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Post by jackfish on Mar 15, 2019 20:27:22 GMT -5
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Post by jackfish on Mar 15, 2019 20:57:54 GMT -5
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Post by pallpoul on Mar 15, 2019 23:26:53 GMT -5
I just purchased a pair of PA-1's based on ur review boom. I will let you know how they would play in my system. View AttachmentMost interested in your impressions! Hi boom I was wondering how would the PA-1's mate with a tube pre amp?
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 16, 2019 0:31:18 GMT -5
I'd think, well, but you'd have to try. And if you're going to get a tube preamp, get a TUBE preamp!
So many of the tube preamps on the market these days are audibly indistinguishable from solid state preamps. Ones I've encountered that didn't have enough "romance" included models from Audio Research, McIntosh, and others. Certainly there must be some tube preamps that still sound like tubes? I see that Van Alstine and Tubes4HiFi.com both offer tube preamps, but I've actually heard neither. The last Jolida tube preamp I heard was actually fairly nice, too. So listen before you buy and make sure the "tube preamp" sounds the way you want. Many, to me, don't.
Boom
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 16, 2019 5:42:34 GMT -5
Schiit keeps improving their Yggie without actually changing the model number, so when I buy, I want their "latest-and-greatest." It'll happen sooner or later, but for now, I'm getting by with the Oppo UDP-205.
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Post by jackfish on Mar 16, 2019 8:16:26 GMT -5
Are you considering buying another PA-1 pair to biamp the T2s?
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Post by pallpoul on Mar 16, 2019 9:17:07 GMT -5
I'd think, well, but you'd have to try. And if you're going to get a tube preamp, get a TUBE preamp! So many of the tube preamps on the market these days are audibly indistinguishable from solid state preamps. Ones I've encountered that didn't have enough "romance" included models from Audio Research, McIntosh, and others. Certainly there must be some tube preamps that still sound like tubes? I see that Van Alstine and Tubes4HiFi.com both offer tube preamps, but I've actually heard neither. The last Jolida tube preamp I heard was actually fairly nice, too. So listen before you buy and make sure the "tube preamp" sounds the way you want. Many, to me, don't. Boom I am going to use the pre amp LP 3.1 by Dennis Had.
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Post by garbulky on Mar 16, 2019 10:21:53 GMT -5
Schiit keeps improving their Yggie without actually changing the model number This is a positive. Any Yggy can always be upgraded to the latest upgrade without paying for any intermediary upgrades. Every competitive company including emotiva refreshes their product line often. If I want a DC-2, I'm going to have to pay full $500 or $700 price for it. I can't send in my DC-1 to get it upgraded. But not in the case of the Schiit's upgradable dac lines where you want the new product? Pay for the significantly lower price of the upgrade at your own pace. The very first bifrost released seven years ago for 300 bucks can be upgraded to the very latest generation for AK DAC $100 (new product $300) or AD multbit dac $250 (new product $600). But yes, that yggy linked doesn't have the analog 2 board so if you wanted that board, it wouldn't be a good financial move to buy the used one.
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 16, 2019 15:31:32 GMT -5
Are you considering buying another PA-1 pair to biamp the T2s? Unlikely - I'm expecting the performance of the PA-1 amplifier and the T2 speaker to be absolutely stunning! Now there's an outside chance that if I apply parametric equalization to achieve a flatter & lower frequency response, the system might benefit from bi-amplification, but even then, I'm skeptical. The PA-1 puts out a LOT more power than I'll normally use - the T2 is an easy speaker to drive (both high sensitivity and low in reactance) - The amps will be placed on stands immediately behind the speakers with no more than three-foot long speaker cables - In short, I just don't anticipate any benefit from bi-amplification. That said, there's still a 50-50 chance that garbulky will nag me into ordering a second pair of PA-1s just to try it out. If the bi-amplified T2s surprise me, then the rig is certainly worth the extra $600 of amps.
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 16, 2019 15:38:30 GMT -5
And I'm halfway considering using a Jolida tube D-80 DAC (Black Ice Audio FX DAC DSD unbalanced) instead of the Yggie: GASP - GROAN - Why? I've heard it and it sounds GOOD - AND it has a built-in headphone amplifier..
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Post by jcam2881 on Mar 16, 2019 15:48:05 GMT -5
Are you considering buying another PA-1 pair to biamp the T2s? Unlikely - I'm expecting the performance of the PA-1 amplifier and the T2 speaker to be absolutely stunning! Now there's an outside chance that if I apply parametric equalization to achieve a flatter & lower frequency response, the system might benefit from bi-amplification, but even then, I'm skeptical. The PA-1 puts out a LOT more power than I'll normally use - the T2 is an easy speaker to drive (both high sensitivity and low in reactance) - The amps will be placed on stands immediately behind the speakers with no more than three-foot long speaker cables - In short, I just don't anticipate any benefit from bi-amplification. That said, there's still a 50-50 chance that garbulky will nag me into ordering a second pair of PA-1s just to try it out. If the bi-amplified T2s surprise me, then the rig is certainly worth the extra $600 of amps.
