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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 10, 2014 20:07:19 GMT -5
Nope, I'm not using the USB input.
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Post by melm on Feb 10, 2014 20:09:06 GMT -5
Yes, I really don't think you are going to get bass management from the Oppo. And as Garbulky notes, the bass from the XV15 is prodigious.
If I play a 5.0 SACD disc, I don't get any .1 to the sub. The UMC-200 gives it back to me using Dolby PLII. I really thing that's what's happening here.
A call or email to Oppo or PSA will settle it. Oppo responds to mail almost 24x7. I friend was in an email conversation with their support people just this weekend. PSA is also very available.
Mel
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Post by garbulky on Feb 10, 2014 20:09:48 GMT -5
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 10, 2014 20:12:08 GMT -5
Well FART!!! One of the reasons I sold my USP-1 was because I thought the Oppo would do stereo bass management. Apparently what I read wasn't right.
Now I'm back to square one. If the Oppo won't do bass management, then I need a preamp that will.
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Post by brubacca on Feb 10, 2014 20:18:06 GMT -5
Time for another XSP-1?
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Post by melm on Feb 10, 2014 20:19:31 GMT -5
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Post by garbulky on Feb 10, 2014 20:21:00 GMT -5
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hemster
Global Moderator 
Particle Manufacturer
...still listening... still watching
Posts: 51,950
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Post by hemster on Feb 10, 2014 20:51:38 GMT -5
Yes...? You called, Sir Garbulky? |
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klinemj
Emo VIPs 
Official Emofest Scribe
Posts: 15,083
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Post by klinemj on Feb 10, 2014 21:29:47 GMT -5
Remember...I told you to avoid the big brand name PC's that add their bloatware. Windows is great...it is the PC Mfgrs who add crap. That is why I build my own or buy Powerspecs from Micro center.
Also...watch out converting to WAV...as many have said, you lose a lot of metadata. If you don't mind not having track numbers and all that comes with that...go right ahead. Just be warned!
Mark
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 10, 2014 22:06:18 GMT -5
I get the following significant info from the Oppo owners threads:
1. The Sub will need +15dB boost external to the player (e.g., raise the Sub's volume knob) to match the RCA output levels, 21dB boost to match the XLRs.
and
2. The Oppo 105 multi-channel outputs do bass management on any speaker you set to small in the Oppo configuration...from 2.0 up to 7.1. The Oppo Stereo Outputs...only send full-range stereo.
If I understand the above correctly, then my problem is that I'm using the (XLR) "stereo outputs," which are full-range only. By switching to the multi-channel RCA jacks, I should get bass management just fine.
Even so, regardless of whether the mains run "large" or "small," the SW output (which I AM using to feed the sub) should be live with bass, and I'm getting little (even with the +10 sub trim & the sub gain knob at 100%). What's with that?
Yet another option would be to put my Crown XLS2000 amp back on the main speakers and use its internal crossover to attenuate high-pass at 80 Hz. The sub's own crossover could then be used to create a low-pass at the same 80 Hz. Once level adjusted, this would work with no further trim. This option would have the further advantage of the Crown amp having SIGNIFICANTLY less gain than the Emotiva XPR. Therefore, the sub signals would be stronger relative to the mains.
To keep the XPR-2 in the system, the "Garbulky" option will be to use some in-line 12-dB attenuators (already ordered) between the multi-channel R/L front RCA outputs of the Oppo and the XPR-2. That way, the sub/main levels will be almost balanced without requiring excessive trim in the Oppo. If I can do this without inducing hum, then it may be the best choice. I call it the "Garbulky" option because this is what he did before getting his passive preamp (to match the high gain of his Emotiva power amp). Or when the Control Freak is available, I could just use one of those.
With the Klipsch Heresys in the system, rolling off the mains is optional. The air-suspension design of the Heresys allows a smooth roll-off acoustically below the speakers' 55 Hz normal low limit. Using ported or passive-radiator speakers, though, I'll prevent lots of unwanted woofer-cone excursion by using the active crossover of the Oppo or preamp to attenuate lower frequencies.
I also have to wonder whether having TWO subs in the system would double the amplitude of the bass, reducing the imbalance between the mains and sub levels. A second one would allow me to use the subs as speaker stands (ala Chuck Elliott) thus providing two improvements for the price of an additional sub.
INITIAL COMMENTS ON POWERSOUND AUDIO HV15 SUBWOOFER:
The box weighed 88 pounds. The packing was good. I got it in & waltzed it into place without issue. The controls are clearly labeled. The "crinkle black" finish looks like engine paint, but it is better than flat (or satin) black. The wife didn't raise any eyebrows (thank you, dear!). The box fits along the wall with the two equipment racks without looking out of place. The "auto-on" seems to work once I get some signal to the sub.
That's it so far - Until I get the Oppo sorted out & the subwoofer playing, I can't say a word about its performance.
