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Post by brubacca on Dec 17, 2020 14:27:49 GMT -5
Boomzilla,
How about a curveball for those speakers (or three).
How about a Schiit Saga+ (or Freya+) with a Aegir amp? 20 Class A (Like) watts...
Or how about building a Nelson Pass Amp Camp Amp? 8W Stereo Class A.
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 19, 2020 5:27:28 GMT -5
Before New Years, the Audio-gd HE-1 Vacuum XLR preamplifier should return from the friend I loaned it to. At about the same time, the Black Ice Audio "Fusion F22" integrated amplifier (that uses EL-34 output tubes) should arrive from the manufacturer for review. And tomorrow, (Sunday 12/20/20) the Heathkit mono block tube amps should return from the friend I loaned them to. The friend who heard them likened them to his Quicksilver mono block amps (that he claims are the best he's ever heard). So by tomorrow evening, I'll have the Heathkit / Tekton combo in action (the best I'd heard when I had my Pendragons). Will the Heathkits light up the Double Impact speakers like they did the Pendragons? I'll know by Monday (and consider that knowledge all the Christmas gift I need)! As to brubacca's suggestion, the Pass kit has a lot to recommend it... I've owned the Schiit preamps and they didn't light my fire, but I've never heard the Schiit power amplifiers. The Double Impact speakers, OTOH, continue to sound better as they break in. They aren't small - they aren't pretty - no matter what color you order, the WAF is poor (the Tekton grills do not help the sound) - they're too heavy to move around much - the midrange drivers solve the crossover directivity issue that the Pendragons had - and they're picky, picky, picky about amplification - but at their best, WOW. The Double Impacts pull at my planning. Were I going to stay in this house beyond 2023, I'd definitely make some modifications including: Carpet the living room floor - Put acoustic tile on the ceiling - Move the speakers so that they fire down the length of the room rather than the width - add a few bass traps - add some more absorbers... But those improvements won't move with us, and are not attractive in any way to potential house buyers. They are also not cheap, and any money I spend on this house at this point is money thrown away. And finally, we're moving from a low-living-cost State (LA) to a very high cost State (MA / RI / VT) for retirement, so every $$$ is important. Further, it's likely that we'll rent in the new areas for a year or two to see if we can adjust to the climate before we buy and rentals there are absurdly expensive. All in all, we aren't rich to start with, and unless we're careful, we'll end up poor. The first employer I worked for (24.5 years) laid us all off so as to avoid paying retirement or medical insurance and then filed for bankruptcy to make sure that none of the employees could recover any money from lawsuits. Since then, I've been self-employed for 20 years, and although I've used the SEP-IRA for retirement, I've been buying Blue Cross Medical on a year-by-year basis (ever more expensive each year), and probably can't afford to keep it forever. So, like many Americans, we're likely to live a very frugal retirement if we're lucky enough to live that long. We're essentially a major illness away from disaster. Such is life. So forgive my whining & Merry Christmas to you all. Boomzilla |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Dec 19, 2020 8:09:33 GMT -5
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 19, 2020 9:27:28 GMT -5
They're near our daughter/SIL/only grandson. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 20, 2020 19:59:13 GMT -5
The Heathkit mono block amplifiers made it home today. They're one of the best matches I've heard for the Tekton Double Impact speakers so far, but... They have a residual hum. Both units. The hum wasn't audible with the lower sensitivity Emotiva T2s, but it is bothersome with the DIs. And so, despite the lovely music that the Heathkits make with the DIs they're not the amps that I can live with. I'll try reversing the AC plug polarities tomorrow, but in my experience, the "wrong" polarity produces a LOUD hum. The way they're now plugged is almost certainly the right way. So where to now, St. Peter? I'm thinking that the Black Ice Audio tube amps may ultimately be the ticket. They have a bottom end that compliments the DIs. Their Fosgate balanced circuit design makes them dead quiet. And they're half the price of their nearest competitor (The McIntosh hybrid integrated amps). The Black Ice "middle of the line" amp should be here just after Christmas. It uses EL-34 output tubes (one of my favorites), and puts out almost 40 WPC - enough to drive even less than highly-sensitive speakers. Time will tell... |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Dec 20, 2020 20:11:36 GMT -5
I've had my Prima Luna unplugged since I prepped for the XMC-2 arrival. I do love my Hypex, but I am looking forward to getting back to my tubes.