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Post by garbulky on Mar 16, 2019 16:02:14 GMT -5
And I'm halfway considering using a Jolida tube D-80 DAC (Black Ice Audio FX DAC DSD unbalanced) instead of the Yggie: GASP - GROAN - Why? I've heard it and it sounds GOOD - AND it has a built-in headphone amplifier.. Groan is right! Your flirtation with the Yggy is worse than Ross and Rachel on Friends!
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 16, 2019 17:36:16 GMT -5
Groan is right! Your flirtation with the Yggy is worse than Ross and Rachel on Friends! WAIT - WHOM has been flirting with the Yggy?? How many years has it been?
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Post by garbulky on Mar 16, 2019 17:53:34 GMT -5
Groan is right! Your flirtation with the Yggy is worse than Ross and Rachel on Friends! WAIT - WHOM has been flirting with the Yggy?? How many years has it been? Flirting? For me it's more like a long distance relationship!
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Post by frisco on Mar 16, 2019 23:49:14 GMT -5
Right now I’m running an xpa 200 with a jolida fusion preamp. Are the pa1s likely to be an upgrade. (Speakers are phasetech pa60, which are little hard to drive.)
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Post by adaboy on Mar 17, 2019 0:08:38 GMT -5
And I'm halfway considering using a Jolida tube D-80 DAC (Black Ice Audio FX DAC DSD unbalanced) instead of the Yggie: GASP - GROAN - Why? I've heard it and it sounds GOOD - AND it has a built-in headphone amplifier.. Do it!
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 17, 2019 3:23:21 GMT -5
Right now I’m running an xpa 200 with a jolida fusion preamp. Are the pa1s likely to be an upgrade. (Speakers are phasetech pa60, which are little hard to drive.) Hi, frisco - I couldn't say - I don't remember the XPA-200. I had several XPA-2 amps, and thought that those were excellent. Maybe someone else has the 200s? And might you have the Phase Technology PC-60 speakers instead of the "PA60" ones? If so, your speakers show a 4-ohm nominal impedance with a dip to a minimum of 3.2 ohms at about 175 Hz. ( SOURCE), The phase-angle gyrates pretty wildly too. But the biggest impediment to driving the speakers seems to be their 88 dB / 1w / 1m sensitivity, which is pretty low. Your existing XPA-200 is rated for 240 watts into 4 ohms, and the PA-1 amps are rated for only somewhere between 270 and 300 with the same load. So from a spec-reading alone, no, I wouldn't expect the PA-1 amps to drive your speakers louder than the amp you've already got. That said, would you hear a difference with the PA-1 amplifiers? I think you would. The PA-1s, being mono block amps, may give better channel separation and imaging that your present amplifier. The amp "voicing" may also be different. But will "different" actually be "better?" Only you can answer that. And might I ask you "Are you satisfied with your current speakers?" For the amount you propose to spend on amps, there are a BUNCH of other speakers on the market that benefit from decades of computer design and driver improvement since your 1984 Phase-Tech speakers were made. Might you be considering replacing the wrong components? Happy shopping! Boomzilla
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Post by brubacca on Mar 17, 2019 9:36:45 GMT -5
And I'm halfway considering using a Jolida tube D-80 DAC (Black Ice Audio FX DAC DSD unbalanced) instead of the Yggie: GASP - GROAN - Why? I've heard it and it sounds GOOD - AND it has a built-in headphone amplifier.. Check the archive here. I remember you owning the Jolida Tube DAC. It may have been version 2. Why do I rember this? Because at the time I was very interested in the product. If I remember correctly you really liked it.
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Post by frisco on Mar 17, 2019 10:09:18 GMT -5
Thanks, boomzilla. Yes, the minute I posted my message, I started thinking about whether it’s time for new speakers.
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 17, 2019 10:12:47 GMT -5
Hi brubacca - Yes - I did like the previous version of the Jolida FX model tube DAC. It was tied for first place in the DAC shoot-out that we held. But all the DACs in that comparison were Delta-Sigma DACs and no multi-bit ladder DACs were included. The Schiit Yggdrasil has been an "audiophile favorite" for YEARS now and has held its status against all competition. The Jolida product doesn't have such a reputation, being described as "an excellent value for the money." But again, what metrics were being applied when those reviews were being written? Did the reviewers compare performance ONLY, or was price, status, and finish also a part of the evaluations? Jolida (now "Black Ice Audio") has a reputation as a good "economy brand," while Schiit's reputation is somewhat more elevated. Would any review ever directly compare a Jolida DAC to the Schiit Yggdrasil - on the basis of performance ONLY? What reviewer would have the stones to claim that an economy component performed better (or even as well as) a "reviewers' darling" one? I'm not claiming that this is true, just theorizing the comparison... And even if multi-bit DAC technology DOES sound superior to Sigma-Delta ones, that still leaves the question of how much better a new Yggdrasil would sound when compared to other examples of multi-bit converters (Theta, anyone?). So although a DAC will probably be on my horizon to upgrade, what technology I'll consider is still up in the air. I might actually buy both a Black-Ice Audio AND a Yggdrasil for a comparative listening session, returning the loser. With either, I'd also need a MicroRendu Ultra or a SOtM 200 to get from Ethernet into the DAC. But should any "integrated solution" DAC turn up with its own Ethernet input, I'd feel obligated to at least consider that as well. Boom
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