|
|
Post by audiobill on Jan 19, 2014 5:45:36 GMT -5
The Vincent you mention uses tubes for its inputs to add the warmth. Yes it does retail for around as you mentioned 1.6k but usually used, you can find it for ~700$. I can't speak for the sounds but I'm guessing it sounds a little tubey due to the tubes  . As for tube preamps, you can find a reasonably priced Rogue, ARC, BAT, CJ, Dared preamps for around you would find the XSP-1 new. Of course, depending on what kind of sound you're looking for tight deep bass and crystal clear highs vs. tubey mids, not so refined mids, slightly rolled off highs, it'll direct you to which preamp you should choose. As for loss of precision and bass control, BAT, Rogue, ARC preamps definitely have more of a solid state character. I don't ever think that my BAT preamp isn't sharp enough and it has superb bass. But I'm running a solid state amp, a Pass Aleph J so I'm not fully into tubes. However, you have to weigh in the cost of rolling tubes. For a fully balanced preamp with bass management, the XSP-1 looks great but if you don't have a balanced amp or source then it might be less critical to go with something balanced. Sweet! Thanks for the recommendations. I think I have heard of them all except for BAT. I'll look into them, but at the moment I'm leaning towards Prima Luna. The build quality on these is impressive and good reviews are seemingly unending. I don't mind the cost of tubes so much, as it gives you the chance to try out different sounds. Like some people say, it's not that you "have to" roll tubes, rather you "get to." What model is your BAT? Having owned BAT components, don't look to them for anything but very neutral accuracy, and this goes foe Audio Research as well. The whole idea that well designed and built balanced tube equipment is "warm" is a misconception, IMO. |
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Jan 19, 2014 6:37:38 GMT -5
Tubes? BAT, Audio Research, or Rogue Audio. Maybe Conrad Johnson. My choice would be Audio Research.
If you're on a budget, plenty of Chinese options.
Solid State? Emotiva & McIntosh. Lots of other good brands in the high end, too, but I've not owned them, so I couldn't say.
On a budget? Plenty of choices including the Parasound that the OP already has.
|
|
ransom
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 8 
|
Post by ransom on Jan 20, 2014 5:31:20 GMT -5
Sweet! Thanks for the recommendations. I think I have heard of them all except for BAT. I'll look into them, but at the moment I'm leaning towards Prima Luna. The build quality on these is impressive and good reviews are seemingly unending. I don't mind the cost of tubes so much, as it gives you the chance to try out different sounds. Like some people say, it's not that you "have to" roll tubes, rather you "get to." What model is your BAT? Having owned BAT components, don't look to them for anything but very neutral accuracy, and this goes foe Audio Research as well. The whole idea that well designed and built balanced tube equipment is "warm" is a misconception, IMO. Thanks for the feedback on the BAT. Also, it is possible that the word "warm" is more a misnomer unfairly attributed to tubes rather than a misconception about quality. More than likely it is a word associated with tube pre/power as relative to solid state. I think what most people mean by "warm" is that tube sound has a sonic character that is noticeably distinct to solid state and probably is often warmer in addition to this unique quality. So maybe the word warm just gets tossed in there too much when that isn't what people mean exactly. I'll speak for myself by saying it isn't always what I mean either. Maybe smooth is a better word. With respect to each other, I have no doubt some tube designs will show more neutral qualities than others (good to know your impressions of the BAT in that sense) and, true, warmth isn't necessarily a sign of quality, but I would add it is a quality some people like. I would also say that the opposite is not necessarily true either, namely that a neutral sound isn't necessarily a sign of build quality. From what I understand, changes relative from one pre or power to another also has a LOT to do with the tubes paired in that particular amp, though maybe those differences are smaller with preamps. I don't know personally just yet, as I haven't compared tube preamps to other tube preamps yet. With regard to tube power amps though, a tube change can bring subtle changes or pretty drastic ones. That much I have heard personally on the same integrated amp. The El34, for example, would be what I would call a "warm" sounding tube vs say a KT120 on the same amp and many