|
Post by Boomzilla on Feb 16, 2019 6:58:42 GMT -5
I put the little Klipsch RP-600M speakers back into the system last night, and REALLY enjoyed their sound. They're very placement sensitive, so some speaker-dancing is required, but when they hit their sweet spot, they sing with the voice of angels. In my room, the little monitors want to be further out into the room than the majority of speakers I've tried and they also want to be farther apart. So the speakers are literally 1.5x the distance from each other than they are from the listener. Normally this placement creates either a hole in the middle or a discreet left-center-right image, but this can be tuned by toe-in. And a little toe-in does the trick - too much and the image gets lost.
|
|
|
Post by pallpoul on Feb 16, 2019 10:13:17 GMT -5
Boom, have you auditioned the Klipschorns?
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Feb 16, 2019 18:10:13 GMT -5
Boom, have you auditioned the Klipschorns? Is a bear Catholic? Does the Pope s**t in the woods? One of my all-time greatest speakers. That said, I've never owned any. Why? I never had a room with corners that could be used for their placement. Yeah, you can build "false corners," but I seriously doubt that they'd sound the same. Used as designed, and to my knowledge, the K-horns are STILL the lowest-measurable-IM-distortion speaker ever made - PERIOD. End of discussion. Yes - they have flaws - The horns can sound honky (more so at close distances) - the gross differences in driver time-alignment mean that you have to get back about 15-20 feet or more from them before the wavefront sounds integrated - and despite their size they just don't go down very low in the bass. Add to that the fact that they are NOT cheap and that you must have corners to place them in, and it's clear why they aren't the most popular speakers around. Nevertheless - there's nothing else like them, and may never be. Bravo uncle Paul! "Efficiency is inversely proportional to distortion"
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Feb 24, 2019 22:51:10 GMT -5
And for the fun of it, I put Annette's Klipsch Heresy speakers (generation 1) up on about 15 inch stands this evening paired with the stereo subs. Some serious repositioning was required. The Heresy speakers worked best significantly closer together than did the little RP-600M speakers. But work they do! I'd forgotten how good these can sound (particularly with subs). While these are spotted, I may drag out the Heathkit tube mono blocks again to see how they sound with the Heresy speakers.
Next in speaker rotation - some "Pro" JBL towers with horn tweeters, then back to the Thiels for ear calibration.
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Feb 28, 2019 8:56:28 GMT -5
The JBLs aren't in the same class as the other speakers. Of what's in the house, the Thiel CS 1.6 and the Klipsch Heresy, although very different, are at the top of the heap. The Klipsch RP-600m speakers are a very close second, held back only by their slightly thin midrange, and the JBLs trail all the others significantly. Without subwoofers, none of these speakers really succeeds in the bass in my room. With subs, the order slightly reverses - the RP-600m Klipsches join the top tier, and the Heresy speakers drop back to third place (the sub just doesn't do much for the Heresys as it does for the Thiel's and the little Klipsch monitors).
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Mar 2, 2019 17:54:26 GMT -5
Just a follow-up on the Audio GD HE-1 preamplifier. I've now used it with and without the downstream JL Audio CR-1 crossover, with a variety of power amplifiers, and with four different pairs of speakers. To make sure what I'm liking is being added by the preamp, I've periodically bypassed the preamp, driving everything downstream directly from the balanced, analog outputs of my Oppo UDP-205. And every time I go back to the Oppo, a sense of being in the original recording space is instantly and noticeably lost.
Now this is a poser. Was that "dimensionality" actually there on the original recording, and it took the preamp to bring it out - or is the Oppo's output the more accurate, and the preamp is "manufacturing" the sense of space? I just don't know. And since it's impossible to listen to the preamp without an audio source upstream, I may never know. But I will say that of all the preamps I've owned previously, none has the effect on music that the Audio GD does.
