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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 13, 2020 17:28:48 GMT -5
Did you ever run a REW sweep to establish a baseline prior to engaging these anti gravity boots you're searching for? I've decided not to for the time being. Why? To do so, I'd need to crawl behind the equipment rack again, unplug at least two items not being used from the USB jacks they're currently connected to (all four are currently in use), hook up the UMIK microphone to one, run the other to a DAC, install REW on the living room computer, run the old lady out of the house (she HATES frequency sweeps), create the graphs, email them to myself as attachments, upload them to PostImage.org, and then link to them from this board. In other words, a LOT of trouble for something I'm not convinced would really do much good. My ears aren't perfect, but they're a LOT less trouble.
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Post by foggy1956 on Jul 13, 2020 17:34:23 GMT -5
Did you ever run a REW sweep to establish a baseline prior to engaging these anti gravity boots you're searching for? I've decided not to for the time being. Why? To do so, I'd need to crawl behind the equipment rack again, unplug at least two items not being used from the USB jacks they're currently connected to (all four are currently in use), hook up the UMIK microphone to one, run the other to a DAC, install REW on the living room computer, run the old lady out of the house (she HATES frequency sweeps), create the graphs, email them to myself as attachments, upload them to PostImage.org, and then link to them from this board. In other words, a LOT of trouble for something I'm not convinced would really do much good. My ears aren't perfect, but they're a LOT less trouble. Yeah, would hate to prove our beliefs to be inaccurate 😎
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2020 17:41:17 GMT -5
Did you ever run a REW sweep to establish a baseline prior to engaging these anti gravity boots you're searching for? I've decided not to for the time being. Why? To do so, I'd need to crawl behind the equipment rack again, unplug at least two items not being used from the USB jacks they're currently connected to (all four are currently in use), hook up the UMIK microphone to one, run the other to a DAC, install REW on the living room computer, run the old lady out of the house (she HATES frequency sweeps), create the graphs, email them to myself as attachments, upload them to PostImage.org, and then link to them from this board. In other words, a LOT of trouble for something I'm not convinced would really do much good. My ears aren't perfect, but they're a LOT less trouble. Can you add more usbs by way of a hub?
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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 14, 2020 8:41:04 GMT -5
I've decided not to for the time being. Why? To do so, I'd need to crawl behind the equipment rack again, unplug at least two items not being used from the USB jacks they're currently connected to (all four are currently in use), hook up the UMIK microphone to one, run the other to a DAC, install REW on the living room computer, run the old lady out of the house (she HATES frequency sweeps), create the graphs, email them to myself as attachments, upload them to PostImage.org, and then link to them from this board. In other words, a LOT of trouble for something I'm not convinced would really do much good. My ears aren't perfect, but they're a LOT less trouble. Yeah, would hate to prove our beliefs to be inaccurate 😎 OK, foggy1956 - Please don't take this personally. But we disagree profoundly on measurements. The "cult of measurement" is dead wrong in its fundamental tenet - that measurements can adequately define the sound of ANY component. My example is that you're walking down a city street and hear music from two blocks over. Your mind INSTANTLY knows whether the music is live or recorded. It knows in spite of the traffic noise, the background echoes of the buildings, and the discussions of all the pedestrians around you. Tell me what measurement reveals THAT! Despite the failure of measurements to define what we hear, it is relatively easy for ANYONE (not just reviewers) to hear the difference between A and B. One might PREFER one or the other, but the differences would be described fairly consistently by anyone trying to do the comparison. And those differences can be described TOTALLY without measurements. Imagine that! So I contend (always have, always will) that measurements are generally useless. Now if I were a component designer, I might be able to use measurements to optimize the balance between multiple design goals, but even this would be a (mostly) inexact science, and driven by the designer's preferences. I'd also note that the majority of reviewers (online AND print) and, increasingly, a large number of manufacturers provide a minimum number of measurements. This trend is accelerating over the years. So apparently I'm not the only one who thinks that measurements often aren't worth taking at all. That said, I'm sure that I've not convinced you in the least. "Measurers" are devout in their religion, and I've learned that there's most often no value in trying to confuse them with facts - their minds are made up. So in summary: Measurements SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK! (or, phrased another way, I don't give a darn how it measures - but I DO care how it sounds).