Mark
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 21, 2020 12:05:58 GMT -5
Hi klinemj - What were the stock output tubes on your Prima Luna, and have you tried any tube-rolling? My audio amigo has a BUNCH of EL34, KT77, and 6CA7 tubes in his closet and offers to let me sample any I'd like to try. I still have at least 25 or so 12AX7 tubes of various brands in my own closet. I particularly like the sound of the Baldwin Organ brand. Merry Christmas to you & yours! Glenn |
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 21, 2020 13:46:39 GMT -5
Black Ice Audio Fusion F22 amp ships today, and may (or may not) get here before New Year. I'm VERY much looking forward to hearing this one! I tried reversing the plugs for the Heathkit amplifiers, and they now hum worse. They sound lovely, but just are too noisy for high-sensitivity speakers. When I have time, I might enlist audiobill to look at the layout and suggest ways to minimize hum. Some internal shielding around the AC wiring and possibly switching the bias on the input tubes from AC to DC might make some difference... |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Dec 21, 2020 14:30:30 GMT -5
Hi klinemj - What were the stock output tubes on your Prima Luna, and have you tried any tube-rolling? My audio amigo has a BUNCH of EL34, KT77, and 6CA7 tubes in his closet and offers to let me sample any I'd like to try. I still have at least 25 or so 12AX7 tubes of various brands in my own closet. I particularly like the sound of the Baldwin Organ brand. Merry Christmas to you & yours! Glenn I'm not sure what came stock with the Prima Luna - I bought it as a demo from a dealer. But, when I bought it, it had EL34's in it (with 12au7 driver tubes). They also let me borrow some KT88's they had, but they were a bit old/well used and they wanted more for them than they were worth - so I bought some new KT88's and that's what's in it now. I do like the KT88's better than the EL34's. I'll be busy the next month with holiday travel and my litigation work, but after that - I'll check in to see what options you or amigo might have from me to try. Mark (and Merry Christmas to you also!) |
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Post by brubacca on Dec 21, 2020 14:59:42 GMT -5
Prima Luna will supply the amp from the factory with at least el34 or kt88.
Had a dealer tell me that local importer (Upscale Audio) prefers EL34 and pushes product with EL34.
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Dec 21, 2020 15:28:39 GMT -5
Prima Luna will supply the amp from the factory with at least el34 or kt88. Had a dealer tell me that local importer (Upscale Audio) prefers EL34 and pushes product with EL34. I found the EL34's and KT88's distinctly different, but both good. For me - the KT88's had just a bit more punch, esp. at the lower end while the EL34's sounded a bit more "delicate". Had I not heard the KT88's, I would have found the amp a delight still with the EL34's. Mark |
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 21, 2020 15:39:42 GMT -5
In my experience, it's true that some tubes DO excel - but in only a limited part of the frequency range. Some may have more kick in the bass, others more extension in the treble. But for an all-around output tube that is excellent from the top to the bottom, I still prefer the EL34. That said, the circuit itself can make or break the output tube, and I've heard some amps that, having been designed for a specific output tube, sound their best with only their intended tube. Was there a switch for the KT88s in the Prima Luna, or did you have to rebias all the tubes manually?
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Dec 21, 2020 16:04:27 GMT -5
In my experience, it's true that some tubes DO excel - but in only a limited part of the frequency range. Some may have more kick in the bass, others more extension in the treble. But for an all-around output tube that is excellent from the top to the bottom, I still prefer the EL34. That said, the circuit itself can make or break the output tube, and I've heard some amps that, having been designed for a specific output tube, sound their best with only their intended tube. Was there a switch for the KT88s in the Prima Luna, or did you have to rebias all the tubes manually? The Prima Luna I have has an auto-bias circuit, so all I have to do if flip the switch. There are options for EL34 and KT88/KT120/KT150 but the KT120/150 are to big to fit under the "cage" so you have to leave it off. Mark |
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 21, 2020 17:01:31 GMT -5
Reminds me of a girlfriend I once had...  |
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Post by brubacca on Dec 21, 2020 18:33:37 GMT -5
Prima Luna will supply the amp from the factory with at least el34 or kt88. Had a dealer tell me that local importer (Upscale Audio) prefers EL34 and pushes product with EL34. I found the EL34's and KT88's distinctly different, but both good. For me - the KT88's had just a bit more punch, esp. at the lower end while the EL34's sounded a bit more "delicate". Had I not heard the KT88's, I would have found the amp a delight still with the EL34's. Mark When I auditioned tube amps a couple years ago I listed to a Prima Luna Prologue Premium with the el34. It was really great with a lot of the music I like. It had no guts for rock or grunge. It was glorious for jazz and other genres. I should have pushed to hear it with KT88s. I bought a Rogue Cronus Magnum with KT120. It certainly has the balls when called for, but it is not a glorious in the mids for jazz. I can run el34 in the rogue it just takes a major bias pot adjustment (10 turns in a direction (clockwise I think)) The Prima Luna was well suited for switching tubes with the auto-bias circuit. |
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Post by audiobill on Dec 21, 2020 20:41:53 GMT -5
Boom, don't overlook a VTA ST70.