love it for vocals for that reason. The EL34 would probably cause any tube power amp to sound warmer, relatively speaking, and give no indication as to build quality of the amp whatsoever. At any rate, to boil down my point, I'm willing to bet that if the BAT is "neutral" as you describe as a preamp, that it will remain distinct in a significant way from solid state and would probably change sonically with different tubes as well, perhaps even moving away from "neutral" a bit. Personally, I think that the word smooth would be better than warm and I might likewise like the BAT, or a lot of tube preamps, for that reason. Heck, maybe I'll go 100% tube and get an integrated. Certain tubes like the EL-34 add a kind of glow, if you will, to vocals that I like. Thanks for the input everyone. I think I'm very predictably leaning toward the gear I've personally heard on demo. Now to get them in home, on my speakers, for a real demo. I'll try to get my impressions of the A21 vs the 1-L up in a new thread soon. |
|
|
|
Post by moko on Jan 20, 2014 7:28:54 GMT -5
well, if it wasn't for oppo you would not have to spend more to tame that brightness, don't you think ? do you plan to build a HT set with oppo ? personally for 2 channel system i prefer laptop + dac (smoother sounding one)+ pre-amp + power. i don't think it makes sense to spend more money on pre-amp than power amp(s). have you consider a tube buffer ? found this on amazon. www.amazon.com/YAQIN-Stereo-Upgrade-Buffer-Processor/dp/B00DYHU0G0maybe there's also one with el-34 tubes. |
|
|
|
Post by Dan Laufman on Jan 20, 2014 10:19:51 GMT -5
That XSP-1 sure seems like the way to go... I heard they are in stock!  |
|
|
|
Post by solidstate on Jan 20, 2014 10:47:39 GMT -5
Hi everyone! I've been reading about these amps for a long time and, after a nice December at work, I took the plunge and purchased a pair of these mono blocks to pair with some Goldenear Triton 2's towers I've been wanting for a while. Right now I'm looking for suggestions before my return period for the Parasound p5 preamp is up. Not that there is anything wrong with it, but I need more comparisons before time is up. Unfortunately the XSP-1 isn't available right now or that would be thrown into the mix for sure. I bought the P5 because it has a pretty good DAC and parasound has a reputation for adding some warmth, which I like. So far I love the setup, but then again, I don't have much as a reference either . So, to complicate matters...I have an Oppo 105 on the way, so I can compare the DAC in the Oppo with that of the P5. Since I will have the Oppo potentially taking over DAC duty, the P5 won't be a must if another preamp may be better or maybe unnecessary altogether if the Oppo alone as a preamp doesn't hurt SQ too much. Hopefully my convoluted writing is making all this clear. So, the evaluation will be an oppo directly to the mono blocks (acting as a preamp with no P5 help) vs. Oppo on DAC duty combined with P5 as preamp vs. the existing setup of the P5 running DAC duty and preamp...I would love one more contender in there in the preamp role just to make things interesting. Since I like warmer sounds, a tube preamp is a consideration or maybe a hybrid like a Vincent. Thoughts? You guys know how the audio bug can be once it bites. It has bitten  ...I just want to be sure I spend my money as best I can before my 30 day period(s) end. If you need a good preamp I'd take a look at this unit but with the XSP-1 you're getting more for your dollar. www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/category/74030/117839/17873PS they also have a decent DAC that matches in athetics |
|
|
|
Post by danr43 on Jan 20, 2014 18:27:48 GMT -5
That XSP-1 sure seems like the way to go... I heard they are in stock! No kidding? I have been checking incessantly for " unavailable" to disappear from the XSP-1 web page. Should I phone in to place my order? |
|
|
|
Post by Gary Cook on Jan 20, 2014 19:17:14 GMT -5
To my ears tube "warmth" is best described as "2nd order harmonics added". To some ears this addition of 2nd order harmonics makes the sound appear more pleasant, smoother or the common misnomer warmer. It has been my experience that tube circuits that have significant 3rd order harmonics usually include a transformer. Some ears have a preference for both 2nd and 3rd order harmonics. If the original recording doesn't have any harmonics then my ears expect that my system shouldn't add it. If I wanted to listen to a recording with harmonics then I would buy one with the harmonics recorded the way the artist/engineer intended. Obviously my ears are in the "listen to it the way it was recorded" camp, warts and all.