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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 14, 2020 8:48:47 GMT -5
Can you add more usbs by way of a hub? I can, but would the hub interfere with the data flow? When I had a USB-2 cable a meter long between my external HDD and the computer, I got dropouts in the audio. When I used a 1-foot long USB-2 cable instead, I still got dropouts, but far fewer. When I switched to a 1-foot long USB-3 cable, I no longer get dropouts. If cabling is that important on the SATA HDD, do I really want a hub between the USB out and the DAC? Between the CD reader and the computer? Aren't those streams also critical?
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Post by foggy1956 on Jul 14, 2020 10:11:00 GMT -5
Yeah, would hate to prove our beliefs to be inaccurate 😎 OK, foggy1956 - Please don't take this personally. But we disagree profoundly on measurements. The "cult of measurement" is dead wrong in its fundamental tenet - that measurements can adequately define the sound of ANY component. My example is that you're walking down a city street and hear music from two blocks over. Your mind INSTANTLY knows whether the music is live or recorded. It knows in spite of the traffic noise, the background echoes of the buildings, and the discussions of all the pedestrians around you. Tell me what measurement reveals THAT! Despite the failure of measurements to define what we hear, it is relatively easy for ANYONE (not just reviewers) to hear the difference between A and B. One might PREFER one or the other, but the differences would be described fairly consistently by anyone trying to do the comparison. And those differences can be described TOTALLY without measurements. Imagine that! So I contend (always have, always will) that measurements are generally useless. Now if I were a component designer, I might be able to use measurements to optimize the balance between multiple design goals, but even this would be a (mostly) inexact science, and driven by the designer's preferences. I'd also note that the majority of reviewers (online AND print) and, increasingly, a large number of manufacturers provide a minimum number of measurements. This trend is accelerating over the years. So apparently I'm not the only one who thinks that measurements often aren't worth taking at all. That said, I'm sure that I've not convinced you in the least. "Measurers" are devout in their religion, and I've learned that there's most often no value in trying to confuse them with facts - their minds are made up. So in summary: Measurements SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK! (or, phrased another way, I don't give a darn how it measures - but I DO care how it sounds). It just scares me that anytime a fly farts in your house the dynamics change🙂
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Jul 14, 2020 10:55:52 GMT -5
So I contend (always have, always will) that measurements are generally useless. While I do agree that measurements do not tell us how something sounds (well, unless something measures REALLY out of whack...), there is some utility in measurements. It would be interesting to know if the various options you have been trying in your "bass quest" are actually lowering the frequency or perhaps changing the in-room frequency in some way that results in perception of lower bass (for example...maybe it's not decreasing frequency...maybe it's boosting frequencies that were already there). That kind of info could be helpful to others debating how to get better bass in their rooms. For me, there are only 3 things I've done with measuring that made a real difference in my perception of the sound. First was Dirac...it sets up my multichannel system very well with minimal fuss on my part. Second was using my SPL meter to help me position my sub. I did the "sub crawl" (but I didn't "crawl"). I just walked around with the meter as a test tone played, and I moved my sub a little here and a little there and I ended up with very even, non-boomy (no pun intended boomzilla) bass. And, I clearly found one spot that was really bad for the sub, so it doesn't sit there! And third - years ago I was hearing something I didn't quite like and wasn't quite sure whether it was inherent in my speakers or my room. With REW, I was able to quickly see some issues and test out some room acoustic changes. It was actually faster than experimenting with treatment types/positioning and listening. I put a treatment in place temporarily, ran REW, then moved it and re-tested. I found some good positions for it and my sound improved. (I no longer have the treatments since I got the Maggies.) Mark
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Post by foggy1956 on Jul 14, 2020 11:30:24 GMT -5