Now this brings up another issue as well. Can the majority of preamps I've owned and heard be "right" and still sound worse? I guess they can. I bring this up because in the Microrendu streamer thread, the proponents insisted that the device had more dramatic effects on poorer sounding recordings. So, ultimately, you CAN put lipstick on a pig. Is this preamp doing the same thing?
And, ignoring all the above questions, how do I like the Audio GD HE-1 preamp? At this point, you'd have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands to get it from me! Whether or not others care for the sound of this device, it continues to sound magical to me.
Boomzilla
|
|
|
Post by jackfish on Mar 2, 2019 18:52:35 GMT -5
Yes.
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Mar 8, 2019 12:09:06 GMT -5
Decision time approaches... Choice 1 is a used pair of GoldenEar Triton 1 speakers - HIGHLY reviewed - built in subs - but I've never heard them (or any of their kin) AT ALL - much less in my room. Choice 2 is a new pair of Emotiva T2s, with enough left over for a Yggdrasil DAC. I HAVE heard the T2s in my room, and other than the fact that their response doesn't go below 30 Hz., they're da schizz. Now before either choice becomes viable, I have to sell one more pair of speakers (to get them out of the way), or I have to give my audio amiga, Annette, back her pair of Klipsch Heresys. And I got the distinct impression that she loaned them to me because they were underfoot in her home (she's not actively using the Heresys, but rather her big La Scalas). I honestly think that I could probably live happily with either the GoldenEars or the T2s, and either option gets me out of the need to have a subwoofer and crossover in the system - a good thing for sure. The thought also nags at me that, should I opt for the GoldenEars, their built-in sub may not do it's grunt so well out away from the wall where the speakers will image best. I found a place with the T2s where both imaging and bass were acceptable, but positioning that works for one set of speakers may not for another set. So ultimately I'm leaning toward the Emotivas (and being pushed in that direction by garbulky, who wants me to get the Yggy so he can play with it too). But I'm open to suggestions. Thanks - Boomzilla
|
|
|
Post by fbczar on Mar 8, 2019 12:42:27 GMT -5
Decision time approaches... Choice 1 is a used pair of GoldenEar Triton 1 speakers - HIGHLY reviewed - built in subs - but I've never heard them (or any of their kin) AT ALL - much less in my room. Choice 2 is a new pair of Emotiva T2s, with enough left over for a Yggdrasil DAC. I HAVE heard the T2s in my room, and other than the fact that their response doesn't go below 30 Hz., they're da schizz. Now before either choice becomes viable, I have to sell one more pair of speakers (to get them out of the way), or I have to give my audio amiga, Annette, back her pair of Klipsch Heresys. And I got the distinct impression that she loaned them to me because they were underfoot in her home (she's not actively using the Heresys, but rather her big La Scalas). I honestly think that I could probably live happily with either the GoldenEars or the T2s, and either option gets me out of the need to have a subwoofer and crossover in the system - a good thing for sure. The thought also nags at me that, should I opt for the GoldenEars, their built-in sub may not do it's grunt so well out away from the wall where the speakers will image best. I found a place with the T2s where both imaging and bass were acceptable, but positioning that works for one set of speakers may not for another set. So ultimately I'm leaning toward the Emotivas (and being pushed in that direction by garbulky , who wants me to get the Yggy so he can play with it too). But I'm open to suggestions. Thanks - Boomzilla Definitely the Yggy and the T2's. I know folks say the speaker makes the biggest difference, but I say garbage in garbage out. The Yggy is an awesome source. One thing is certain, if the T2's don't sound good with the Yggdrasil you will know the speakers are the problem.
|
|
|
Post by brubacca on Mar 8, 2019 13:04:02 GMT -5
Big fan here of the source first philosophy with lesser speakers.
So I'll vote for T2 plus Yggy, but you weren't a big fan of little brother Gumby.
