FR peak above 10Hz or so. A few year back my speakers with a metal tweeter and somewhat rising FR above 12kHz made for fatiguing listening. My wife and I were both frequently irritated after a short time with both music and movies. After buying my Emo Reference speakers with the ultra smooth silk dome and also the Emo Airmotiv4 for my PC system (folded ribbon HF driver with no peak), we were very happy and no more fatigue even after many hours. S&V review test for the GoldenEar Technology Triton Two  www.soundandvision.com/content/test-report-goldenear-technology-triton-two-tower-speakers-page-4 Stereophile review test for the GoldenEar Technology Triton Two  www.stereophile.com/content/goldenear-technology-triton-two-loudspeaker-measurements |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2014 6:57:07 GMT -5
Big Dan is just like that great Guy! This is why I have EMO gear well plus his audio/video gear is awesome too I should say.
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Post by mgbpuff on Jan 13, 2014 7:21:24 GMT -5
Get the XSP-1. I have it teamed with XPA-1s and Maggie 3.6Rs. It sounds heavenly and Maggies, expecially the true ribbon tweeter ones, have lots of hf extension this combo sounds realistic and in no way fatiguing. The XPA-1Ls will be great. The only other pre I tried with this combo was the USP-1 and the XSP-1 is clearer and more dynamic. I have other preamps (Cary SLP05, W4S, and Peachtree Nova) on other systems, but I have no desire to substitute any of them for the XSP-1.
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Post by bigmule on Jan 13, 2014 7:32:05 GMT -5
I seriously recommend waiting for the xsp-1. Not that my opinion weighs more than anyone else...
I believe in system synergy. These products were made to work with each other.
I am only doing 2 channel only...so if you are doing a theater setup than I can't help you. I know nothing of Parasound products, other than they have a decent reputation for a good value products and also offer a really expensive line as well.
I am blown away by the performance of the xsp-1 / xpa-1l / erc combination, running xlr's.
Both my wife and myself heard a tremendous difference, and we believe an improvement, over any of my past systems. (Tube/solid state/hybrid...I 've had them all). I was shocked on how the top end of the B&W's was tamed down. My wife thinks I am crazy, but I feel the B&W's can be a little bright. Funny thing is this didn 't happen until I replaced my integrated amp (using preamp section only with xpa-1l's for amps) with the xsp-1. BIG difference!!!
I've been a gearhead way too long and wasted too much time and money putting focus on the hardware, searching for the holy grail, and not enjoying the music, because I was too immersed in the hardware. It's sad really...just sad...
Believe it or not, I've got more money invested in cables and speaker wire than I do for the cost of these three pieces ...and have not heard my system sound better.
Finally, I am at a point, ( end game if you will ) where I am spending more time listening to music and looking for music to buy. I'm having much more fun building my music library.
If my xsp-1 was destroyed , i would buy another without question and without shopping around for comparable products.
I can't imagine anyone being disappointed with the xsp-1.
Here is another way to look at it, how easy is it to find an xsp-1 on the used market??? Virtually impossible...I searched for 2 months, with no success.
Hope that helps.....Best of luck on whatever you choose.
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Post by moko on Jan 13, 2014 9:09:02 GMT -5
well, chances are when oppo come and you use their dac it will sound brighter compared to dac in p5 (although based on some reviews here oppo's dac delivers great dynamics). and you will need even warmer pre-amp which will lead you to tube pre-amp. instead of buying expensive tube pre-amp with remote, why not adding a tube buffer on xsp-1's procesor loop ? this way you could get warmer sound, convenience (because you might change oppo to warmer sounding source somewhere in the future) and bass management for dual subwoofers which i never see in a tube pre-amp.
