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Post by jedinite24 on Jan 16, 2014 13:58:28 GMT -5
One thing I forgot to mention earlier is the reason why I go through this ritual of playing something or having a signal pass through it for 200-300 hours is that if you question why something doesn't sound good the first thing I've heard people say through the years is Did you break in the gear. I figure just take that step out of it and focus on something else if it is the problem.
Part of me believes it is an "accommodation" process like Keith mentions above. I remember one time when I first got the UPA line of speaker wire I did my usual break-in ritual and gave my system a listen with the UPA speaker wire in place. I heard some harshness or something irritating in the music. Played the same music a day or so later after spending some more time with the UPA speaker wires and no problem.
Anyway sorry for the distraction.
Just play the ERC-3 and enjoy the music. If you have a problem then you could easily return it in 30 days.
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Post by thepcguy on Jan 16, 2014 14:01:54 GMT -5
10001010011000010000100100101010010101010101011010111010111101010110111011001010101 after burn-in? 10001010011000010000100100101010010101010101011010111010111101010110111011001010101more hours? 10001010011000010000100100101010010101010101011010111010111101010110111011001010101So in other words after burn in the data becomes slanted and after even more hours it is louder? no, the bits become faster (leaning forward) then after more hours become clearer (no need to wear glasses). |
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Post by gravi on Jan 16, 2014 14:17:34 GMT -5
A few more things actually: - The soundstage becomes wider and deeper by an extra 20 feet - The horn section comes 10 feet closer - The vocalist seems to step in to the room rather than on the stage - The bass becomes less muddy and more taut - Treble turns 40 percent warmer - Mids are less colored with subtle inflections Ah, the comedy of audiophool speak! So in other words after burn in the data becomes slanted and after even more hours it is louder? no, the bits become faster (leaning forward) then after more hours become clearer (no need to wear glasses). |
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Post by Gary Cook on Jan 16, 2014 15:05:27 GMT -5
Hi Gary: Might what you're saying about speakers also apply to headphones? I am talking about mid to upper level headphones... I know this is also another can of worms.... The sound of such headphones may depend on the DACS and headphone amps to which they're attached at any given time...Some even argue that the headphone cable in use might make a difference (in the interest of full disclosure, I have been using aftermarket custom built cables for my higher end Sennheisers, ever since I noticed a significant difference after one such customized cable replacement... )...But assuming we have a hypothetical situation in which a given headphone is provided with the best possible DAC and amp and cable it matches with, would it be possible to observe some type of "break - in" evolution in its sq? I thought I should ask since you seem to have a lot of experience with audio gear. Hi, I think Keith probably addressed your question very well and I don't have much to add. I'm not a big headphones user, I've probably owned less headphones in my life than any other piece of audio gear. Headphones are really just small speakers and as a result will mechanically loosen up over time. I have certainly heard a difference with a new pair out of the box and an older pair (same brand and model) that were well and truly run in. Even the pads conform more closely to the ears/head after a few hours of wear and so they may sound better as a result of the better fit. They are certainly more comfortable to wear, which might make them appear to sound better just on its own. How long is a tougher question, I suspect with the materials used theses days not very long, maybe only a few hours. Cheers Gary |
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emovac
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Post by emovac on Jan 16, 2014 16:13:59 GMT -5
Most likely explanation is your ears adjusted to the player.
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Post by jmilton on Jan 16, 2014 17:13:27 GMT -5
A few more things actually: - The soundstage becomes wider and deeper by an extra 20 feet - The horn section comes 10 feet closer - The vocalist seems to step in to the room rather than on the stage - The bass becomes less muddy and more taut - Treble turns 40 percent warmer - Mids are less colored with subtle inflections Ah, the comedy of audiophool speak! no, the bits become faster (leaning forward) then after more hours become clearer (no need to wear glasses). It's been said 34.578% of all statistic are made up... |
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Jan 16, 2014 17:19:55 GMT -5
A few more things actually: - The soundstage becomes wider and deeper by an extra 20 feet - The horn section comes 10 feet closer - The vocalist seems to step in to the room rather than on the stage - The bass becomes less muddy and more taut - Treble turns 40 percent warmer - Mids are less colored with subtle inflections Ah, the comedy of audiophool speak! It's been said 34.578% of all statistic are made up... For the millionth time... do not exaggerate! |
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Post by thepcguy on Jan 16, 2014 18:35:57 GMT -5
It's been said 34.578% of all statistic are made up... For the millionth time... do not exaggerate! 1000000 See? even a million is made of '1's and '0's  |
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Post by briank on Jan 16, 2014 18:55:07 GMT -5
Break in of electronic components always gives me a giggle. I am currently looking at new headphones as well and see a lot of posts about that. I always say "how do they know when to stop breaking in?". Why do they sound better after X number of hours and then hold that spot? Listen to competent engineers, there is no real break-in for this stuff. Even speakers, with actual moving parts, don't really do so. Measurements and DBTs show this to be true. However, audio is a strange hobby seeming to occupy the center area of a Venn diagram consisting of science, music appreciation and religion. Tim Not true regarding speakers. In addition to hearing obvious differences, I measured my speakers when they were 2-3 days old and again a few weeks later and the differences were clear in the measurements as well. No gear or room changes took place during this time period.   |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Jan 16, 2014 19:00:07 GMT -5
The appropriate burn in for a CD player, IMHO, is the time it takes for me to walk back to the couch from dropping the disk into the tray, hitting the button to close the drawer, and hit "play".