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Mar 8, 2019 13:31:33 GMT -5
...but you weren't a big fan of little brother Gumby. And that DOES worry me... But Schiit does offer a return window, so I'd be able to try it before deciding.
|
|
|
Post by fbczar on Mar 8, 2019 14:54:38 GMT -5
...but you weren't a big fan of little brother Gumby. And that DOES worry me... But Schiit does offer a return window, so I'd be able to try it before deciding. Gumby and Yggy are not very comparable in my opinion. My Theta Gen. Va is closer to the Yggy than is the Gumby. The Yggy is incredibly dynamic. Transients and bass attack like no other.
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Mar 13, 2019 2:59:09 GMT -5
My Thiels sold. My JBLs and Klipsches are on CraigsList. Annette's Heresys are headed back home in the next week or two.
My accountant just showed me my 2019 tax bill, and there went any options for GoldenEar speakers OR a Yggdrasil DAC...
So once the remaining speakers are gone, my most likely option is a pair of T2s. OTOH, if the Klipsch RP-600M speakers don't sell, I could use an Airmotiv 10 subwoofer with them and be happy...
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Mar 15, 2019 7:51:49 GMT -5
So last night, I tried using my Klipsch RP-600M bookshelf speakers (run full-range) with the new Klipsch 10" subwoofer set to come in at the roll-off frequency of the 600s. Results - Yes and no. While there WAS some serious bass added to the mix, and while the transition was mostly inaudible, it seemed that the side where the subwoofer was situated (in this case, the left) was higher in volume (even for the satellites) than the right. Now since the sub IS being rolled off at 45 Hz. and since the balance of the satellites is absolutely unchanged, this may be just an artifact of visual reinforcement rather than actual audible difference. I'll test the theory by moving the sub over to the right side.
If I'm still unsatisfied with the blend, then it's time to engage the upstream electronic crossover again and try things that way. If needed, I also have room to put the sub atop the equipment stand centered between the speakers. Now in theory, having vibrations affect the source components is a bad thing, but in practice, I've never noticed any difference (since my rig has no vinyl capabilities).
And having the sub in the mix at all is also reminding me of how little I like the complexity of having one at all - extra wires, extra box in the room - extra hassle with setup - blah! The Emotiva T2 speakers are starting to look better and better... Their -3dB point per specs is 35 Hz. and I'd bet that with a slight parametric EQ bump, I could get them to do an honest 30 Hz. in my room. Now that's not 20 Hz. - but it's still pretty darned low!
We'll see...
|
|
|
Post by pallpoul on Mar 15, 2019 9:08:54 GMT -5
So last night, I tried using my Klipsch RP-600M bookshelf speakers (run full-range) with the new Klipsch 10" subwoofer set to come in at the roll-off frequency of the 600s. Results - Yes and no. While there WAS some serious bass added to the mix, and while the transition was mostly inaudible, it seemed that the side where the subwoofer was situated (in this case, the left) was higher in volume (even for the satellites) than the right. Now since the sub IS being rolled off at 45 Hz. and since the balance of the satellites is absolutely unchanged, this may be just an artifact of visual reinforcement rather than actual audible difference. I'll test the theory by moving the sub over to the right side. If I'm still unsatisfied with the blend, then it's time to engage the upstream electronic crossover again and try things that way. If needed, I also have room to put the sub atop the equipment stand centered between the speakers. Now in theory, having vibrations affect the source components is a bad thing, but in practice, I've never noticed any difference (since my rig has no vinyl capabilities). And having the sub in the mix at all is also reminding me of how little I like the complexity of having one at all - extra wires, extra box in the room - extra hassle with setup - blah! The Emotiva T2 speakers are starting to look better and better... Their -3dB point per specs is 35 Hz. and I'd bet that with a slight parametric EQ bump, I could get them to do an honest 30 Hz. in my room. Now that's not 20 Hz. - but it's still pretty darned low! We'll see... If you like the Klipsch sound, boom, whey don't you set up a a pair o K-horns, or CW's and forget about the RP 600 bookshelf speakers and the sub ?
|
|
|
Post by pallpoul on Mar 15, 2019 9:22:12 GMT -5
I just purchased a pair of PA-1's based on ur review boom. I will let you know how they would play in my system.