hope it helps,
moko
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Post by roadrunner on Jan 13, 2014 9:56:34 GMT -5
Danny, it has been a long time since I got started in serious audio equipment -- back in the early 1960s. I started by building Heath Kit and Dynaco preamps, then started checking out tuner/preamps and then finally going into high-end preamps. Below is a partial list of vintage preamps that I have owned. I have also listened to high-end gear of friends and neighbor over the years. I no longer remember the model numbers of most of them. Too much water under the bridge, but many of them were high-end gear from European vendors. Hopefully, this will give you a better feel just how good the Emotiva XSP-1 really is.  Luxman C-02 Scott LC-21 HEATH KIT ?? DYNACO PAT-4 MARANTZ 7T AUDIO RESEARCH SP3 HK CITATION McINTOSH MX-115 PARASOUND HALO P3 EMOTIVA USP-1 EMOTIVA XSP-1 |
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ransom
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Post by ransom on Jan 13, 2014 18:33:17 GMT -5
Ok, I'm finally registered , but I opened this thing up. Thank you all very much for the input. Roadrunner, it is actually very helpful to hear some of your experience with the pre-amps you listed, particularly since the P3 is on the list. The P5 I have is an upgrade from that, but still in the same ballpark and design I'll bet. Good good info. The graph showing the Triton II spike in the upper frequency range is interesting (I can't say I've listened for it yet), but it also lends credence the tubes argument, as they can roll off a little up top and down low, but highlight the wonderful mids in these speakers. I think it will boil down to my ears and how this specific pairing works out. Either way, I'm looking forward to it. The oppo will be here in a few days for some listening tests and soon and XSP-1 as well . It will be an all XLR setup for the XSP audition. It's good to hear the nice personal reviews as well. Thank you for the feedback! |
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Post by ransom on Jan 13, 2014 18:43:10 GMT -5
I believe in system synergy. These products were made to work with each other. I was shocked on how the top end of the B&W's was tamed down. My wife thinks I am crazy, but I feel the B&W's can be a little bright. Funny thing is this didn 't happen until I replaced my integrated amp (using preamp section only with xpa-1l's for amps) with the xsp-1. BIG difference!!! Finally, I am at a point, ( end game if you will ) where I am spending more time listening to music and looking for music to buy. I'm having much more fun building my music library. Hope that helps.....Best of luck on whatever you choose. Good for you! That is a great place to be in. Since my equipment is so new (only 20-25 hours on the Tritons and accompanying gear) I definitely haven't settled in yet. In particular, I like to hear about a preamp removing brightness. Anything that suggest less ear fatigue is a huge plus. |
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ransom
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Post by ransom on Jan 13, 2014 18:57:24 GMT -5
" I listen for hours and my ears are easily fatigued due to tinnitus" IMO, my immediate thought is to look at your speakers. So many of the newer speakers tend to have a FR peak above 10Hz or so. A few year back my speakers with a metal tweeter and somewhat rising FR above 12kHz made for fatiguing listening. My wife and I were both frequently irritated after a short time with both music and movies. After buying my Emo Reference speakers with the ultra smooth silk dome and also the Emo Airmotiv4 for my PC system (folded ribbon HF driver with no peak), we were very happy and no more fatigue even after many hours. S&V review test for the GoldenEar Technology Triton Two www.soundandvision.com/content/test-report-goldenear-technology-triton-two-tower-speakers-page-4 Stereophile review test for the GoldenEar Technology Triton Two www.stereophile.com/content/goldenear-technology-triton-two-loudspeaker-measurementsOh, maybe a misunderstanding, but I was saying that these speakers aren't fatiguing to my ears in spite of the fact I have tinnitus. I guess my wording could have been better . As to the graph, look at what they said about those graphs and that spike in particular... "While fig.3 suggests that even with the cloth cover in place, the tweeter's output is a bit hot in the top octave, this will add a little air to the sound rather than sounding tipped up. However, the Triton Two's lateral dispersion (fig.4) suggests that, in a typical room, this slight excess will also be offset by the fact that the tweeter becomes more directional in the same region, the result being a neutrally balanced treble, as RD found in his auditioning. Overall, this speaker's off-axis behavior is smooth and even. In the vertical plane (fig.5), suckouts develop in the mid-treble for extreme off-axis angles, but the Triton Two maintains its balance over quite a wide window centered on the tweeter axis, which is 39" from the floor." This is probably why I didn't notice anything unpleasant during my auditions and in home experience either... |
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Post by aboroth00 on Jan 15, 2014 20:53:54 GMT -5
I like the idea of the 105 of the preamp. Not the best volume control out there but if you're not looking for a lot of analog inputs it'll definitely do. If you want warmth, you can also look into a fairly inexpensive tube preamp. I like your thinking. Do you have suggestions for such an inexpensive tube preamp? I don't really know preamps as well, but i've heard a few integrated models. I don't want to lose too much precision and too much bass control mind you and I'm just assuming that keeping these will quickly push me out of any area remotely conceived of as "inexpensive." I suppose I could go used. Vincent has a hybrid that has my interest (SA-31MK), but isn't exactly cheap at 1600.00. The Vincent you mention uses tubes for its inputs to add the warmth. Yes it does retail for around as you mentioned 1.6k but usually used, you can find it for ~700$. I can't speak for the sounds but I'm guessing it sounds a little tubey due to the tubes . As for tube preamps, you can find a reasonably priced Rogue, ARC, BAT, CJ, Dared preamps for around you would find the XSP-1 new. Of course, depending on what kind of sound you're looking for tight deep bass and crystal clear highs vs. tubey mids, not so refined mids, slightly rolled off highs, it'll direct you to which preamp you should choose. As for loss of precision and bass control, BAT, Rogue, ARC preamps definitely have more of a solid state character. I don't ever think that my BAT preamp isn't sharp enough and it has superb bass. But I'm running a solid state amp, a Pass Aleph J so I'm not fully into tubes. However, you have to weigh in the cost of rolling tubes. For a fully balanced preamp with bass management, the XSP-1 looks great but if you don't have a balanced amp or source then it might be less critical to go with something balanced. |