Cheers
Gary
|
|
ransom
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 8
|
Post by ransom on Jan 22, 2014 21:23:11 GMT -5
well, if it wasn't for oppo you would not have to spend more to tame that brightness, don't you think ? do you plan to build a HT set with oppo ? personally for 2 channel system i prefer laptop + dac (smoother sounding one)+ pre-amp + power. i don't think it makes sense to spend more money on pre-amp than power amp(s). have you consider a tube buffer ? found this on amazon. www.amazon.com/YAQIN-Stereo-Upgrade-Buffer-Processor/dp/B00DYHU0G0maybe there's also one with el-34 tubes. Yes, you make a good point. The oppo is the real source of the harshness in my system at the moment, but I am planning on doing HT in analogue in the future, so I hope with a few more hours on it the Oppo mellows out a bit. The plan at this point is to do SS for HT setup and tubes for music 2.1. Doing separates throughout definitely allows for more fine tuning to one's liking, which is always a plus. I just sent back the P5 since I ran out of time for my evaluation vs others, but I got a good taste of what it can do and it's a nice unit. It really mellowed out the Oppo for me and, again, I can't emphasize enough that I would never recommend an Oppo without a preamp. I agree with you Moko, it doesn't make sense to spend more on pre than power, so I'll limit my budget accordingly. I checked the link and they are out at the moment, but it looks like a very nice budget solution to getting the sound I like out of SS..I doubt it would sound better than a tube pre that was 1,000-1,400 though. Just my thought. |
|
|
|
Post by aboroth00 on Jan 25, 2014 7:01:50 GMT -5
The Vincent you mention uses tubes for its inputs to add the warmth. Yes it does retail for around as you mentioned 1.6k but usually used, you can find it for ~700$. I can't speak for the sounds but I'm guessing it sounds a little tubey due to the tubes . As for tube preamps, you can find a reasonably priced Rogue, ARC, BAT, CJ, Dared preamps for around you would find the XSP-1 new. Of course, depending on what kind of sound you're looking for tight deep bass and crystal clear highs vs. tubey mids, not so refined mids, slightly rolled off highs, it'll direct you to which preamp you should choose. As for loss of precision and bass control, BAT, Rogue, ARC preamps definitely have more of a solid state character. I don't ever think that my BAT preamp isn't sharp enough and it has superb bass. But I'm running a solid state amp, a Pass Aleph J so I'm not fully into tubes. However, you have to weigh in the cost of rolling tubes. For a fully balanced preamp with bass management, the XSP-1 looks great but if you don't have a balanced amp or source then it might be less critical to go with something balanced. Sweet! Thanks for the recommendations. I think I have heard of them all except for BAT. I'll look into them, but at the moment I'm leaning towards Prima Luna. The build quality on these is impressive and good reviews are seemingly unending. I don't mind the cost of tubes so much, as it gives you the chance to try out different sounds. Like some people say, it's not that you "have to" roll tubes, rather you "get to." What model is your BAT? I'm currently using a VK-3, older model, using 6dj8/6922 rather than the 6H30. As far as Primaluna goes, they're the new guys to the game but from what I'm hearing, they're good but not the end all. My dealer had a Primaluna 4? and we both agreed that Rogue bested it handily, however Rogue gear is a tad cheaper. I've been hearing Kevin Deal has been trying to find dealers for the Primaluna, but not many are biting to get Primaluna into their showrooms. |
|
|
|
Post by solidstate on Jan 28, 2014 6:06:24 GMT -5
I've curious if any of you have heard of the "Tap System" of DIY modular preamps? It was a commercial prefab under the name TAP-X and is considered one of the best passives available. www.bentaudio.com/index2.htmlVERY VERY COOL |
|
|
|
Post by leonski on Feb 3, 2014 21:36:49 GMT -5
Have a look at the Parasound P5
It includes a nice DAC section, bass management AND a phono input. Priced right at about 1100$, which is NOT out of the question.
The ONLY fly in the ointment is that it is NOT a balanced design, so even though it does have balanced ins / outs you can't take full advantage of that fever.
If I had the 1Ls, I'd try to wrangle a balanced preamp….perhaps the XSP-1 G2, which is now all surface mount and very clean inside.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dr.splatbar on Feb 10, 2014 18:00:54 GMT -5
To OP Guest: "Now, what I really loved with my Tritons was a tube amp, but most of them are lacking in power and bass control and the ones that don't have this problem are WAY out of my price range. I bet your Carver VTA-180 sounds pretty sweet! "
I wouldn't worry much about using a tube amp or integrated with the Triton 2's -- they have their own dedicated 1200 watt amp for the woofers/subs and so most of the quality of sound in that range will be determined by the built in amp. They are renowned for being "easy" to drive even with very low powered amps. DO buy the tube amp/integrated for the overall beauty of the sound. I have my Triton 2's currently powered by Rogue Audio 180 Mono Blocks and it's fantastic. I listen mostly to classical music but even when I put on pop or Floyd or Zeppelin, the bass is truly awesome. Perhaps look into Rogue's Cronus Magnum Integrated. I haven't heard that combination but I'd bet the Rogue works beautifully.
|
|
. As for tube preamps, you can find a reasonably priced Rogue, ARC, BAT, CJ, Dared preamps for around you would find the XSP-1 new. Of course, depending on what kind of sound you're looking for tight deep bass and crystal clear highs vs. tubey mids, not so refined mids, slightly rolled off highs, it'll direct you to which preamp you should choose. As for loss of precision and bass control, BAT, Rogue, ARC preamps definitely have more of a solid state character. I don't ever think that my BAT preamp isn't sharp enough and it has superb bass. But I'm running a solid state amp, a Pass Aleph J so I'm not fully into tubes. However, you have to weigh in the cost of rolling tubes. For a fully balanced preamp with bass management, the XSP-1 looks great but if you don't have a balanced amp or source then it might be less critical to go with something balanced. 
...I just want to be sure I spend my money as best I can before my 30 day period(s) end.