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Mar 15, 2019 10:09:46 GMT -5
If you like the Klipsch sound, boom, whey don't you set up a a pair o K-horns, or CW's and forget about the RP 600 bookshelf speakers and the sub ? I do, generally, like "the Klipsch sound," but I find that ALL of their speakers (Heritage line included) need a subwoofer in my room. Now that said, I've not heard their Forte models - most reviews say those are suitable even without subs. But the local Best Buy (THE Klipsch dealer in my area) doesn't allow home trials, and I really want to hear any future speakers in my own home and with my own electronics before purchase. I've heard the Emotiva T2s in my living room, and I've regretted sending them back since I wrote their review. For whatever reason, those speakers "coupled" to my room better than any others I've tried. Have I heard speakers that sound better? Yes I have, but they're $8,000 to $10,000 per pair and the audible differences between them and the T2s were truly minor. I'm PICKY about speakers, and for what I want from a pair in my home seemed to be exactly what the T2s were delivering. So, to make a long story short, my decision is made. Once I make room by getting rid of one or two more pairs of speakers from my living room, the T2s will be purchased. I'd anticipate the T2s being suitable for smaller rooms in the future also. How? By putting them up on stands. I'm tall enough that I could lift the T2s up by a foot or so and still have their tweeters be "at ear level" for me. If not, I could just put another cushion on the listening chair. That foot of lift would do away with the floor coupling and reduce the bass sufficiently to work for the room size. Any boom still apparent? Parametric equalization via Roon would solve that issue. So no Klipsch in my future, thanks, but I think that I'll be fine without. Cheers - Boom
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Mar 15, 2019 10:10:11 GMT -5
I just purchased a pair of PA-1's based on ur review boom. I will let you know how they would play in my system. View AttachmentMost interested in your impressions!
|
|
|
Post by fbczar on Mar 15, 2019 10:47:49 GMT -5
So last night, I tried using my Klipsch RP-600M bookshelf speakers (run full-range) with the new Klipsch 10" subwoofer set to come in at the roll-off frequency of the 600s. Results - Yes and no. While there WAS some serious bass added to the mix, and while the transition was mostly inaudible, it seemed that the side where the subwoofer was situated (in this case, the left) was higher in volume (even for the satellites) than the right. Now since the sub IS being rolled off at 45 Hz. and since the balance of the satellites is absolutely unchanged, this may be just an artifact of visual reinforcement rather than actual audible difference. I'll test the theory by moving the sub over to the right side. If I'm still unsatisfied with the blend, then it's time to engage the upstream electronic crossover again and try things that way. If needed, I also have room to put the sub atop the equipment stand centered between the speakers. Now in theory, having vibrations affect the source components is a bad thing, but in practice, I've never noticed any difference (since my rig has no vinyl capabilities). And having the sub in the mix at all is also reminding me of how little I like the complexity of having one at all - extra wires, extra box in the room - extra hassle with setup - blah! The Emotiva T2 speakers are starting to look better and better... Their -3dB point per specs is 35 Hz. and I'd bet that with a slight parametric EQ bump, I could get them to do an honest 30 Hz. in my room. Now that's not 20 Hz. - but it's still pretty darned low! We'll see... Boom, For me one sub is always localizable for music regardless of crossover point. Sounds like you have the same problem. I have a pair of Kreisel DXD12012 sealed subs which are truly killer. They are designed to be stacked, one on top of the other. Nevertheless, after months of placement and crossover experiments I separated them and put them close to my main speakers. Viola everything is balanced and the bass is still ridiculous.
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Mar 15, 2019 16:01:46 GMT -5
Well, the JBLs sold today, so that leaves only the Klipsch monitors and the Heresys to get rid of.
|
|