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ransom
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Post by ransom on Jan 19, 2014 3:24:23 GMT -5
So I recently heard some prima luna tube pres and powers and I really enjoyed them, particularly their new Dialogue Premium Integrated. I also read about these products pairing very favorably with my speakers in particular in several reviews, both from users and professional reviewers. Really it all boils down to personal preference. I have a great appreciation for the sonic accuracy of solid state and I can see why many would prefer this to tubes as some have said in this thread. I'm enjoying what I'm hearing right now from the 1-Ls, but I'm finding I like tubes even more the more I hear them. To each his own. Just follow your ears and enjoy the music I say. What I can't stand is how people can get snobby for one side of the fence or the other or between brands and unfortunately I think Emotiva fans have to put up with such crap pretty often, right? Just yesterday I spoke with a guy talking smack about Emotiva and I just smiled. Clearly he wasn't listening objectively to their products and was just spouting his bias. Perhaps if these products should be 5x the cost he would give them praise! Anyhow, whatever you like, you like. Don't let someone give you grief just because you saved a lot of money with your 1-Ls. Just a few days ago I picked up a Parasound A21 to compare to the 1-L's just for a fun demo run and Emotiva did great! I'll save that for another thread to share what I observed. I did want to give a little feedback on a few comparisons I made since I received the Oppo 105. Many have said that the Oppo is initally bright and a bit harsh, really punishing you for lower grade source material that may remain in your digital music collection. I found this to be true as well. It is also possible there is a break in period and many have claimed that with some hours it turns into a very nice DAC/Source. I haven't gotten there yet, but I only have about 15 hours on it so far. I'll have it on duty over the next week while I sleep to get to the first 100 hours quickly and we shall see if it blooms into something more pleasant (hopefully)or stays harsh. The P5 is much more forgiving and handles highs with more finesse for the moment, but it has a lot more hours on it as I near the end of my demo period. Some mentioned using the Oppo as a preamp. I was curious about this as well, but I wouldn't recommend this unless you were on a budget. After hearing it hooked up to the 1-L's directly, I was almost immediately saying to myself, "NO way!" This is a relativistic impression mind you, but when I hooked the P5 preamp back up it was a big improvement in detail and softness. Maybe it would be better if it breaks in, but I doubt it is going to compare to a preamp separate at any point. No real surprise here. Hmm, better stop. This post is getting long |
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ransom
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Post by ransom on Jan 19, 2014 3:35:13 GMT -5
The Vincent you mention uses tubes for its inputs to add the warmth. Yes it does retail for around as you mentioned 1.6k but usually used, you can find it for ~700$. I can't speak for the sounds but I'm guessing it sounds a little tubey due to the tubes . As for tube preamps, you can find a reasonably priced Rogue, ARC, BAT, CJ, Dared preamps for around you would find the XSP-1 new. Of course, depending on what kind of sound you're looking for tight deep bass and crystal clear highs vs. tubey mids, not so refined mids, slightly rolled off highs, it'll direct you to which preamp you should choose. As for loss of precision and bass control, BAT, Rogue, ARC preamps definitely have more of a solid state character. I don't ever think that my BAT preamp isn't sharp enough and it has superb bass. But I'm running a solid state amp, a Pass Aleph J so I'm not fully into tubes. However, you have to weigh in the cost of rolling tubes. For a fully balanced preamp with bass management, the XSP-1 looks great but if you don't have a balanced amp or source then it might be less critical to go with something balanced. Sweet! Thanks for the recommendations. I think I have heard of them all except for BAT. I'll look into them, but at the moment I'm leaning towards Prima Luna. The build quality on these is impressive and good reviews are seemingly unending. I don't mind the cost of tubes so much, as it gives you the chance to try out different sounds. Like some people say, it's not that you "have to" roll tubes, rather you "get to." What model is your BAT? |
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ransom
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Post by ransom on Jan 19, 2014 3:36:06 GMT -5
Nevermind, got it |
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Post by danny01 on Jan 19, 2014 4:30:23 GMT -5
Great writeup! I'm VERY interested on hearing your thoughts on the A21 vs the 1L as I have been considering trying out the Parasound to see how it compares to my 1L's.
Sent from my HTC6500LVW using proboards
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Should be interesting. I'll keep an eye on availability.
Quite the compliment by the reviewer indeed. What gives me some pause is some of the descriptors he used here to characterize the experience such as..."Clarity, detail, neutrality (page 3 of review)." Now for some people words like this are, well, music to their ears. For me, a guy who likes some warmth to color the playback--which may in fact be mild distortion that comes into tubes commonly and some SS and preamps (I won't pretend to know how for each)--I simply pause to ask whether this detail will be taxing. Isn't there something to this question for everyone? I assume Emotiva added Class A bias to the newer lines because there is something quite pleasing to it that more than a few people appreciate. Anyhow, the question simply cannot be answered without giving them a try as Emotiva's best offering in a preamp. Perhaps I will say, screw warmth, this accuracy/detail is exquisite! Or I may say, I can see why hardcore audiophiles would love this, but for my ears this is too fatiguing and I need some warmer sounds so I can listen for hours on end. We shall see. Given Dan's offer, I can't see any reason I shouldn't give them a chance. And, by the way, I must point out that you aren't hearing this comparison discussion brought up from me about the 1-L's, so props to Emotiva!