So I contend (always have, always will) that measurements are generally useless. While I do agree that measurements do not tell us how something sounds (well, unless something measures REALLY out of whack...), there is some utility in measurements. It would be interesting to know if the various options you have been trying in your "bass quest" are actually lowering the frequency or perhaps changing the in-room frequency in some way that results in perception of lower bass (for example...maybe it's not decreasing frequency...maybe it's boosting frequencies that were already there). That kind of info could be helpful to others debating how to get better bass in their rooms. For me, there are only 3 things I've done with measuring that made a real difference in my perception of the sound. First was Dirac...it sets up my multichannel system very well with minimal fuss on my part. Second was using my SPL meter to help me position my sub. I did the "sub crawl" (but I didn't "crawl"). I just walked around with the meter as a test tone played, and I moved my sub a little here and a little there and I ended up with very even, non-boomy (no pun intended boomzilla) bass. And, I clearly found one spot that was really bad for the sub, so it doesn't sit there! And third - years ago I was hearing something I didn't quite like and wasn't quite sure whether it was inherent in my speakers or my room. With REW, I was able to quickly see some issues and test out some room acoustic changes. It was actually faster than experimenting with treatment types/positioning and listening. I put a treatment in place temporarily, ran REW, then moved it and re-tested. I found some good positions for it and my sound improved. (I no longer have the treatments since I got the Maggies.) Mark Thank you
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2020 11:37:36 GMT -5
Can you add more usbs by way of a hub? I can, but would the hub interfere with the data flow? When I had a USB-2 cable a meter long between my external HDD and the computer, I got dropouts in the audio. When I used a 1-foot long USB-2 cable instead, I still got dropouts, but far fewer. When I switched to a 1-foot long USB-3 cable, I no longer get dropouts. If cabling is that important on the SATA HDD, do I really want a hub between the USB out and the DAC? Between the CD reader and the computer? Aren't those streams also critical? Correct me if wrong but there's a tremendous bandwidth difference between USB2 vs USB3. Given there's no bandwidth restrictions [cabling] I fail to see how using multiple USB devices [digital ] is going to be an issue. That is, each device has its own unique identifier and processing. I'd think like any network device as many devices may be assigned as long as the digital medium is sufficient as well as the processing which is responsible for directing/reading the media should simultaneous devices be communicating at the same time. That includes not only network devices but the ability of the HD to read write simultaneously multiple multiple multiple requests to that storage device should multiple other network devices be requesting/accessing simultaneously. The difference between USB2 vs USB3 is around 480 Mbps vs 4.8 Gbps.
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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 14, 2020 11:56:16 GMT -5
Hi @shimei -
You're right. But in theory, even USB-2 has PLENTY of headroom for music streaming.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2020 12:10:43 GMT -5
Hi @shimei - You're right. But in theory, even USB-2 has PLENTY of headroom for music streaming. Theory is often confused with a hypothesis but anyhoot the common narrative seemingly doesn't jive vs real world(ism) ~ true scientific method: observation, repeatability, and testability. I don't doubt your observable remedy for an issue which obviously proves that most theories need be adjusted or discarded. That is, given your setup I should be able to replicate it and repeat your remedy and results. Now, it's been a decade and half since I was running a gaming company providing servers to the public but the actual "media" or data being streamed from point A device to point B device is only a portion of the data which is happening through the cable [+ packet checking etc]. Not getting into all those areas I think buffering time etc may even be a "band aide" for slow network speeds. And even in cases of corruption, packet checking etc might correct whatever issues are rearing their ugly head but of course that increases the amount of data being sent over the cable and also increases timing... As long as all those zeros and ones can transfer through the cable in a timely manner I doubt there's a "quality" of zeros and ones. If there's degradation/corruption then the above previously mentioned band-aides might remedy as well. Question, for anyone, does using an USB2 vs USB3 cable/device utilize the exact same internal circuitry? I dunno what happens when a USB3 device communicates with another USB3 device but is joined by USB2 cabling? Enjoy, boom, as I always seemingly enjoy our conversations.
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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 14, 2020 12:35:06 GMT -5
Likewise, @shimei -
I've gone through this computer and turned off all background processes (checking for software updates, etc.) and found that the machine has an Intel i5 with 16 GB RAM. So it shouldn't be resource starved. When Roon runs, it has "exclusive" mode over all other machine processes. The four items plugged into the computer's four built-in USB-3 sockets are:
Logitech dongle for wireless trackball USB-2 CDRW (not normally turned on) USB-3 external SATA / USB-3 HDD USB-2 Black Ice DAC (run through the computer's hardware via Roon)
The machine has BlueTooth enabled (for the keyboard), onboard HDMI out (to the TV, used as a monitor), and Ethernet connected (for internet access). WiFi is not turned on. I, theoretically, COULD plug all of the USB-2 devices into a single powered external hub, but would that make any difference?