Quality parts, EL34, great sonics from great transformers.
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 22, 2020 3:01:30 GMT -5
I'd concur that the VTA-70 has all the virtues you mention. But I'd argue that the Black Ice amps may be quieter (noise & hum >95dB below signal) than the VTA ST70 (noise & hum >90 below signal). Are those extra 5dB audible? In theory, no. In practice...
I also find that Jim Fosgate’s "Odyssey dual-phase V-drive circuit, a fully-balanced differential push-pull design (at least to my ears) has deeper and tighter bass. This is not a trivial difference.
The Black Ice bandwidth is specified as 15-80kHz. +3, -0. The VTA ST70 claims 20-20kHz +1, -1. This would imply that the VTA is flatter, and it may be, but the Black Ice is wider bandwidth.
But the bass boost of the Black Ice is noticeable. Of course, one could achieve (theoretically) the same effect by using an inexpensive Schiit Loki equalizer and a +4dB bass boost with the ST70. If you preferred less bass on the Black Ice, then you could use the same Loki at -3dB. The VTA is more accurate, and the Black Ice is more euphonic in my room with my speakers.
The greater treble bandwidth of the Black Ice is also noticeable. The VTA ST70 sounded slightly more closed in on top. Again, the Loki could probably make the amps sound more alike if you wanted to boost the 15kHz. band on the ST70. But without equalization, I prefer the treble of the Black Ice.
Not to disparage the ST70 (which IS a good amp), but my preference (to my ears, in my room, and with my equipment) is for the Black Ice product. That said, the differences ARE small, and although the average listener probably WILL hear differences between the two amps, which amp any given individual might choose is a toss up.
Black Ice Audio "Fusion F22 integrated amplifier" = $1,699 & free shipping - choice of black or silver
Vacuum Tube Audio ST70 power amplifier = $1,295 + shipping (or as low as $899 + shipping as a kit but with all tubes) NOTE: Currently out of stock until 1/4/21
Note that the VTA product is less expensive, but that the Black Ice, being an integrated, includes not only input switching but also a preamplifier with remote control that the VTA lacks.
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 24, 2020 20:42:20 GMT -5
As of Christmas Eve, both the AURALiC Aries Mini and the Black Ice F22 tube amp are running.
The Aries Mini posed a challenge; the unit came with only a British 220V, 50Hz. power supply wall-wart. The Aries wants 16VDC at about 1 Ampere of current. I had a 16VDC-2Amp wall wart in the junk box, but its center plug was too narrow to fit in the Aries power socket. By amazing fortune, I had a plug of the right size in my junk box with solder-on construction. A bit of melted solder later, and I have a working Aries Mini power supply!
The Black Ice F22 amp had tubes with bias all over the place. One was 60mw of bias (40 is considered "normal"). So I immediately rebiased all the tubes until they met spec.
But all's well that ends well!
SOUNDING GOOD!
Boom
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Post by dsonyay on Dec 25, 2020 10:12:45 GMT -5
The STRANGEST thing! I converted an album of AIFF files this morning to WAV using "MediaHuman" converter for PC. When I played the AIFF files, one track was almost unlistenable. There was a baritone who sang loudly and the breakup on his voice was irritating and painfully obvious. When I played the WAV file, ripped from the AIFF, however, the breakup and distortion was gone! WTF??? Either the distortion was inherent in the data, or it wasn't. If it WAS, then the converter threw away data during the conversion. If it WASN'T, however, then the AIFF format itself was CAUSING the distortion! The track had sounded distorted when played via iTunes (Mac) and when played via JRiver Media Center (Mac AND PC versions). The distortion was NOT an artifact of overloading the speakers or the amp. It was consistent through multiple amps, speakers, computers, DACs, and hard drives. So WHERE DID THE DISTORTION COME FROM AND WHERE DID IT GO?? If AIFF was causing the distortion, then I have a complete two terabyte drive full of distorted music that I can clean up by converting to WAV format? This defies EVERYTHING that I've ever read about audio formats. Why should the format matter on playback? I've got to assume that the data itself was NOT distorted, because now the voice is NOT sounding distorted. The current WAV file is playing through JRiver for PC. Ladies, enlighten me here. I'm at a loss to explain this (MAJOR) change in sound. In fact, I'm going to fish the AIFF file back out of the trash & restore it to the source directory for direct A:B comparisons. But this is NOT a minor, slight, or "I might be mistaken" change. It's a night and day difference in the clarity of the sound. Boom-fuddled How about taking that same wav file and reconverting it back to aiff? Does the distortion still happen? |
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 25, 2020 10:28:50 GMT -5
How about taking that same wav file and reconverting it back to aiff? Does the distortion still happen? Could do - but not that curious. Feel free to try it & let me know? |
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