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,256
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Post by KeithL on Feb 11, 2014 11:14:27 GMT -5
If it's taking that long to download a driver, I suspect either you have a rotten Internet connection, or Toshiba has a slow website. I would have to say, though, that I prefer Windows's "you need a driver - have fun finding and installing it" to Apple's "sorry, that's not an Apple product, $#@& off". I know a guy who bought a nice shiny new Apple monitor; and he figured he'd use it with his old Mac mini while he waited for his new Mac mini to arrive. Guess what? You can't use a nice new Apple monitor with last years Mac mini... and you can't even buy an adapter. Apparently I can buy an HDMI adapter for my VGA PC, but Apple won't sell you a Thunderbolt adapter for a two year old Mac mini.... I guess you're just supposed to throw it away. Now, I don't consider this to be any more unreasonable than the crap that happens with PCs; my point is that it happens with Apples too. Likewise, I've seen a few cases where the current version of a program wouldn't install on a two year old Mac... because the O/S wasn't new enough... but the O/S couldn't be updated... because there wasn't enough memory... My point being that the days when Apple proudly proclaimed "any Apple program would run on any Mac" are pretty long gone. I agree entirely that "Windows seems easy if you're a Windows whiz", but anything seems "simple and intuitive" if you've been using it for years... Yeah, I'm "a Windows whiz" because I've been using it, like, forever. And, as far as I can tell, people who've been using Apples for years feel about the same way. However, when I look at a Mac, it isn't at all intuitive either. (What dim-bulb decided to put the sample rate settings for PCM audio in the Midi panel? If you know what Midi is, it has very little to do with PCM audio...  ) I've known more than a few people who haven't been using ANY computer very much - and, to them, a Mac seems just as complicated as Windows. I agree that Windows 8 sucks; and Windows 8.1 sucks almost as badly (and most other PC users agree). Luckily you can still get a machine with Windows 7 on it if you look. I applaud Apple for putting support for UAC2 in their O/S (Windows does not), but how can they NOT include support for FLAC in iTunes (it is THE most popular lossless file format - by a huge margin), and how come Apple (who claims to be "into music") doesn't offer lossless downloads on iTunes - even for a premium - or have a way to get bit-perfect output on their computers without BUYING an extra program (WASAPI in Windows may be hard to get to - but at least it is free)? I'm not picking on Apple, just pointing out that both Apples and PCs have serious benefits - and downsides. I do hate to pop any bubbles, but Apple owns only 14% of the desktop computer market at the moment (which is about 1/5 as much as PCs) - and the percentages for both continue to drop as tablets gain ground. Apple gets most of their revenue from iPhones, iPads, and iPods. PC's dominate the commercial market even more, because they have better security, and cause less problems when you (try) to connect them to a business network. Here are a few more (PC) tips... 1) No reason you would know - but the FREE version of AVG is a lot better than the paid one because it DOESN'T have all the extra crap features you don't need. You gotta look for the download, but it is still available, and still entirely free. Here's where you can download the full versions of the free one..... free.avg.com/us-en/download-free-all-product2) As for bloatware - I agree entirely. I always buy Dells because, if you buy them from the "Business Department", you can get them with no bloatware at all. Not only do the machines themselves not have bloatware installed, but the install discs - which you may need to reinstall Windows - also have no bloatware. I would definitely look for vendors (and stores) with similar options. There are insufficient words in the English language to truly express how awesomely CRAPPY PCs are. I use the adjective "awesomely" in it's traditional sense - inspiring of awe. I'm waiting on my 1.5-week-old Toshiba laptop to download a frigging printer driver, and I'm staring at a blank browser screen for over five minutes now. Before that, I had to close a half-dozen other browser windows trying to sell me junk that I don't want, don't need, and don't even want to see. The laptop has slowed to a crawl, won't even go to the sites you type into the browser, and now hangs repeatedly. 1.5 weeks old! Don't tell me I'm not running AV software either! I paid for and had remotely configured the FULL, PREMIUM version of AVG first thing after I brought the machine home. Yes, if you're a Windows whiz, you can make the OS jump. But for a person who just wants to do work - not master a lame, friggin' OS, this is a POS. There's a reason that Apple is now the largest company in the world. Their stuff works - which is more than I can say for this Win-8 abomination. And no, pop, I haven't even turned the sub on yet. I'm still fighting the POS music server computer! |
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Post by drtrey3 on Feb 11, 2014 11:51:04 GMT -5
Apple lost me with the "Apple II" forever lies. They had the big PR push, I bought an Apple II GS, then six months later they went all Mac. I have iPods, but that is all the Apple I will own. I bet I will carry that grudge to the grave!!!!!
Trey
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 11, 2014 12:16:03 GMT -5
No need to rehash the Apple vs. Windows thing here. I apologize for venting, I should have left it alone.
As to the new sub - Today, I try using some attenuators on the power-amp feeds to see if I can get the sub signal up enough to be recognized by the "auto-on" feature of the sub.
I'll report progress as it occurs.