I'm at a loss as to why dropouts were occurring. I got the most dropouts when streaming over Ethernet. Still some when running a 1-meter USB-2 cable between the HDD and the computer. Only a very few when running a 1-foot USB-2 cable between the HDD and the computer. And when I switched to a 1-foot USB-3 cable, I get NO dropouts at all.
Any ideas?
Thanks - Glenn
PS: I seem to remember a conversation with one of my friends who is the IT manager for L.S.U. He said that there are a BUNCH of different SATA "flavors," all slightly different. Since my drive is a "bare" SATA drive from Western Digital, and its SATA to USB cradle is made by a different company (Sabrent), might it be possible that some "SATA-translation" is going on at the drive-cradle interface? If so, that might account for the dropouts... I can test this theory easily enough - I have another "Package" external USB drive from WD of the same capacity. By swapping drives, I should be able to confirm or rule out the theory that the drive and cradle are not completely happy with each other?
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Post by garbulky on Jul 14, 2020 12:44:12 GMT -5
Hi @shimei - You're right. But in theory, even USB-2 has PLENTY of headroom for music streaming. USB 2 has ooodles of headroom for music streaming. The problem isn't the USB protocol that's causing drop outs. Neither is it the legnth of cable. My old computer used to have all sorts of drop outs. Anytime I moved the mouse, I could hear it translate INTO THE SOUND! It had nothing to do with USB. It was to do with electrical interference in the computer - and my power supply/motherboard did a bad job regulating the power. Chances are it was that ground loop/hum issue you've been struggling with. It might not be in the XLR amps, but it's probably jumping around on your PC causing issues.
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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 14, 2020 12:50:32 GMT -5
I doubt it, garbulky - this dropout problem preceded the computer I'm currently running. In fact, it was present with a HP desktop, with a MacBook Pro laptop, and with the current Mac Mini. It's been present through at least two DACs. HOWEVER, the issue has been present via Ethernet streaming AND with the current drive in a cradle configuration. I don't remember having it when I was running a commercial external HDD (where the drive and electronics were manufactured by the same company).
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jul 14, 2020 13:21:16 GMT -5
Both USB2 and USB3 have plenty of BANDWIDTH for digital audio.
However you're ignoring this little issue called latency. Computers in general are NOT what we would technically call real-time devices. In many cases they actually only perform one task at once. However, because they switch back and forth really quickly, they appear to be doing multiple tasks at once.
When we discuss things like bandwidth we are talking about average performance numbers.
So, yes, a USB3 port can usually deliver data at a rate of up to 4.8 gbps... But that doesn't mean that it doesn't occasionally hesitate from time to time while the computer is busy doing something else... And, if you're reading data from a hard drive, and sending it out the USB port, it's probably alternating back and forth...
Networks and routers are the same way - because, when you're talking about digital data, all that really counts is the average throughput.
If I drive to make a delivery 600 miles away... And it takes me ten hours to get there... That DOESN'T mean I drove steadily at 60 mpH... I probably went 80 mpH at times...
And stopped for the occasional snack or fill-up... (But all that concerns my dispatcher is that I averaged 60 mpH.)
However, when you're talking about AUDIO data, things are a bit different... because audio IS pretty much a real-time application.
Even a slight hesitation at the wrong time, when you're really looking for another packet, can cause a problem. And, yes, most audio applications do their best to minimize these sorts of issues, by doing things like buffering data ahead...
(Remember that movie Speed.... where the bus was going to blow up if its speed ever dropped below 50 mpH.)
It helps if you think of network and USB traffic like automobile traffic in that movie... Every router... and every switch... and every USB hub... is one more intersection where something could cause a delay... And your computer, with all those drivers and programs running, is a lot like the traffic pattern around the terminal at JFK airport...