Seriously...never heard any difference over time on a CD player or other basic electronics. Speaker, though? Yes...
Mark
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Post by monkumonku on Jan 16, 2014 19:00:56 GMT -5
Break in of electronic components always gives me a giggle. I am currently looking at new headphones as well and see a lot of posts about that. I always say "how do they know when to stop breaking in?". Why do they sound better after X number of hours and then hold that spot? Listen to competent engineers, there is no real break-in for this stuff. Even speakers, with actual moving parts, don't really do so. Measurements and DBTs show this to be true. However, audio is a strange hobby seeming to occupy the center area of a Venn diagram consisting of science, music appreciation and religion. Tim Not true regarding speakers. In addition to hearing obvious differences, I measured my speakers when they were 2-3 days old and again a few weeks later and the differences were clear in the measurements as well. No gear or room changes took place during this time period. So there! That's interesting. Can you post the results here? |
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Post by briank on Jan 16, 2014 19:04:59 GMT -5
Not true regarding speakers. In addition to hearing obvious differences, I measured my speakers when they were 2-3 days old and again a few weeks later and the differences were clear in the measurements as well. No gear or room changes took place during this time period. So there! That's interesting. Can you post the results here? Now I've created work for myself. Lol. I'm out enjoying some Mexican food right now but I'll look for photos of my measurements when I get home. I saved them to post awhile back but never got around to it. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Jan 16, 2014 19:12:02 GMT -5
On speakers,as I see it (as an engineer), their moving parts are subject to hysteresis and force decay in the materials that move. In simple terms..the force for them to extend forward and return in a response to the incoming signal from the magnet causing the extension/retraction gets lower from first movement to subsequent movements. At some point, the moving parts reach the state at which no further change results. This effect is common in materials operating below their yield point/strain level required to cause permanent deformation.
You can feel this in stretching a new rubber band vs. One you have pulled several times.
This effect is why I have always felt I could here differences in speakers over time. But basic circuits...no.
Mark
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Post by briank on Jan 16, 2014 19:45:45 GMT -5
I've heard break in changes with amps but only in the first couple of hours. Maybe it was the caps "forming" I don't know.
I think the long term break in that people are hearing is their ears/brain adjusting to the sound. I've had this happen to me but I had a separate system as a point of reference that helped me conclude that what was actually breaking in was me.
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Post by briank on Jan 16, 2014 20:07:54 GMT -5
That's interesting. Can you post the results here? Now I've created work for myself. Lol. I'm out enjoying some Mexican food right now but I'll look for photos of my measurements when I get home. I saved them to post awhile back but never got around to it. Revel Performa 3 speakers as measured on 7/29/13 when "new".  |
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Post by briank on Jan 16, 2014 20:09:33 GMT -5
Performa 3 speaker measurements taken on 9/11/13 showing an improved smoother response. No other changes in room or gear.  |
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Post by tweed on Jan 16, 2014 21:04:54 GMT -5
Brian
Those are some interesting graphs! Thanks for digging them up.
I can assure you that I'm loving my Revel's
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Post by monkumonku on Jan 16, 2014 22:05:48 GMT -5
Performa 3 speaker measurements taken on 9/11/13 showing an improved smoother response. No other changes in room or gear. Thanks for posting! I have to say I am a little confused though - is the comparison to be made between the red line response curves on the graphs in each picture? I can see the 2nd one does look smoother but why is it 10 db or so lower than the 1st one? |
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Jan 16, 2014 22:24:10 GMT -5
For the millionth time... do not exaggerate! 1000000 See? even a million is made of '1's and '0's Yes but without the '1' the '0's don't mean a thing!  |
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Post by briank on Jan 16, 2014 22:30:08 GMT -5
Performa 3 speaker measurements taken on 9/11/13 showing an improved smoother response. No other changes in room or gear. Thanks for posting! I have to say I am a little confused though - is the comparison to be made between the red line response curves on the graphs in each picture? I can see the 2nd one does look smoother but why is it 10 db or so lower than the 1st one? The Red line is the actual measurement and the dotted blue line is the "target" response. The 10 db difference is just me having the test noise level set lower(by accident in this case). I actually didn't notice the difference until I posted the pics. It's too bad b/c this makes it a less valid comparison. Take from it what you will. |
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