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,256
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Post by KeithL on Feb 11, 2014 12:37:20 GMT -5
The only sense in further validating the experience would be if the result led to a lot of extra work or expense. Since WAV is THE most universally compatible format anyway, and the cost of the extra storage space WAV files require is trivial at most, I agree entirely. Even Apple folks can play WAV files, even on iTunes, but they have trouble with FLACs, and many non-Apple players don't necessarily handle AIFFs either. I really don't see a downside with WAV files. Some folks complain that WAV doesn't support fancy tags, but I've always been happy to simply use orderly names for the albums and tracks themselves.... So, if a file on my server drive is..... \Blue Oyster Cult\Agents of Fortune\03 - Don't Fear The Reaper.WAV it's pretty obvious what it is - with no tags whatsoever..... Actually, I will back-track a tiny bit there.... IF there were no difference due to the different file formats, BUT you did indeed hear a real and not imagined difference, then there would have to be some OTHER reason for what you heard, which might suggest that something else (good) happened during the conversion process (like something was altered by the converter program - in a good way) - and, if so, it would be worth knowing about.  I agree, KeithL - I put less weight on what I read than on what I hear. From a scientific standpoint, my hearing isn't too reliable, but from a personal frame of reference, it IS what matters to me. I heard a startling difference between that one AIFF file and the same file converted to WAV format. There's no sense extrapolating anything more from the experience. It may be unique. But I'm not going to look a gift horse (.wav file) in the mouth! If it sounds cleaner, more dynamic, and less distorted, then I'm good with it! It isn't worth running experiments to find out if it's consistent or if it was a unique set of factors - I don't care. Since I've gone "over to the dark side" (Windows) for my music server, all future rips will be to .wav format. |
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Post by monkumonku on Feb 11, 2014 13:37:14 GMT -5
Just curious, did you sub arrive yesterday or is it arriving (or has already) today?
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 11, 2014 17:24:18 GMT -5
My sub arrived around noon on Monday, 2/10, exactly as predicted by the FedEx tracker. Despite being a "Ground" shipment (with which I've previously had Monday delivery problems), the item arrived as promised.
Despite my best intentions, I've been too busy today to mess with it. Maybe this evening...
I did put some 12dB inline RCA attenuators between the Oppo & the XPR-2. Surprisingly, no hum at all! With the 12dB attenuators in the mains AND with the Oppo's trim for the sub set to +10dB, AND with the sub's plate amp gain pot turned all the way up, I'm now at least getting enough subwoofer signal to trigger the "auto-on" switch of the subwoofer. I played a frequency sweep before I left for an appointment with slightly disappointing results.
Although 20 Hz was very audible, and 25 very strongly audible, there was a slight dip around 40 Hz. before climbing the amplitude scale steadily on the march up to 100 Hz. This may be an artifact of sub positioning (sigh)... I'm still waiting to hear from ATS Acoustics on their recommendations for bass traps, diffusers, and absorber panels. Maybe I should have bought that second sub...
As I type this evening, I'm warming up the system to see how the sub/satellite balance stands with music. I may and may not be able, ultimately, to use the Oppo 105 as a preamp/bass crossover. The player was NOT intended as a stand-alone crossover but rather to send the analog 7.1 signals to a AV preamp or receiver. The sub output level of the Oppo is reduced by 15 decibels from the satellite signal (more if you're using the XLR outputs) to prevent clipping on strong movie LF tracks.
This would be fine if your AV preamp or receiver then had the LF gain to compensate, but doing this manually requires a LOT of kludges. So what say youse guys? Live with these kludges or spring for a XSP-1/XMC-1?
Again, I'm reluctant to add ANY more devices to the signal chain, but it may be a necessity...
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 11, 2014 19:18:00 GMT -5
That's the question of the hour... |
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Post by Gary Cook on Feb 11, 2014 19:29:04 GMT -5
This would be fine if your AV preamp or receiver then had the LF gain to compensate, but doing this manually requires a LOT of kludges. So what say youse guys? Live with these kludges or spring for a XSP-1/XMC-1? Again, I'm reluctant to add ANY more devices to the signal chain, but it may be a necessity... I have a little rule, "always have a decent stereo pre amp on hand". They are such useful things, solve many problems, provide otherwise unavailable options and, in general, come in handy. Cheers Gary |
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 11, 2014 19:31:59 GMT -5
Sigh... OK - I'll bust a move on one tomorrow.
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Post by pop on Feb 11, 2014 20:54:12 GMT -5
I think you have a handful of months to purchase a second with the full discount. Contact Tom about that. I would definitely get your source situation figured out first. Gain all the way up with that curve is just not right. Good luck Boom. I am excited for you to get it all worked out. Order the second one  |
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) I've known more than a few people who haven't been using ANY computer very much - and, to them, a Mac seems just as complicated as Windows. I agree that Windows 8 sucks; and Windows 8.1 sucks almost as badly (and most other PC users agree). Luckily you can still get a machine with Windows 7 on it if you look.