So, for example, what if your virus scanner decides that it just has to scan that file, at just the instant you really need to send that USB3 packet? Well, let's just say that the file may just not make it out in time, which could cause problems down the line...
We try and avoid situations like this by getting a really fast computer - that's so fast that we won't notice a short hesitation now and then... And a really fast network so that, even if it gets a bit congested, the delays there aren't noticeable either...
And, hopefully, we include some buffering in various programs, so they can tolerate an occasional missed beat... But we still may have to do some work to make sure that nothing causes a critical delay in just the wrong spot...
Here's a cool little utility that shows latency - specifically on your computer:
I should also note that, with most computers, your USB packets are probably already going through several hubs... You have the root hub on the motherboard... And possibly another hub that feed the front or rear panel USB ports... So you're talking about adding a third external hub to the collection... And, of course, not all USB hubs perform equally well...
(So, yes, less is almost always better...)
Incidentally, as a broad generalization, even small low-cost wired Ethernet switches tend to be very fast...
However, when it comes to routers, small low-cost models tend to be rather limited, and so tend to bog down quite easily... So it really pays to know exactly what your various devices are, how they're configured, and the patterns by which traffic flows through them...
Likewise, anti-virus and firewall software is almost always a major bottleneck on computers...
I can, but would the hub interfere with the data flow? When I had a USB-2 cable a meter long between my external HDD and the computer, I got dropouts in the audio. When I used a 1-foot long USB-2 cable instead, I still got dropouts, but far fewer. When I switched to a 1-foot long USB-3 cable, I no longer get dropouts. If cabling is that important on the SATA HDD, do I really want a hub between the USB out and the DAC? Between the CD reader and the computer? Aren't those streams also critical? Correct me if wrong but there's a tremendous bandwidth difference between USB2 vs USB3. Given there's no bandwidth restrictions [cabling] I fail to see how using multiple USB devices [digital ] is going to be an issue. That is, each device has its own unique identifier and processing. I'd think like any network device as many devices may be assigned as long as the digital medium is sufficient as well as the processing which is responsible for directing/reading the media should simultaneous devices be communicating at the same time. That includes not only network devices but the ability of the HD to read write simultaneously multiple multiple multiple requests to that storage device should multiple other network devices be requesting/accessing simultaneously. The difference between USB2 vs USB3 is around 480 Mbps vs 4.8 Gbps.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2020 14:39:59 GMT -5
Both USB2 and USB3 have plenty of BANDWIDTH for digital audio.
However you're ignoring this little issue called latency. Computers in general are NOT what we would technically call real-time devices. In many cases they actually only perform one task at once. However, because they switch back and forth really quickly, they appear to be doing multiple tasks at once.
When we discuss things like bandwidth we are talking about average performance numbers.
So, yes, a USB3 port can usually deliver data at a rate of up to 4.8 gbps... But that doesn't mean that it doesn't occasionally hesitate from time to time while the computer is busy doing something else... And, if you're reading data from a hard drive, and sending it out the USB port, it's probably alternating back and forth...
Networks and routers are the same way - because, when you're talking about digital data, all that really counts is the average throughput.
If I drive to make a delivery 600 miles away... And it takes me ten hours to get there... That DOESN'T mean I drove steadily at 60 mpH... I probably went 80 mpH at times...
And stopped for the occasional snack or fill-up... (But all that concerns my dispatcher is that I averaged 60 mpH.)
However, when you're talking about AUDIO data, things are a bit different... because audio IS pretty much a real-time application.
Even a slight hesitation at the wrong time, when you're really looking for another packet, can cause a problem. And, yes, most audio applications do their best to minimize these sorts of issues, by doing things like buffering data ahead...
(Remember that movie Speed.... where the bus was going to blow up if its speed ever dropped below 50 mpH.)
It helps if you think of network and USB traffic like automobile traffic in that movie... Every router... and every switch... and every USB hub... is one more intersection where something could cause a delay... And your computer, with all those drivers and programs running, is a lot like the traffic pattern around the terminal at JFK airport...
So, for example, what if your virus scanner decides that it just has to scan that file, at just the instant you really need to send that USB3 packet? Well, let's just say that the file may just not make it out in time, which could cause problems down the line...
We try and avoid situations like this by getting a really fast computer - that's so fast that we won't notice a short hesitation now and then... And a really fast network so that, even if it gets a bit congested, the delays there aren't noticeable either...
And, hopefully, we include some buffering in various programs, so they can tolerate an occasional missed beat... But we still may have to do some work to make sure that nothing causes a critical delay in just the wrong spot...
Here's a cool little utility that shows latency - specifically on your computer:
I should also note that, with most computers, your USB packets are probably already going through several hubs... You have the root hub on the motherboard... And possibly another hub that feed the front or rear panel USB ports... So you're talking about adding a third external hub to the collection... And, of course, not all USB hubs perform equally well...
(So, yes, less is almost always better...)
Incidentally, as a broad generalization, even small low-cost wired Ethernet switches tend to be very fast...
However, when it comes to routers, small low-cost models tend to be rather limited, and so tend to bog down quite easily... So it really pays to know exactly what your various devices are, how they're configured, and the patterns by which traffic flows through them...
Likewise, anti-virus and firewall software is almost always a major bottleneck on computers...
Correct me if wrong but there's a tremendous bandwidth difference between USB2 vs USB3. Given there's no bandwidth restrictions [cabling] I fail to see how using multiple USB devices [digital ] is going to be an issue. That is, each device has its own unique identifier and processing. I'd think like any network device as many devices may be assigned as long as the digital medium is sufficient as well as the processing which is responsible for directing/reading the media should simultaneous devices be communicating at the same time. That includes not only network devices but the ability of the HD to read write simultaneously multiple multiple multiple requests to that storage device should multiple other network devices be requesting/accessing simultaneously. The difference between USB2 vs USB3 is around 480 Mbps vs 4.8 Gbps. I agree with your post in entirety. But to save face I addressed what you shared in so many words in my following post. All this reminds me of optimizing a gaming computer for tournament play where there was prize money. Turning off unnecessary services in the OS and in the computer's bios optimizing I/O settings so that "interference" and/or latency wouldn't increase depending on bus traffic etc. I can "perceive" how performing the above optimizations could decrease undesirable effects from multiple devices communicating with each on a motherboard and within the OS environment. I mean, whether networking or communicating between devices onboard motherboard wise it's all about establishing clear communication with each component and then to the final output where us audio enthusiasts spend endless amounts of money and time trying to optimize final equipment to our ears. Enjoy
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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 14, 2020 15:14:57 GMT -5
Let me ask another stupid question, if I may, @shimei -
My particular Mac Mini has five audio output options:
Internal speakers Analog headphone jack Optical TOSLINK USB HDMI
Three of the five obviously won't work for me (internal speakers, analog headphone jack, and HDMI). This leaves me with USB audio output or optical TOSLINK. Should I select the latter, there would (obviously) be less traffic over the USB bus, but I understand that TOSLINK has significantly more jitter than USB. Your thoughts?
Actually, there IS one other feasible option - I have a HDMI to coaxial SP/DIF converter. Any thoughts on how that might sound?
Thanks!
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Post by megash0n on Jul 14, 2020 16:00:13 GMT -5
Let me ask another stupid question, if I may, @shimei - My particular Mac Mini has five audio output options: Internal speakers Analog headphone jack Optical TOSLINK USB HDMI Three of the five obviously won't work for me (internal speakers, analog headphone jack, and HDMI). This leaves me with USB audio output or optical TOSLINK. Should I select the latter, there would (obviously) be less traffic over the USB bus, but I understand that TOSLINK has significantly more jitter than USB. Your thoughts? Actually, there IS one other feasible option - I have a HDMI to coaxial SP/DIF converter. Any thoughts on how that might sound? Thanks! I'm not as familiar with MACs, but are there BIOS settings underneath like in a PC? If so, run through your settings to see if you have any Virtualization options and disable them. I have recently found that my older X58 motherboard's virtualization tech is incompatible with Windows 10. I was getting some stalls and such on my PC. I disabled this stuff and everything is much smoother now. It's worth looking at or Googling. Secondly, in my opinion there is just something wrong here. It doesn't take a tremendous amount of hardware or bandwidth to stream music.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2020 16:00:34 GMT -5
Let me ask another stupid question, if I may, @shimei - My particular Mac Mini has five audio output options: Internal speakers Analog headphone jack Optical TOSLINK USB HDMI Three of the five obviously won't work for me (internal speakers, analog headphone jack, and HDMI). This leaves me with USB audio output or optical TOSLINK. Should I select the latter, there would (obviously) be less traffic over the USB bus, but I understand that TOSLINK has significantly more jitter than USB. Your thoughts? Actually, there IS one other feasible option - I have a HDMI to coaxial SP/DIF converter. Any thoughts on how that might sound? Thanks! I have none as I haven't experience in this particular setup. I haven't a clue on what is available to you with MAC computers. In PCs it was/is a common practice to move various PCI devices to varying motherboard slots or even reassign addresses etc and go so far as to disable unused component/circuitry on the motherboard itself. Again, my experience was from a decade and half ago. In the same way I can perceive how installing/moving an internal SSD drive [if not using onboard sata controller] to a different PCI slot might free up bandwidth/cut down on interference if the slot used was on the same channel of another device. Or, how adding a pci device to a certain slot might interfere with an onboard sata or onboard audio controller. Of course there's always the option to disable given that's available to you the onboard circuitry and externalize various controllers audio/video/storage etc. I'm unfamiliar with MACs but to give an example of gaming tweaks which result in better visual graphics [frame rates] which might also help in audio. I'd search for the most basic tweaks pertaining to MAC devices that other users have shared for audio setups. I have with personal computers experienced what you're conveying until rearranging/moving components on motherboards. Just optimizing the setup for my dedicated purposes rather than just using a computer for a more universal audience. For example, I experienced in the past on an occasion crackling etc when using another input device just as Garbunky conveyed when moving a mouse. The whole point of the below tweaks is to cut unnecessary chatter/communication while freeing up processing and memory for your desired task by eliminating unnecessary background services. For gaming: tweaklibrary.com/how-to-optimize-windows-10-for-gaming/For audio: support.focusrite.com/hc/en-gb/articles/207355205-Optimising-your-PC-for-Audio-on-Windows-10With Windows one can given they are confident enough and experienced enough perform many tweaks through registry etc. Sorry I can't be help with Mac!
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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 14, 2020 16:19:14 GMT -5
I'm not as familiar with MACs, but are there BIOS settings underneath like in a PC? If so, run through your settings to see if you have any Virtualization options and disable them. I have recently found that my older X58 motherboard's virtualization tech is incompatible with Windows 10. I was getting some stalls and such on my PC. I disabled this stuff and everything is much smoother now. It's worth looking at or Googling. Secondly, in my opinion there is just something wrong here. It doesn't take a tremendous amount of hardware or bandwidth to stream music. Macs are PROFOUNDLY not like PCs. The BIOS settings are not user definable, although one can "hack the bios" via the "Terminal" app. But if you get a typo, that app can have a different meaning! The good news is that Apple (providing BOTH the hardware AND the operating system) already KNOWS whether your hardware can handle their newest operating system upgrade. If your hardware isn't up to minimum requirements, the new OS simply won't install. That said, one CAN tinker with the operating system to a lesser degree through Apple's graphical interface. I've Googled several different "Speed up your Mac" pages and verified that my system is "running lean." That said, I agree that SOMETHING is wrong - it should NOT take more hardware OR bandwidth to stream music without dropouts. That's what is making me suspect (more and more) that the problem is NOT with the computer at all, but with the SATA hard drive and cradle. I've rooted around in my spare parts closed this afternoon and unearthed two other SATA drive cradles. I'll try the both of them with the drive (reverting deliberately back to USB-2) and see if there's still dropouts. If not, then I'm concluding that the problem was drive-cradle incompatibility. If the dropouts remain even in a different cradle, then I'm swapping in a "packaged" external USB drive (I think I have both a Seagate and a Western Digital laying around). For the future, there IS room in this Mac Mini for a second internal HDD. Were I to install a large, internal SSD, I'd completely do away with the whole USB issue... The Samsung SSD 860 EVO 4TB 2.5 Inch SATA III Internal SSD goes for less than $700.
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